Is anyone planning on moving to Windows XP?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Rob Gillespie, Aug 15, 2001.

  1. Rob Gillespie

    Rob Gillespie Producer

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    I'd like to have a copy to play around with, but from what I've heard (as opposed to seen, which is very little) I think I'll be sticking with 2000 Pro. The activation process - which has turned out to be less abrasive than first though but still a PITA - coupled with rumours of limitations on MP3 and the fact that that the RC2 build still peforms slower than 2K make me wonder exactly what Microsoft are pinning their hopes on.
    The impression I get of XP, with all it's colourful fluffiness is that it's 'Windows for Dummies'.
    Discuss! [​IMG]
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  2. Dean DeMass

    Dean DeMass Screenwriter

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    Rob,
    I for one will be sticking to Win 2000 and 98. I don't like the fact that one copy of XP can be used on only one PC in your house. If I spend the $100+ on an upgrade to an OS I have already paid for many times over (95, 98, 2000) I want to put the damn thing on all my PCs in my house, which is only 2.
    -Dean-
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  3. Rob Gillespie

    Rob Gillespie Producer

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    My thoughts exactly. On my main box I run 98, 2000 Pro and Mandrake Linux (which I'm not that impressed with, but I digress). I've just built a second machine from bits I've gathered on Ebay (except that I trashed the BIOS, more on that later!) which has 98, 2K and will soon have Slackware on it. I might put a demo of XP on there too.
    I know the existing licences for Windows say you can only use it on one machine, but who in reality is going to buy two copies of an OS to use on your own machines? No way, Jose.
     
  4. Glenn Overholt

    Glenn Overholt Producer

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    I am passing on this one. I have had every version (and that includes Windows 1), but they have blown it this time, big time.
    I know that things do change, but years ago they announced that by the year 2K, the basic OS for NT and Windows would be the same. They still have not done that. They should have one package for the basic OS. One that will work on both personal (windows) and business (2K) systems. A second package would include the accessories. A third for a five PC license, and a fourth for busineses.
    I just know that the home version of XP is not going to be as stable as the 2k/NT systems. There are going to be the same problems as we have had in ME, 98, 95, etc.
    Even aside from this though, there is the registration. From what I have read, after you load it up you will register it, or in 30 days it won't work. If you put it on a second machine, as we all know, the registration numbers will be the same. I haven't read about the consequences of that, and I don't want to! [​IMG]
    For those of us that like to tweak our PC's, changing certain hardware will send a red flag to MS, and we will have to call them and explain that it is the same machine, but we just changed certain parts in it.
    If/when the breakup occurs, I guess that the accessories will be sold by a different company, but if you think that the breakup is a good thing, think again. After ten years they can legally get back together, and if think that they are big now.......
    Glenn
     
  5. RicP

    RicP Screenwriter

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    Just a correction here..
    XP will allow you TWO installs from One Disc. In other words you are allowed to install a copy of XP on your desktop AND your laptop. This is ok under the registration.
    However, the wide scale copying and installing of a single disc will no longer be allowed.
    I've been running RC2 for a little bit and it's fairly good, but I wont be removing Win2K from my primary machine just yet. [​IMG]
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  6. Chris Mannes

    Chris Mannes Stunt Coordinator

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    Just a couple quick comments for Glenn.
    Both WinXP Home & WinXP Professional are based off of the Win2k kernal. Therefore on a clean install on identical machines, they will exhibit the exact same stability.
    Differences between the two are listed at
    http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/guide/comparison.asp
    As for Activation. Currently it's been painless. I have home running on one PC and Professional on another. I activated each over the net and both are using the same key. No fuss no muss.
    For those who are curious, the WinXP Home machine is a
    K6-2 300Mhz, with 256MB of ram, a 13GB HD, a Matrox Millennium Video Card, and a Sound Blaster 16. Everything worked fine Out-Of-Box.
    The Professional Machine is a Duron 933Mhz (overclocked),with 768MB of ram, a GeForce3, a Creative SBlive card. and about 54GB of HD space. Again, everything worked fine out-of-box.
    Admittedly I did change the geforce3 driver, because the windows default driver doesn't support opengl.
    I believe that WPA isn't truly targeted at those of us running 2 pc's, or 3 pc's. Rather it's aimed at those businesses running 200-300 copies of Windows off of one CD.
     
