Is the b&w era of TV on DVD slowly coming to an end? (2 Viewers)

[Ed Lachmann]

Since forums like this one can and do influence those who have the power to obtain and release classic television shows, I'd like to throw a couple more "guilty pleasures" into the mix and see if anyone agrees: BACHELOR FATHER, PEOPLE'S CHOICE, RUN FOR YOUR LIFE, GRINDLE, PETE AND GLADYS, MISTER ADAM AND EVE and the complete THIRD MAN.

 

[Gary OS]

I'd be in for Bachelor Father at a minimum, and I'd have some interest in all the others to one degree or another.
Gary "speaking of 'freedom of choice', I'm just glad I have the freedom to use the 'ignore' function when I want to - and right now I definitely want to so I'm using it" O.

 

[Flashgear]

I don't remember seeing Tombstone Territory in reruns at all, but am thinking of pre-ordering it...for those in the know, did they do any location shooting for this series in Az?...I'd be far more interested in it if they did...that's one of the reasons that Rawhide is one of my all time favourites...

 

[Richard V]

I don't remember seeing Tombstone Territory in reruns at all, but am thinking of pre-ordering it...for those in the know, did they do any location shooting for this series in Az?...I'd be far more interested in it if they did...that's one of the reasons that Rawhide is one of my all time favourites...

I've have several episodes, and from the ones I've watched, it seems that most of the shooting was done on sets.

 

[Richard V]

Since forums like this one can and do influence those who have the power to obtain and release classic television shows, I'd like to throw a couple more "guilty pleasures" into the mix and see if anyone agrees: BACHELOR FATHER, PEOPLE'S CHOICE, RUN FOR YOUR LIFE, GRINDLE, PETE AND GLADYS, MISTER ADAM AND EVE and the complete THIRD MAN.

I'd be in Run for Your Life, Pete and Gladys, and The People's Choice. From what I've read, there do not seem to be any elements Mister Adam and Eve still in existence, of course I could be wrong.

 

[Gary OS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flashgear
I don't remember seeing Tombstone Territory in reruns at all, but am thinking of pre-ordering it...for those in the know, did they do any location shooting for this series in Az?...I'd be far more interested in it if they did...that's one of the reasons that Rawhide is one of my all time favourites...

If what Richard said is true, and most of the shots are on set, it would be an unfortunate departure from the norm of most ZIV shows. One of the things I always enjoyed about them is that they shot a good bit outdoors. I was hoping that would be the norm for Tombstone Territory as well, Randell. Like you, this is a big plus for a series like Rawhide and adds immensely to my enjoyment of any show in that genre. When a western is shot primarily on a set it often tends to create a very claustrophobic and distinctly artificial feel for me. I find myself being taken out of the moment when I can see that the background is really just a painted wall, whether it be out in the "open" or in a "town." I hate being able to tell that the camera must cut away before the horse comes to the end of the set because there isn't really a road leading out of town.
Gary "just a little quirk of mine" O.

 

[Flashgear]

Thank you Richard and Gary for your input, I appreciate it very much! IMDB lists the usual Bronson Canyon and Iversen Ranch locals as having been used for Tombstone Territory...I just love the extra cinematic dimension that location work farther afield can bring to a show like Rawhide...the Nogales area, Tucson...I can never forget seeing the Casa Grande ruins, Oro valley, Santa Rita mountains, Cochise stronghold canyon...and those opening shots in "Incident at Alabaster plain" where you see Mission San Xavier del Bac, the white dove of the desert...wow, and shooting there in the heat in the summers of '58 and 1959 give such an authenticity to the dusty and sweaty look of the cast..."Incident of the Druid curse" is one of my favourite episodes with the climatic shootout at Casa Grande ruins...an allready atmospheric episode is only enhanced by the location work...when I last went there I was probably the only one thinking of Clint Eastwood, Eric Fleming and Claude Akins trading lead among the ancient brick and adobe... I think I'll pre-order Tombstone Territory just on spec...seeing as it's a ZIV show that Timeless is bringing out, and I want to support them as much as possible...and in thanks too for the imminent release of Stoney Burke...and, by association, Shout! Factory for Dobie Gillis! I sure hope we see Science Fiction Theater and Men in Space as well...

 

[Gary OS]

Wow Randell, you really know your Rawhide location shooting! And I'm with you all the way in those descriptors. I love HGWT for the same reason. Many of the Bend, Oregon scenes are just beautiful and really add to my viewing enjoyment. Compare this with some well known westerns that almost exclusively film on "Stage fill in the blank" and it just looses something. At least it does for me.
Gary "thanks again, Randell, for sharing your experiences visiting some of those great places" O.

 

[Flashgear]

Wow Randell, you really know your Rawhide location shooting!  And I'm with you all the way in those descriptors.  I love HGWT for the same reason.  Many of the Bend, Oregon scenes are just beautiful and really add to my viewing enjoyment.  Compare this with some well known westerns that almost exclusively film on "Stage fill in the blank" and it just looses something.  At least it does for me. Gary "thanks again, Randell, for sharing your experiences visiting some of those great places" O.

