In Line Surge Supressor (1 Viewer)

[Jay_Leonard]

Bill,

please come back with more detail if you are referring to surge protector(s) for all of your gear. Typically the gear electric cord goes into one of these power centers, which goes into the wall outlet.(feel free to start a new thread in Tweaks if this veers to surge protectors; email to me is fine, too, but others like to read the posts).

I think what I was wondering was if since this is a dedicated circut is it possible to hard wire any of these products (surge protectors) prior to the outlets?

There are a known number of appliances and the load is easy to figure.

If all else fails I could terminate the circut in the basement and put a plug on the end of the 12-2 going to the wall unit.

your

 

[Bill Kane]

Jay,

I appreciate that you are trying to do a custom job for your home theater. When you talk about the basement -- is that where the HT is, or just where the 120V dedication circuits pass thru to somewhere else upstairs? BTW to confirm, since you wired 12/2 this is a 20A circuit.

If all else fails I could terminate the circut in the basement and put a plug on the end of the 12-2 going to the wall unit

I dont understand what you're getting at here...

Where I'm coming from is advocating the consumer-level Panamax/Monster type rack units with 7 to 12 plug-in outlets and other features you might find useful in hooking up your system. The goal is prudent surge/spike protection for our expensive HT equipment, including TV, satellite, cabletv and DSS tel wire runs.

There is much to read on surge protectors in this Tweaks forum. I mean this to be helpful, cuz I've posted so much recently on this topic I'm getting burned out and dont wanta be the only resident "expert."

Keep at it here, and I'm sure we all can help you further...

Wayne? Chu?

bill

 

[Chu Gai]

Perhaps he's asking if in lieu of a wall outlet one could run the romex directly to the surge protector? If so, I do believe there are products that allow one to do that.

 

[Jay_Leonard]

Right,

Bill your response is wonderfull, and yes it is a 20 amp circut.
Chu, Is correct, but let me elaborate,

I live in a 100 year New England nightmare of a home that I have rebuilt mostly from scratch. The last room in the house to do is our living room (now theater living room). I built a wall unit and put plenty of outlets in the wall to avoid extra wires in the back. I Figured that I would be able to find a a surge suppressor to put in line between the wall unit (First floor living room) and the panel. One of the reasons for this is space. I did not want the "Rack of sound" look, I did that in my dorm days, and space was a major consideration.

Is there a difference between 9-10 things plugged into one circut that terminates as one plug in a stand alone surge suppressor, and the same 9-10 things plugged directly into the same suppressor?

I will get some pix of the room one of these days. It is comming out very nicely.

Thanks,

J

 

[Bill Kane]

Jay,

Is there a difference between 9-10 things plugged into one circut that terminates as one plug in a stand alone surge suppressor, and the same 9-10 things plugged directly into the same suppressor?

Your idea seems quite sound, electrically, tho it's an application I haven't had to research. Seems like more of an industrial type approach.
The standalone surge suppressors are marketed for the masses who want one convenient box to plug everything into since they have at the most 2-3 wall outlets in non-customized living rooms or family rooms used for HT.
So you are saying you are installing enough wall outlets behind your wall unit to handle all the plug-ins for your HT gear individually. Then out of sight heading back to the breaker box wire in the surge suppressor. Sure.
I might look for something that's rated to handle 2400watts on one 20A circuit, where the code safety limit actually is 1920watts. Also, nearly all standard consumer surge units come with an AC line noise filter for RF/EMI and I'd hate to give up that feature; that's about as much "conditioning" as you'll need, if you're not an audiophile
In looking for an industrial grade protector certainly it should be U.L. 1449 Listed to withstand surge/spikes to UL's testing standard. If you anticipate lightning in the neighborhood, that will be another consideration for how robust a unit you select.
Not to carry this to an extreme, but for $200 or so, you can have installed a whole house surge protector on the mains, but still wire in the "industrial" surge protector on the HT circuit. I'll look around, and perhaps Chu Gai knows of some of this type.
Here's a START Give ZeroSurge a call.
All of this is virtually useless unless your incoming coax and tel wire for DSS is protected as well. Here's a $25 Belkin for THIS
bill

 

[Chu Gai]

Why aren't Norm and Bob Villa fielding this question? Let's see, you've got this wall that maybe has something like 5 outlets, possibly even somewhat closely spaced(?) against which the wall unit will go. In this wall unit will go your audio system. But now you're starting to think surge suppression and you're wondering if you can still rig it up so that each component still gets its' outlet but that behind the scenes, perhaps in the basement, you've set it up so that these outlets and perhaps anything else on that dedicated 20 amp line is protected shall we say invisibly? Let me know if this correct and how much money you're thinking of. You doing electrical work yourself too with the subsequent approval of the building inspector? Need coffee

 

[Jay_Leonard]

We are on the same page,

( I already had my coffee )

Actually there are 2, three gang boxes with a total of 5 duplex recepticals (10 outlets). the sixth spot in the gang box is where I have the Cat 5 outlet for the phone line and my Sub.
Due to pre existing conditions, the cabinet is only 20" deep.

Norm would rebuild the house and be smart enough to sub out the electrical to someone that would do the work for free!

I will spend what I need to to have it done correctly. I will do the work, I am not an electrician but I play one on the weekends. I prefer to do my work to code but there may be no inspection.

J

 

[Chu Gai]

So I am correct in then assuming that given the existing setup, the surge protector will be in the basement, or otherwise not seen...bear with me, i want to give you an answer that is at least the best as I know it. While not necessarily germaine to this thread, is the wall unit built-in i.e. a permanent fixture that is recessed so to speak. This implies it's not something that lends itself to being moved around.