  7. Steven K

    Steven K Supporting Actor

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    I've been toying around with Windows XP (and before that, "Whistler") for a few months here at work. Luckily, we are subscribers to the complete MSDN collection (every product that Microsoft makes, we have) and as such, our version of XP doesn't have the annoying "anti-piracy" measures installed.
    Needless to say, I have been less than impressed. The system requirements are so absurd. 128 MB RAM minimum (which isn't a problem, but its such a drastic change from 2K and NT) and it runs slow. I installed the debug build, but that was pointless (doesn't supply much extra info).
    Why Microsoft is calling it "XP" is beyond me... why not "NT version 6." But its a classic case of Microsoft bastardizing the naming process. First we have Windows 95 (based on the old Win16 kernel). Then we have Windows 98, which is an upgrade from Windows 95 (same kernel).
    As a completely seperate product, we have Windows NT 3.51 (and the NT kernel). Then, NT 4. Now, what makes more sense... Windows 2000 being an upgrade for Windows 98 (and thus following the existing product line name: 95, 98, 2000), or Windows 2000 being an upgrade for NT. So, the upgrade for Windows 98 is now called Windows ME. Complete confusion for the masses. How many people went out and bought Windows 2000 thinking it was an upgrade from 98,only to find out the it was, in fact, a completely different OS? Too many.
    Thank you Microsoft.
    Oh yeah, back to XP. I'll be sticking to Win2K (which is an incredible OS in my opinion). My work computer has NT 4 (SP 6), Win2K, Debian Linux, Redhat Linux, and x86 Solaris (need these for work). At home I run Win2K, with a small partition for Win98 (unfortunately, I need Win98, as there are no Win2K drivers for my digital camera).
     
  8. SteveBjr

    SteveBjr Stunt Coordinator

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    I'm with you on this one Rob. I think it's ridiculous only being able to install it on one machine (or 2 machines? according to a previous post). I've heard that if you upgrade components in your computer that you will have to call microsoft to enable XP to work again on your computer. Sounds like a little too much hassle to me since i'm constantly tinkering and upgrading my maching.
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  9. Glenn Overholt

    Glenn Overholt Producer

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    Chris - but that is the whole idea. They are still different. If I desire better security and manageability, XP won't do it, and the price of 2K is a little bit higher, especially when I wouldn't be able to buy an upgrade, I'd have to get the full version. Yuck!
    Glenn
     
  10. Steven K

    Steven K Supporting Actor

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    Not to mention the rumors that the final version of XP will not include Microsoft's Virtual Machine. It seems that Microsoft is attempting to do away with Java completely (well, that's old news) and trying to get everyone to switch over to .NET ...
     
  11. Chris Mannes

    Chris Mannes Stunt Coordinator

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    Just some more comments.
    Steven K: If you downloaded the debug version of course it's slow. In fact typically when you dl the debug version it says 'This will run slower.' Because it's the debug version. It's doing a lot of extra work, to assist in debugging.
    As for RAM. That's very true. If you use 256 as opposed to 128 there is a definite performance increase.
    As for the Name. It's all about marketing. Call it Windows 5.00.2600 if you like. (Assuming that's the RTM Build number.)
    WPA & Upgrading: You actually have to change more than just a single component. In fact I read a review where a person swapped out his CPU & Motherboard, and it didn't ask him to re-activate.
    Better Security: WinXP Home lacks Access Control, Encrypting File System, and Group Policy's. Otherwise WinXP Home & WinXP Professional have the same (or better) security than Win2k. I say better, because WinXP comes with a built in firewall. Not as good as ZoneAlarm, but definitely better than nothing.
    JVM doesn't ship with IE. But when you open a web-page needing JVM, IE directs you to WindowsUpdate. Same as if you visit a page that needs Flash, or Beatnik, or Director.
    .NET info is at http://www.microsoft.com/net/whatis.asp
    Chris M.
     
  12. Rob Gillespie

    Rob Gillespie Producer

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    Would it be possible to install XP on several machines if they all had exactly the same hardware spec?
     
