Is Yamaha RX-V681 powerful enough? (1 Viewer)

[mjcmt]

I purchased a preowned Yamaha RX-V681 one month ago. It's only 90wpc into 2 channels.

I've tried it with my 99db Klipsch Forte and 86 db Dynaudio Emit10. Both speakers sound wonderful but different. I'm torn between them. I generally use the AVR up to -13 w/ the Klipsch and -8 w/ the Dynaudio.

The dialogue sometimes gets lost w/o a center. The Klipsch reveals the sound effects more competing w/ the dialogue, while the Dynaudio is warmer and fuller bodied but can muffle the vocals. With only 2.0 HT, movies music tracks can bury the vocal as well on both speakers.

Is the little rxv681 capable of also driving a 85 db Dynaudio center. The only sonic match to the Klipsch Forte's is the shorter Heresy so I'm not sure I can make it fit in our living room.


Here's a photo of both speakers in out room showing the relationship to each other and the room:

 

[Old Dog]

Why not consider something like a Klipsch RP440C / RP450C / RP404C / RP504C / RC64C centre speaker. Subject to table dimesions, one of those would surely fit on the stand underneath the tv. Should be a good match for the Fortes and being another efficient Klipsch design would mean quite an easy load for the 681. From your description regarding tone differences, I also think you will get greater satisfaction from the Klipsch speakers than from the Emit 10s in a HT set up.

 

[mjcmt]

Why not consider something like a Klipsch RP440C / RP450C / RP404C / RP504C / RC64C centre speaker. Subject to table dimesions, one of those would surely fit on the stand underneath the tv. Should be a good match for the Fortes and being another efficient Klipsch design would mean quite an easy load for the 681. From your description regarding tone differences, I also think you will get greater satisfaction from the Klipsch speakers than from the Emit 10s in a HT set up.

I already have Dynaudios and love its organic human sound. If you havent' lived with the Emit series you wouldn't know what I'm talking about. And it also sounds fantastic w/ my tube amp.
I almost purchased a Klipsch R52C center but the folks at Klipsch forum says non of the modern centers is a sonic match to their Heritage series. My Klipsch Forte is currently for sale to fund the Dynaudio Emit 25C center and a sub. But I still may try one of Klipsch modern centers used to give it a whirl.

 

[Old Dog]

Sounds like you want two systems - a tube amp for audio and a Yamaha 681 for HT, but use the same speakers?
My mains are 45 year old Yamahas. Like your Klipsch, there are no modern Yamaha centre speakers that could be considered a match for NS1000Ms. Initially I used a Klipsch RP440C centre, I felt it would be as close as I might get in tone the the beryllium mids and tweeters and although it was good, there was something not quite right. I managed to pick up an NS-C901, a centre from the much later Yamaha Soavo range, which has ultimately proven to be a good and thoroughly enjoyable match for the oldies. I doubt anyone would have thought it had I asked. I would say try it at least if you can.
I'm a tube fan too. Had mine for a good few years (35!) and still love 'em. Nothing persuaded me in this time to change. I keep my audio separate from HT too.

 

[mjcmt]

Old Dog, I have two complete systems in different room using different speakers. I switch between the Mystere tube amp and Rega amp in my music system.
My question is not about speakers but the capability of the rxv681 to adequately drive more than two 86db Dynaudio speakers. A center for the Fortes are in the back of my mind as an option reconfiguring the space w/ a Heresy as a center for 3.0. But I'm leaning toward the Dynaudio Emit series for HT.

 

[Old Dog]

It is so difficult to say anything for sure, but, in my opinion, the Yamaha is designed for 7 channels of which only three will be used. 90w into 2 channels (8 ohm) is not an insignificant amount, probably around 70wpc into 3. Undoubtedly, a higher volume and greater effect will be achievable using high efficiency Klipsch speakers, especially if in a larger room.
I believe the Mystere has 50wpc? I don't know what power the Rega has, but if it is similar and both these amplifiers and the 681 drive the Emits to your liking adding a third speaker to the 681 should be fine.
BTW, I have been through a very similar journey. I experimented initially with small standmounts (Tannoy Mercury, Wharfedale D220, even Spendor SA1). Some, relatively inefficient speakers (85 - 89dB), like your Dynaudios, and driven by a 50wpc Marantz amp driving 2 rears in addition. The problem wasn't power, it would go plenty loud enough, but clarity and getting a uniform sound from all speakers.

 

[mjcmt]

The problem wasn't power, it would go plenty loud enough, but clarity and getting a uniform sound from all speakers.

The reason all speakers have to be timber matched.

 

[Old Dog]

Yes indeed. In my years with HiFi I have accumulated a range of interconnect cables and I tweak mine by swapping the interconnects between receiver and power amps. It doesn't work for vastly different speakers of course. I couldn't do that with the Marantz revceiver, it didn't have pre-outs and is like your 681 in that respect.
You are looking at speakers from the same range (Emit) and a single amp, so no problem.

