Hsu or SVS boxed sub (1 Viewer)

[Jeff Kiel]

I know they haven't been out for long, so it might be difficult to get a comparison, but what are the opinions between the HSU VTF-2 and the SVS PB1-ISD? They are within $100 of each other.

 

[ChadLB]

Go read this review and I think that will help

http://svsubwoofers.com/reviews_mitchell.htm

Also note that the PB1-ISD uses the same driver and amp as the 25-31 PCI.... In the end I think SVS would be better.

 

[Edward J M]

The SVS PB1-ISD is better match (output and extension) for the HSU VTF-3 than the VTF-2.

The PB1-ISD will match the VTF-3 in output with the same THD at 30 Hz, and only gives away 2 dB (with the same THD) at 20 Hz.

All for $250 less than the $850 VTF-3.

The PB1-ISD will bury the VTF-2 in output (with the same THD) while providing the same or better extension.

The basis for my statements? The latest The Sensible Sound review of the 25-31 PCi, which is essentially the cylinder version of the PB1-ISD. Tom V has the exact numbers - I can't seem to find them right off.

Ed

 

[Arron H]

How will the PB1-ISD match up against an Adire Dharman (also $599)?

 

[Eddie Leary]

The VTF-3 is very comparable to the PC+ series from SVS. I have listened to both the VTF-3 and PC+, and the differences are minor at best.

The PB1-ISD will bury the VTF-2 in output (with the same THD) while providing the same or better extension.

I think you would be surprised to see how well the VTF-2 compares to more expensive subwoofers. Using distortion limits, it compares very well (reference: Tom Nousaine). The Sensible Sound tests using no strict distortion limits (just by ear), so the VTF-2 with it's 150 watt amp and 10 inch driver cannot be pushed as much as larger more expensive subwoofers. However, up to a certain output level it competes very well to 25Hz. It is flat to 25Hz in frequency response.

One word of caution, is not to equate performance of box and cylinder equivalents. The VTF-3 and 1220 tested with the same driver and same amp have noticeably different measurements. The 1220 had 106db's at 20Hz! Yet with most music and HT sources they sound very similar, even if the data doesn't exactly say so.

 

[Josh Wolfman]

I ordered the svs box sub (pb1) and have not received it yet BUT either Tom or Ron has posted on this board that the performance will be between the 2531 and the 2039. If this is the case, then you can throw out these last comparisons.

 

[Arron H]

Nobody's interested in tackling the Dharman/PB1-ISD comparison? Dustin B, where are you??

 

[Tom Vodhanel]

Hi Eddie,

>>>The VTF-3 is very comparable to the PC+ series from SVS. I have listened to both the VTF-3 and PC+, and the differences are minor at best.The 22-31PCi will have roughly 109db's at 31.5Hz.Just to give you an idea about what a 3 or 4db difference is, remember that 5-6db's results in double the perceived output. So 3db's is perhaps more than 50 percent greater perceived output, and 6db's is 100 percent more.

 

[Tom Vodhanel]

>>>I ordered the svs box sub (pb1) and have not received it yet BUT either Tom or Ron has posted on this board that the performance will be between the 2531 and the 2039. If this is the case, then you can throw out these last comparisons.

 

[Eddie Leary]

I agree that the vtf-3 is an excellent deal. But you really should factor in all the costs if your point is a fair comparison. The HSU ships with a blanket $60 shipping fee doesn't it? If so, that would make the delivered price $824.10 .

We are arguing dollars and cents here now. I don't like to talk about percentages because that is not always indicative of the true price difference (if something costs 1 dollar and another thing costs 2 dollars, that is 100% difference in price but only 1 dollar more). We are talking about a price difference between VTF-3 and 25-31PCi of roughly $200 right now, well worth it I feel. Most people should be able to save up for this. For those who can't, the VTF-2 and PCi will be more than adequate.

 

[jeff lam]

Where have I been??? Since when does SVS make a box sub? I heard about the B4 but nothing about the PB1 till I read this thread?

What are the specs of this sub? External dimentions, tuning freq, freq response, etc...?

EDIT: Nevermind... found it on the website.

 

[Jack Gilvey]

http://www.svsubwoofers.com/subwoofers.htm

 

[Phil Iturralde]

Thanks Tom for clarifying the above comparisons!

At this point, let me post your earlier HTF thread ... "SVS 25-31PCi Arrives..! " (copied and posted below without any edits) ...

