Got speakers.. NOW WIRE!! (1 Viewer)

[Brian OK]

Analysis Plus wire is best sourced used @ www.audiogon.com
Also www.audioadvisor.com sells AP, but you are best to seek a used deal at near half the price. AP wire is easily found there... Oval 12, Oval 9, and assortments of both in bi-wire if so inclined.
audioengr at audioasylum has no affiliation with AP wire. He makes his own and can be found at www.empiricalaudio.com I believe.
I use an AP 12/9 Oval biwire setup myself and have been very satisfied for a few years now.
Good Luck,
BOK

 

[Frank joe]

ok dont buy anything till u read thus website. this has about 500 strands. its 12 gaugage and i own it i think its awsomehttp://www.knukonceptz.com/detail.as...ct_id=KAR12BLS

 

[ColinM]

Today I'm going to try jacketed 14/4, twisting the pairs together for a pseudo-11/2. I have to run the mains 30 feet or so.

$.18 or so per foot on ebay. Monster 14/4 was on there the other day for $.53...

 

[Chu Gai]

You're right, he is affiliated with Empirical.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

I've had great luck with Cardas, Kimber and Audioquest at all price points.
I have found low-end Audioquest wire to be particularly good and a definite improvement over 12 gauge.
Remember, the connections also play a role here and you get lots of oxidation with just bare stripped wire. In fact, it creates a headache because to get the best sound you have to periodically re-strip the wire.
Of course, you can buy some nice Cardas rhodium connectors for reasonable money.

1-10 ft: 16 ga

Bob,
We are aware you are skeptical of high end wire, but to be fair to the readers of the Forum I think we need to clear up some things so they can make the right decisions:
1) wire effects are highly complex and can greatly impact overall system sound
2) it is an over-simplification IMHO to go to a certain gauge based on length
3) connectors and wire purity, stranding design, wire drawing technique, alloy composition, etc. all play a role
4) there is varying quality of connector implementation as well as overall manufacture & quality of parts
5) the best policy is to audition cable from a good dealer in your own home and sound system to understand exactly what it will sound like
6) there are several audiophile brands that are proven and respected like those above mentioned that offer a reasonably priced entry level cable, often incorporating some or most of the advantages of their expensive lines
Hope that helps.

 

[Phil_DC]

Frank joe,

I use Tributaries Direct Series Loudspeaker wires SP2, and I am very happy with it however that Karma 12AWG Speaker Kable looks damn good. I might just try it on my next project.

 

[Walt N]

Until the appearance of reliable evidence that different speaker wires of similar gauge can make an audible difference with properly designed equipment, I'm using generic Home Depot type wire and have been for the last 20 years while I wait. My recommendation would be to do the same and spend the money you saved on software.

 

[Bob McElfresh]

The notion that a straight piece of wire has any appreciable inductance

Yes, a pair of wires running in parallel exhibit some impedence. The ammount of impedence mainly depends upon the center-to-center distance of the wires. This is why the thicker wires have less.

This is some of physics behind power transmission.

The effect on the sound IMHO is small, but it does exist. The people who claim to be able to hear it have much more accurate/sensitive equipment than I own.

From these facts, the marketing hype began.

How big of an effect - a bit. Not really worth the $$$ that some wire companies claim.

This is why I often suggest using good, inexpensive 12 ga, and start with this before auditioning more expensive copper. Only doing your own A/B comparison can you decide if the botique wires are worth it.

 

[Jeremy Stockwell]

Casey,

I don't know how my laugh got before Casey's comment. I must be psycho.

 

[Casey H]

One thing that cracks me up about the "wire discussions" is that you can spend a grundle on wire, but what about the .02 cents/ft lamp cord that some speaker manufacturers put in between your terminal to your drivers!
Casey

 

[Chu Gai]

well we needn't go into that now
some speaker manufacturers do use 'audophile' grade wire probably obtained for fractions of what one would pay. That's the old say something nice about me and I'll say something nice about you. I'm still looking for a wy to say something nice about Streisand though

 

[Iver]

Yes, a pair of wires running in parallel exhibit some impedence.

You are totally correct. It was a mixup on my part. You said impedance and somehow I thought inductance. Explanation in my post above.

Of course, all wires have impedance, measurable in Ohms. Resistance.

I agree with you totally on the marketing hype.

For me personally, I feel the chart linked to above is reasonable as a guide to the appropriate gauges for various run lengths and levels of speaker resistance. The guy backs it up with pretty straightforward theory.

It never hurts to go conservative on gauge, but if a friend asked me if he needed to use 12-gauge wire for the ten-foot runs to his front L/R speakers, I could not honestly tell him it was necessary to spend the extra $$$ for 12 versus 16 or 18.

It's not that I'm married to the idea of using the narrowest gauge possible. If somebody can get a great deal on a spool of 12-gauge, there's no reason not to go for it.