 

[Jay_Leonard]

You are correct on both counts.

The Wall unit is an expanded closet which puts my 50H81 on a 10ish inch platform slightly off center in the room, above the TV is a 3/4 in ply shelf for the Center speaker Newton MC500) and receivers (one reciever (797)for the theater and another (old Kenwood Pro logic)for my great-room/kitchen two sets of speakers with a sub wired in a wall), on the right of the TV is a floor to ceiling opening that when finishes will comprise two shelves for components and three drawers for cds and the like. My intention is to then make Grills for the speaker opening (tom) and bottom half of the TV and put doors with matching drawers on the right.

The wireing goes through the wall into the basement and over to the panel. as it turns out the phone and cable come in in the same area.

J

 

[Chu Gai]

OK...this is my opinion on what would make sense for 'me'. I'm going to arbitrarily divide surge protectors into two camps: MOV and Non-MOV. While both camps typically provide some sort of indicator light to indicate if the unit is operating properly (hasn't lost its ability to handle a surge) the fact that it will be mounted in the basement means you'll be trusting it to work. Maybe every now and then you'll go down to the basement and give it a glance but most of being what we are, those glances will become less frequent. Assuming you've read the other posts in this particular forum you've a general idea of these devices. While one can find products in both camps that are UL1449 listed, only those Non-MOV units are able to meet the optional parts of UL1499 in what is called Federal 1 guidelines. These offer the ultimate protection.
SurgeX provides such a hardwired unit which will handle your 20 amp line and retails for $479. I believe you can order directly from them but calling will confirm that as well as if there are any other places to pick it up. A little more information can be found here.
Is this your only choice? I don't know. One thing I'd do is read up on these type of non-mov devices at surgex and then take a trip down to my local electric store and ask if they carry something like this. It wouldn't surprise me if there are OEM versions like this out there at possibly better price points.
I hope this helped.

 

[Bill Kane]

Chu, nice response.

I'll just observe that SurgeX appears to be quite a bit more costly than comparable units. But your link shows a certainly solid wall box installation.

Jay, my link to ZeroSurge taps, I believe, the originator of this non-MOV or Series Mode technology, and their pricing and panel box availability is worth checking out. They provide a fone number.

OK, I checked this out this morning with "Peter" at ZeroSurge.

Their wall panel mount is 20amp (better safety margin): the ZeroSurge PM20-120 for $215; great price. Peter said his company wud have to fabricate the order, but these units are in stock at Allied Electronics at 800-433-5700.

Peter confirmed SurgeX is a licensee and sets their own pricing schedule.

bill

 

[Jay_Leonard]

I am overwhelmed with information.
I called Zerosurge and have been diligently reading the information you both linked me to. I was trying to understand what the Surge X did that the Zero surge does not (big difference in Bread). In my discussion with zerosurge I asked about RF specifically and he said that the unit filters RF effectively ((bi-directional,wave tracking):With 50 ohm Rgen,load:3 dB @7 kHz;26 dB @100
kHz;38 dB@300 kHz.) I have no idea what that means but it does it.
I think I am going to install a panel box (they call it a NEMA enclosure) next to my house panel.
He provided a number Allied electronics 800.433.5700 and they sell this unit for $210.00
http://www.zerosurge.com/PDF/Pm20_120.pdf
cool beans.
Let me know wht you think. . .
J

 

[Chu Gai]

I'd not priced the ZeroSurge so good call by Bill! I would have to say that you've got a kick-ass unit and its gonna buy you some serious peace of mind. Now don't forget about protecting anything else that's being connected...phone, cable, etc. to your system. Surges get in any way they can. You might want to give Allied a call and see what they can recommend that's cost effective. Hmmmmmm.....what else? Homeowners insurance...take a look at how your stuff is protected and see if you're happy with that...maybe you want a rider with no deductible and full replacement? How's the ground outside the building?
Time to kick back and have a cold one. Btw, how're you doing your speakers?

 

[Jay_Leonard]

Chu,

I wired three rooms of speakers all in the walls using generic 12 Gauge Speaker wire,

The first floor of the house is maybe 900 sf it used to be four rooms we have taken down six walls and it is now for all intents and purposes 2 rooms... kitchen-dining room (great room?) and our living room ( now theater )

When we demolished the rest of the first floor I wired rg6, cat 5, and speaker wire, to all corners of the rooms. the rg6 is just pieces that really do not go any where but to coils in the basement, just in case, the cat 5 provides phone outlets at regular intervals, and the speakers I put two sets of wall mounted bookshelves at 90 degrees to each other, one in the kitchen area above in a soffit I built for the cabinets. and two in the dining area, the fun touch is that I put a small sub underneath some stairs in a wall and used 2 1/2"PVC for a port to the room. The reason for two sets was I wanted to be able to listen to music or in the morning, the news, with out having to turn it up too loud. the two sets of speakers keep every thing pretty close.


We run the Theater speakers off an Onkyo 797 then take the second audio program out of that to my old Kenwood Pro logic deck to run the other two sets of speakers, so I have like a 3 inch bundle of speaker wire leaving the wall unit, Just an FYI If you have a Dig signal in to the 797 it will only send out a dig signal to the second program out. so If I want to listen to CD's in the kitchen i have to hook the analog outs of the CD deck to the Onkkyo in addition to the digital. goofy,

J

 

[Chu Gai]

Sounds good! I'll be looking forward to pictures some day in the future and wish you and your family great success in your home. Don't forget to pick up something to handle the cable and phone. I'd have to say you bought yourself some serious peace of mind with that zero surge unit and years from now i rather suspect it'll still be doing its job silently behind the scenes. Good luck in all

 

[Jay_Leonard]

Molto Bene....


J