Hsu or SVS boxed sub

IMHO - SVS boxed sub!!!

Phil

 

[Tom Vodhanel]

>>>I believe it was 96db's. Remember that the tuning design lets us choose what we want. If we want maximum output at 31Hz then we choose the mode for maximum output. If we want maximum output at 20Hz we choose the mode for maximum extension.>>So what was the frequency response of the 25-31PCi? Was that tested?>Not really. Remember that the VTF-3 in the mode for maximum output has a flat frequency response to 20Hz (verified by some reviewer I believe in the Editor's Gold Award review for the VTF-3). This is the mode that will sound best with most material. In this mode, we get 115db's at 31Hz, a 3db advantage. I don't think the VTF-3 was made for the people who want maximum output at 20Hz, either was the 25-31PCi or the 22-31PCi. That is for the reputable 1220.>In a large room, maybe.

 

[Eddie Leary]

IMHO - SVS boxed sub!!!

I think you should listen to both products before saying this.

 

[Eddie Leary]

The 40% price difference I quoted is about $236. I think this is a significant amount when the discussion is focused on subwoofers costing $499,$549,$649 and $765.

Significant for some, not so significant for others. I think if people listened to a VTF-3, they would feel the money well spent even compared to the other less expensive subs.

 

[Randy G]

Talk about splitting hairs!!!!

As Tom seemed to semi-gloss over, most psychoacousticians agree that it takes about a 10 decibel difference in spl levels to be perceived as "twice" as loud...yeah, somewhat frequency dependent.
Reality is that you're only talking a precious few decibels difference between the 2 damned subs AT FULL OUTPUT! Helloooo!!...are ya gonna be running your sub at absolute max all the time? 80% of the time? 50% of the time?
ANSWER: NO!
Solution: Test both subs and return the one you dislike, although I'd take big bets that ya won't dislike either of them...gala apples to Fuji apples.

Had to get that off my chest. It's like people are trying to split such fine hairs with a dull knife.

 

[Phil Iturralde]

... IMHO, if you want to get the best performance vs. price, I still recommend the SVS box!!!

Interestingly, I didn't audition the SVS 25-31PCi before I bought it, but I did own a number of passive / powered subs (8" - 15") since 1980, so I knew what a sub does and what I needed for my HT. So, from what I’ve read / researched, … subjective & objective - about the SVS since their introduction, … it was a no brainer when they introduce their new, lower-priced PCi series.

As I wrote above, I’m very happy, still impressed and awed every time I play my library of DVD’s or newly introduced blockbuster DVD!!!

Ever since I got my SVS 25-31PCi, it has impressed many who were over during my Friday NITE DVD presentations, so much so, that my brother (25-31PCi - $499 summer sale), co-worker Engineer (25-31PCi) and close friend (20-39PCi - $549 summer sale) bought SVS without blinking an eye or credit card!

I've been a member hear @ HTF since Oct. '98, so, Edward, lighten up – we’ve read your opinion and recommendation! Answer Tom’s question w/the due respect required by any HTF member.

I remember Tom & Ron before their partnership, their timely helpful contributions in numerous HTF threads, their eventual SVS creation, super customer service/relations and so, it was no mystery** what to expect when I purchased (pre-ordered) the newly introduce SVS 25-31PCi un-auditioned!!!

**Let me say I thought there was “no mystery”, a more accurate analogy after I received my SVS was, … I had no idea what I was missing overall, … until I REF Calibrated my JBL / SVS and played my first DVD (Toy Story 2)! What I heard and felt was really an unknown mystery that I wouldn’t / couldn’t imagine would literally be the missing HT link. My SVS is by far the best HT investment I’ve made!

My years of reading Tom & Ron HTF posts provided me enough evidence that both were knowledgeable HT enthusiasts contributing their subjective and objective experience here @ HTF! The fact that Tom use to build subs for HTF members as a favor, just blew me away.

So, let me write again, my recommendation to Jeff Kiel, … IMHO ... get the SVS!!!

Phil

 

[Eddie Leary]

IMHO, if you want to get the best performance vs. price, I still recommend the SVS box!!!

It is nice to have an opinion, but shouldn't we at least try to listen to each product before saying "buy X" or "buy Y"? I don't think the idea is to push people into buying our favorite products. Nice to see you are happy. A lot of Hsu owners are happy too

 

[BrianKR]

I had both (HSU & SVS) and I prefer SVS as well.
They were equal for music but the SVS provided my stuborn room with more slam for HT.