  13. Chris Mannes

    Chris Mannes Stunt Coordinator

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    On installing XP on multiple machines.
    Okay I'll admit this is conjecture.
    But if you are a 'typical' home user, and you want to install XP on two machines. (or three or maybe even four)
    I believe it would work just fine. Even with the WPA.
    Now I could be wrong. I've not tried it myself. Not to mention the fact that the final version isn't even out yet.
    My reasoning is: Microsoft isn't trying to 'screw' the 'typical-home-user' Because the 'typical-home-user' isn't their major source of income.
    Microsoft wants to get those businesses that run 1 copy of win98 on 100-1000 computers. That's where the money is.
    Therefore WPA is going to watch as 1,000,000 people install Windows. If 2 out of 1,000,000 are the same copy and are on different computers, I think WPA will ignore it.
    But if 1,000 out of 1,000,000 are the same copy on different computers, a red flag is going to go up.
    Again, this is just conjecture, based on beta builds of Windows XP.
    I guess the best answer is either 1) Try it, and see what happens. or 2) Wait until someone else does.
     
  14. RicP

    RicP Screenwriter

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  15. Steven K

    Steven K Supporting Actor

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    Right on about the NIC deal... each card's MAC address would cause it to have a different hardware ID, even if everything else in the system was identical (or, if it was a P3, I think the Serial # on the chip affects a HW ID as well). This is how Microsoft ensures that each GUID is totally unique. When you run GUIDGEN (but then again, how many people have the need to run GUIDGEN except crazy WinAPI programmers!) it checks various settings, of course one of them is the MAC address of a network card.
    Regarding the debug version running slower, well of course it's going to run slower... but it ran significantly slower than my debug vesion of Win2K. XP looks like a shotty deal, and at this point, there is no reason to upgrade. Windows 2000 is a fantastic operating system, and fairly new. Why the sudden rush by Microsoft to come out with XP then? It's all about totally eliminating the competition (like Sun).
     
  16. Rob Gillespie

    Rob Gillespie Producer

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    OK, so if you didn't use a network card and didn't use a hard drive and didn't use a processor it would work pretty well then.
    Cool, I'm buyin! [​IMG]
     
  17. brian a

    brian a Second Unit

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    I think it's funny that you can't even discuss DVD piracy on the forum, but everyone seems to be up in arms that microsoft is trying to enforce the license agreement that you accept when you install their software. I'm fuzzy on the difference. [​IMG]
    brianca...
     
  18. Steven K

    Steven K Supporting Actor

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    Brian,
    My biggest gripe is with the fact that you have to reregister the product when you make a hardware update. It's a pain in the ass, it takes up alot of valuable time, and it's intrusive. It's not an issue of being able to pirate something.
    I'm not sure if you work with computers much, but I do. I'm constantly switching out hardware components for various tasks (I work with new Dialogic boards almost every day). In fact, my system at work doesn't even have a cover on it half the time. In my case, Im lucky enough to have an OEM type version that doesn't have the obtrusive hardware checking within it. However, for others, this is a big mess. If I had to do this, I would be calling Microsoft at least twice a day trying to get a new Registration number. How much time in my day does that waste?
     
  19. Rob Gillespie

    Rob Gillespie Producer

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    Brian, I may be mistaken on this point, but I don't believe breaking Microsoft's agreement is a criminal act. It's not like burning copies off and giving or selling them.
     
  20. Chris Mannes

    Chris Mannes Stunt Coordinator

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    Steven K:
    Actually it only checks certain hardware, HD, Network Card, CD-ROM, Video Card, CPU, SCSI Host, IDE Controller, and Ram I believe. There's more information at
    http://www.licenturion.com/xp/fully-licensed-wpa.txt (Very Technical Paper on how WPA Works)
    Secondly you have to change a total of 3 items to trigger the re-activation.
    So if you swap your Video Card. That's 1.
    Then the next day you swap your Video Card again. That's still just 1.
    But if on Tuesday you swap your Video Card, CPU, and Network Card. That's three.
    Now if you Swap your video card today, your cpu tomorrow and your network card the next day.... I have no idea.
    As for the duration of activation. You DO NOT have to register with Microsoft. That's optional. Activation over the net (via my DSL connection) takes about 30 seconds. My interaction is reduced to clicking 'yes please activate' and then clicking 'Done' when it says it's done.
    And as for the legality of using XP on more than one computer. I'm of the opinion that if they are your computers and it is your copy of XP. Knock yourself out.
    Just don't share your copy of XP with your friends. They didn't buy it. You did. (hopefully)
     

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