But in a choice between a sufficiently wide wire of a given price and another, wider-than-needed wire of a higher price, I would advise somebody to go with the lower-priced product.

Regards,

Iver

 

[Rob Rodier]

Good post Lee,

but what about the .02 cents/ft lamp cord that some speaker manufacturers put in between your terminal to your drivers!

If you are contemplating high end wire you have invested enough in quality componets/speakers to benefit from it.

My biwire Ixos cables are one of the best purchases I have made in recent years. And they replaced 12ga monster time correct.


Some hear it some don't

-rob

 

[EdwinL]

See I agree with Rob.

I am one and was one of the first in my household to hear the swirly cymbals that 128kbps mp3s have. Taking into consideration taht I listen to mostly jazz, it's easy to see why wires are important.

Keep up the interesting conversation!

Ed

 

[Shane Martin]

One thing that cracks me up about the "wire discussions" is that you can spend a grundle on wire, but what about the .02 cents/ft lamp cord that some speaker manufacturers put in between your terminal to your drivers!

The nicer speakers I've auditioned used Cardas internally. That certainly isn't lamp cord

 

[EdwinL]

Chu Gai provides the counter argument for the last posting. Read Shane, read.

 

[Shane Martin]

This is why Ignore lists suck sometimes but I'll deal with it.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

The nicer speakers I've auditioned used Cardas internally.

Yes! and most high end companies use Cardas parts or similar like WBT connectors, etc.
I have super-expensive Cardas Golden Reference and I think it was well worth it but my system costs a decent new car.
The good news: trickle down effects from the $2-10K cables.
I have been playing with Audioquest Sidewinder interconnects and new Kimber Tonik. Darn! you can get great sound with this stuff and its all under $100.
Unless you have a very inexpensive system, I strongly suggest you audition high end brands. You can always drop in Sound King and the latest Home Depot special but for $40 more you can really do well. Probably $100 gets you a nice high end entry set of cables. What you spend from there is entirely up to you.
Don't forget to buy some Caig ProGold to put on the connections!

 

[Bob McElfresh]

Lee: you are always welcome to step in and point out where I gloss over things. Keeps me honest.
I agree with nearly everything Lee pointed out. It can be difficult to fully describe what a wire does.
For example:

but what about the .02 cents/ft lamp cord that some speaker manufacturers put in between your terminal to your drivers!

Good point. On the surface this seems to say: "the speaker manufacturers dont use exotic wire".
But the complex part is there is a length issue. What happens to a signal on a 6 inch piece of wire inside the speaker and what happens on a 12 foot run is: a factor of 24. This can take an effect with a small/ignorable influence and multiply it by 24 times. - suddenly it's not so small.
And this is a linear effect like resistance. With impdence - the effect changes with the tone. Lower frequency sounds come through with very little change. But the higher-frequency sounds (and humans are most sensitive to sounds about 10 khz) are affected a lot more.
So the physics (as I understand it) support the claims, and back-up the "gauge for run-length" recommendations.
THE PRICE ISSUE:
We are talking about $0.50/ft for the thick 12 ga wire.
Or Sound King:
50' of 16 ga: $16.95 = $0.34 /ft
50' of 14 ga: $21.95 = $0.44 /ft
50' of 12 ga: $22.95 = $0.46 /ft
100' of 12ga: $35.95 = $0.36 / ft
So we are not talking $$$ to go with the recommended 12 ga wire. If the $14 difference between 16 and 12 ga is a major expense for you - you might be in the wrong hobby.
These are the dominate reasons I suggest you buy a spool of good 12 ga wire and use it everywhere. For a music system, it will get you to within about 90% of what botique wires will for pennies. And for HT use - it will get you near 98% (because HT sound is highly compressed, sparse and largely artifical compared to a music CD).
Then as Lee says: you can audition more exotic cables later and decide if the difference is worth the $40 extra.
Hope this helps.

 

[EdwinL]

Exactly Bob.... Exactly!
Why do equipment/component manufactures not use $82837912881 wiring in their components? Well, to save the consumer some money. When designing components, these short runs of wire are actually not even put into the equation, because they "assume" the losses due to their materialistic properties to be "negligable"!
However, here's the probelm with buying cheap wire the first time around. With time, familiarization sets in the human mind, and when a variation is presented, our nature instincts is to reject the change. Call "conditioning" or what not. I want to avoid that. I really want to fall in love with my equipment the first time around, and not worry that maybe it could sound better or worse or not know how it would sound if I had just stretched that bill just a little more.
Things should be done righ the first time, or they should not be done at all!
As for my progress, I'm still looking around, talking to practically everyone I come across. In fact, I've setup a date with one of my professors to borrow some of his wiring.
For the most part though, I'm leaning toward that super cool looking blue/silver KnuKoncept wiring referred to me by one the posters. I will more than likely terminate these with some Ultralink banana plugs or spades.
Thanks for all your help, and keep posting, any and EVERY suggestion is welcome. If I don't benefit, someone else will!
Ed