 

[Old Dog]

I was just taking a look at the 681 owners manual. Similar to some valve amplifiers (that have additional taps for different impedence speakers), the 681 has an adjustment for use with 6 ohm speakers (p23). You are probably aware, the Emits are 6 ohm speakers. Have you changed or tried changing the default setting to 6ohm when using the Emits? Did you notice any difference?

 

[mjcmt]

It's recommended to always use the 8 ohm setting because the 6 ohm restricts the amp so it won't over drive so it actually outputs less power as a self preservation. I've even used my 4ohm speakers w/ no ill effects. I'm only using 2 speakers so a suppose you just need to be adult about volume w/ more speakers but since I only plan on using for a 3.0 HT it probably doesn't matter.
Yamaha, like other manufactures, is vague about power rating output for 5 channels driver 20-20k. I suppose that's where separate power amps come in handy for demanding situations.

 

[Old Dog]

I agree totally in using the 8ohm setting. Any decent SS amp should not have any issue driving 6ohm speakers, hence why I don't think there will be an issue hooking up your 3 Emits. It may of course become a different matter if you were wanting to run 7, but being as Yamaha have this (unusual) built in feature to reduce the impedence setting, even that should not be an issue. The question then may well be, is there sufficient power?
I think it is very easy to get too tied up in specs. Don't get me wrong, when it comes to the power aspect they should not be ignored. People need to be aware and behave appropriately - be adult as you rightly say.
On the subject of power, I have two pairs of NS1000Ms (I just love them!). I bought the second pair a few years ago, because, well, nothing lasts forever. The first pair were purchased 41 years ago and, thinking a failure is increasingly likely, I bought a second pair when some decent examples came up. I didn't want to be in the situation of not having a working pair in my HiFi system. They are rated at 8ohm and 100w, but allegedly not the easieset of speakers to drive despite the figures. I drive one pair with 50w valve monoblocks, the other pair with 260w Quad SS monoblocks. I question whether anyone would know that one pair were being driven by amplifiers with 5x the power.
You have some really nice gear and I am curious how your amps compare. I haven't heard a Mystere, but being tube I am sure it is really nice. Rega make really good amps too, as does Yamaha. Without a doubt, though, they will all sound different. The Klipsch are also quite different animals to the Dynaudios, how do your amps compare when driving the same speakers?

 

[daddyora]

I'm using a RX-A660 avr with a 5.1.2 system, originally with Elac Debut 5.2 L/C/R. Works fine but I rarely go beyond -20. I needed dialogue help, old ears & damaged hearing, and wanted to replace the Elac cc with an SVS Ultra cc and the SVS can go down to around 4 ohms at times. No problems to date.

 

[Wardog555]

That rxv 681 is 7 channels so why would it not power more than 2 speakers?

 

[JohnRice]

What is "enough" power?

In my living room I have a 5.1 ELAC Debut 2 setup with an SVS SB-2000 and a Marantz SR7012 receiver, and it's just fine... for that room and how its used. The Debuts have moderate demands at 6 Ohm and 90ish dB sensitivity. In my HT I have much more demanding speakers, but I also crank it up as far as I want. In there I have 1Kw across the front, and speakers that can make use of it. If I only had the living room system, would I be unhappy? Hardly. Of course, if I used the Marantz receiver to drive the HT the way I like that system to be used, it would go up in flames, and I'd fry a lot of tweeters.

Most receivers are capable of driving most systems to a reasonable level. It's if you want to go beyond that and be able to play anything, with full dynamics, at whatever level you desire, when you "need" some serious power.

 

[mjcmt]

What is "enough" power?

In my living room I have a 5.1 ELAC Debut 2 setup with an SVS SB-2000 and a Marantz SR7012 receiver, and it's just fine... for that room and how its used. The Debuts have moderate demands at 6 Ohm and 90ish dB sensitivity. In my HT I have much more demanding speakers, but I also crank it up as far as I want. In there I have 1Kw across the front, and speakers that can make use of it. If I only had the living room system, would I be unhappy? Hardly. Of course, if I used the Marantz receiver to drive the HT the way I like that system to be used, it would go up in flames, and I'd fry a lot of tweeters.

Most receivers are capable of driving most systems to a reasonable level. It's if you want to go beyond that and be able to play anything, with full dynamics, at whatever level you desire, when you "need" some serious power.

My Dynaudio L/R only are 86 db and require a bit of power so adding a third may be pushing it.
I have no interest in 7 speakers in our townhome's living/dining area and I can't image my AVR driving 7 86db speakers to satisfying levels.
To add, I have no interest in not using the Dynaudio Emit speakers.