Thank you Gary, I'm sure a lot of us feel the same way about westerns...whether it be a TV series or a big screen, big budget feature film...studio back lots and sound stage certainly have their place, and those used at CBS studio city must have been enormous!...some shows seemed to follow a trend of having less and less farther afield location shooting as they went along from season to season, the ratings sucess of some shows and the growing celebrity influence of the cast becoming stars and wanting to be more comfortable with a short commute to Universal, Paramount, WB and MGM...and tight fisted producers squeezing every buck out of production costs to pay growing contract salaries for those stars, and their own naked greed as the magic syndication numbers loomed...all understandable up to a point, but harder to take when they wouldn't venture as far as Lone Pine and the Mojave to give their cheap looking show some grander scale...HGWT and Rawhide sure benefit from having more than Bronson Canyon, Griffith Park, Iverson Ranch and Vasquez Rocks in every outdoor shot... Combat! is one of my all time favourite shows, but I struggle to ignore all the obvious California hills scrub country at times, ha, ha...but that show also sent a second unit to the Loire Valley of France to obtain beautiful Chateau footage to great effect and performed virtual miracles sometimes in finding LA area sites to convincingly transport us to a "Normandy" battlefront...sometimes it just came down to a resourceful, creative and determined director and production company...Route 66, of course, represents the gold standard for such achievments in weekly TV series from that era...amazing!

 

[JoeDoakes]

Thank you Gary, I'm sure a lot of us feel the same way about westerns...whether it be a TV series or a big screen, big budget feature film...studio back lots and sound stage certainly have their place, and those used at CBS studio city must have been enormous!...some shows seemed to follow a trend of having less and less farther afield location shooting as they went along from season to season, the ratings sucess of some shows and the growing celebrity influence of the cast becoming stars and wanting to be more comfortable with a short commute to Universal, Paramount, WB and MGM...and tight fisted producers squeezing every buck out of production costs to pay growing contract salaries for those stars, and their own naked greed as the magic syndication numbers loomed...all understandable up to a point, but harder to take when they wouldn't venture as far as Lone Pine and the Mojave to give their cheap looking show some grander scale...HGWT and Rawhide sure benefit from having more than Bronson Canyon, Griffith Park, Iverson Ranch and Vasquez Rocks in every outdoor shot... Combat! is one of my all time favourite shows, but I struggle to ignore all the obvious California hills scrub country at times, ha, ha...but that show also sent a second unit to the Loire Valley of France to obtain beautiful Chateau footage to great effect and performed virtual miracles sometimes in finding LA area sites to convincingly transport us to a "Normandy" battlefront...sometimes it just came down to a resourceful, creative and determined director and production company...Route 66, of course, represents the gold standard for such achievments in weekly TV series from that era...amazing!

When I was LA I went to Griffith Park hoping to see the area I remember from the Beverly Hillbillies. It was only after I got there that I realized that they did not film the Griffith Park scenes in Griffith Park. I later figured out (I think) that they filmed them at the reservoir where they shot the beginning of TAGS.

 

[Ron1973]

When I was LA I went to Griffith Park hoping to see the area I remember from the Beverly Hillbillies. It was only after I got there that I realized that they did not film the Griffith Park scenes in Griffith Park. I later figured out (I think) that they filmed them at the reservoir where they shot the beginning of TAGS.

I'll never forget Granny telling the cops that she was going to the lake to smoke some crawdads but first she needed a little pot! A bit of historical trivia: in the "Robin Hood" episode where they're out looking for Jethro, one of the cops is played by Victor French of "Little House" fame.

 

[Gary OS]

Good stuff, guys! We've got some very knowledgeable and passionate fans of b/w TV on this board. I think you nailed your summary (post #1311), Randall. I see it the same way you do. Gary "I've been to Griffith Park as well trying to find the same areas Ray mentioned" O.

 

[Richard V]

Wow Randell, you really know your Rawhide location shooting!  And I'm with you all the way in those descriptors.  I love HGWT for the same reason.  Many of the Bend, Oregon scenes are just beautiful and really add to my viewing enjoyment.  Compare this with some well known westerns that almost exclusively film on "Stage fill in the blank" and it just looses something.  At least it does for me. Gary "thanks again, Randell, for sharing your experiences visiting some of those great places" O.

I think that both of you are right that on location shooting of TV Westerns does add a sense of realism and "being there", but there are a couple of "set shot" westerns that I just absolutely love, The Rifleman and Maverick. But both those shows were REALLY character driven stories, where the background is of secondary importance to the people. Perhaps that is why I never really got into Bonanza, until they started shooting more on location.

 

[Richard V]

B]Route 66[/B], of course, represents the gold standard for such achievments in weekly TV series from that era...amazing!

Without the on location, I'm sure I would have never found Route 66 as fascinating a show, despite the top notch writing and acting.

 

[Gary OS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard V
I think that both of you are right that on location shooting of TV Westerns does add a sense of realism and "being there", but there are a couple of "set shot" westerns that I just absolutely love, The Rifleman and Maverick. But both those shows were REALLY character driven stories, where the background is of secondary importance to the people. Perhaps that is why I never really got into Bonanza, until they started shooting more on location.

It's funny you said that, Richard. I've always loved The Rifleman (and still do), but I've also felt like it would have been even that much better had it been shot on location and outdoors more. For me it really does suffer when they have a scene in North Folk and I can so clearly see the painted stage wall. It just takes me out of the moment every time. I love the show, but hate that it was filmed on stage so much. I'm sure that phenomenon is why I've always eschewed the WB westerns for the CBS ones. Character driven or not, for me nothing can beat the feel of those series that moved around and shot outdoors. Bonanza definitely had that artificial feel to it and that's surely a part of the reason it's not among my top favorite westerns. But that's only my opinion. I certainly respect what you are saying and I know for many fans what I'm talking about doesn't make much of a difference.
Gary "suum cuique pulchrum est" O.

 

[Gary OS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard V
Without the on location, I'm sure I would have never found Route 66 as fascinating a show, despite the top notch writing and acting.

There you go! Great example!!
Gary "there are a lot of shows that would have decreased significantly in viewing pleasure for me if they hadn't been shot on location" O.

 

[BobO'Link]

     Quote:

I think that both of you are right that on location shooting of TV Westerns does add a sense of realism and "being there", but there are a couple of "set shot" westerns that I just absolutely love, The Rifleman and Maverick. But both those shows were REALLY character driven stories, where the background is of secondary importance to the people. Perhaps that is why I never really got into Bonanza, until they started shooting more on location.

It's funny you said that, Richard.  I've always loved The Rifleman (and still do), but I've also felt like it would have been even that much better had it been shot on location and outdoors more.  For me it really does suffer when they have a scene in North Folk and I can so clearly see the painted stage wall.  It just takes me out of the moment every time.  I love the show, but hate that it was filmed on stage so much.  I'm sure that phenomenon is why I've always eschewed the WB westerns for the CBS ones.  Character driven or not, for me nothing can beat the feel of those series that moved around and shot outdoors.  Bonanza definitely had that artificial feel to it and that's surely a part of the reason it's not among my top favorite westerns.  But that's only my opinion.  I certainly respect what you are saying and I know for many fans what I'm talking about doesn't make much of a difference. Gary "suum cuique pulchrum est" O.

Maverick is one of my all time favorite westerns and one where the "outdoor" sets don't bother me too much because the stories are so good you really don't notice or pay much attention to them. I loved The Rifleman as a kid but haven't seen any episodes in decades so I really don't have an opinion on that one... yet... I agree on the artificial feel of Bonanza. While over the years the show has grown on me and I generally enjoy episodes I watch those fake looking outdoor sets take me out of the show almost every time. In spite of that the show looks *great* on DVD (at least the hand full of episodes I've seen so far).

 

[Gary OS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobO'Link
Maverick is one of my all time favorite westerns and one where the "outdoor" sets don't bother me too much because the stories are so good you really don't notice or pay much attention to them. I loved The Rifleman as a kid but haven't seen any episodes in decades so I really don't have an opinion on that one... yet... I agree on the artificial feel of Bonanza. While over the years the show has grown on me and I generally enjoy episodes I watch those fake looking outdoor sets take me out of the show almost every time. In spite of that the show looks *great* on DVD (at least the hand full of episodes I've seen so far).

I have to wonder if those westerns that are in color and make use of stage settings are in a worse spot than those filmed in b/w. It's just so hard to "fake" an outdoor setting when things are in color. At least with b/w it's not quite as noticeable.
Gary "I think of all the big time westerns, Bonanza is the one that suffers the most from the 'artificial feel' created by stage/set filming" O.

 

[Ron Lee Green]

I watched a lot of Wagon Train, and I was impressed with all the locations and the authenticity with the stagecoaches, and I wonder how they did it back then While not a Western, I just watched a couple of episodes of The Twilight Zone and the outdoor location work was beautiful. I specifically talking about the two episodes shot at Death Valley because they resembled another planet.: The Lonely and I shot an Arrow into the Air. But normally they would shoot on sets and that really doesn't bother me much probably because it is a supernatural-type show and it adds to the spooky atmosphere.

 

[TravisR]

While not a Western, I just watched a couple of episodes of The Twilight Zone and the outdoor location work was beautiful. I specifically talking about the two episodes shot at Death Valley because they resembled another planet.: The Lonely and I shot an Arrow into the Air. But normally they would shoot on sets and that really doesn't bother me much probably because it is a supernatural-type show and it adds to the spooky atmosphere.

It wasn't shot in Death Valley but A Hundred Yards Over The Rim is another TZ episode that has a great look thanks to clearly being out on location rather than a set or backlot.