First 'Rush In Rio' DVD Review (1 Viewer)

[ElevSkyMovie]

Vapor Trails has never been fixed, and from the comments I have seen online from Alex and Geddy, it never will be. The problem is in the master, not the cd manufacturing.

I bought RIR at my local Hastings Books and Music for $17. They surprisingly have a good selection of dvd concert discs, dvd-audio and SACD discs. If you have one near you, you might try them.

Edit: Just looked and Hastings isn't in Florida, sorry.

I don't understand Alex's comments about releasing the back catalog in SACD. If 5.1 is all he is objecting to, then release stereo hybrids. From the press release I read, 2112 was the only album that was going to have a 5.1 mix anyway.

 

[Ivan Lindenfeld]

Thank you Kyle. I cannot beleive the band has so little influence on the quality of the product, particularly one of the best selling bands of all time. I'll begin to get over it I suppose.

 

[ElevSkyMovie]

The band *could* do something, they just don't want to. Basically, they recorded it themselves with their own digital equipment. Geddy was responsible for mixing it, and he got very frustrated with how bad it was sounding. They brought in Paul Northfield (I think) to help produce and get the mixes going. Geddy basically was very unhappy with how the album sounded, but he presented it to Alex who listened to it on some headphones on a beach in Hawaii. He liked it so they ran with it and put it out.

You can explore more about the bad sound here.

This mastering engineer thinks the album was digitally squashed and distorted in the mastering process. I think that may have happened to some extent, but since the guys were recording themselves with digital equipment, some of the distortion and digital overs may be from the tracking and mixing stages. Either way, it's a shame because the songs are excellent, but listening to the album really wears on you.

Kyle

 

[Brian L]

I don't understand Alex's comments about releasing the back catalog in SACD. If 5.1 is all he is objecting to, then release stereo hybrids. From the press release I read, 2112 was the only album that was going to have a 5.1 mix anyway.

Kyle,

If you are referring my my previous post, IIRC, Alex didn't reject hi-rez per-se, just 5.1.

I will take another look at the article, but IIRC the crux of his argument was that they would be tempted to start tinkering with things in the mix, beyond just doing a surround presentation, and he really felt adamant that they should not do that.

I would agree with you, though. I would take a hi-rez stereo mix, if thats all that the bend felt comfortable doing, but I would really prefer a 5.1 hi-rez mix.

Having said that, the most recent CD remasters of the back catalog sound very good to my ears. I suspect that simply doing a 2 CH hi-rez release would yield subtle improvements.

As a point of comparison, I just got Aerosmith's Toys in the Attic SACD. The 5.1 mix is phenomenal in my room. The EQ on it is perfect. But the 2 CH SACD layer sounds like crap.

I even dug out the last redbook remaster, and in truth it sounds about the same as the 2 CH SACD layer. Perhaps the 2CH layer is just a flat transfer from the master; I really don't know, but the difference in sound quality between the 2CH and MC layers (in terms of tonal balance and EQ) is not subtle.

So, for what thats worth, while I would probably do a blind purchase of a MC Hi-Rez Rush release, if they go only 2 CH I would wait to read some user reviews.

BGL

 

[ElevSkyMovie]

Brian,

I agree that the stereo sacd layer of a new sacd hybrid release probably wouldn't sound light years better than the new remasters.

I would like to see the sacds released, though, as I have been holding off getting the remasters because I figured they would be out on high-rez eventually (don't see a need to purchase them twice).

I am doing the same thing with Van Halen, holding off buying the remasters of the first 6 albums, hoping they'll be out on dvd-audio soon.

Kyle

 

[Rich Malloy]

This isn't a disc that interests me, but it's a good opportunity for me to play this old saw:

To be a top-flight music release, a disc must have:

1. A DTS surround mix. Dolby Digital of some kind is required in the specs, and should therefor be included, but I've many, many music DVDs, DVD-As and DTS surround discs, and I've never heard a DD-5.1 mix that sounds as good (much less better) than its DTS counterpart

2. A LPCM stereo track. DD-2.0 is a joke. Yuk. LPCM stereo tracks don't take up much more real estate, and sound infinitely better... and usually superior to the DTS surround track.*

As I understand it, this disc has neither. Further, it's my understanding that these crucial elements were deleted for much-less-than-crucial extras of the "gee whiz" variety. Good for scooter, junior, and the other shiny object lovers, but if the music is your primary concern, then you got shafted.

I'll put the ol' saw away for now... but expect to hear it again until such time as these idiotic DVD producers get a clue.

 

[ElevSkyMovie]

The DTS went away because it's a 3 hour show and there wasn't room. Management decided not to put LPCM stereo on it because they decided to release it on cd as well and didn't want you to be able to rip the LPCM and make your own cd ( not that many would know how ).

The gee whiz extras are on disc 2 (multi-angle and documentary).

 

[TheLongshot]

1. A DTS surround mix. Dolby Digital of some kind is required in the specs, and should therefor be included, but I've many, many music DVDs, DVD-As and DTS surround discs, and I've never heard a DD-5.1 mix that sounds as good (much less better) than its DTS counterpart

To be honest, I think this is subjective and probably a waste of space. I'd rather have the PCM 2 channel.

And just because it has a DTS track, does not make it "better" or "top flight".

Personally, while there are flaws with this release, every Rush fan should own this. It is probably the best Rush has looked on home video, with a concert that actually feels like a real concert.

Jason

 

[Paul.S]

Howdy guys. This thread is not unlike what S&V writer Mike Mettler says in the "15 Minutes . . ." sidebar about the band: it's "[l]ike the Energizer Bunny, it keeps going and going." (But, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's anything wrong with that . . .")

[sigh] I'm both understanding/empathetic and critical WRT Alex's comments about both 5.1 mixes of catalog albums and his tentative preference for only using 5.1 for live projects. I've said it before, but Alex is a way better guitarist than engineer (Exhibit "A": Victor). I wonder if he's heard the 5.1s of DSOtM and Metallica??

Unlike, say, Peter Gabriel, Alex's comments betray a seemingly limited imagination regarding the sonic possibilities of this new paradigm. Forgive me if this sounds too academic/condescending, but I think its partly incumbent upon damn good engineers to help artists understand these unprecedented possibilities. It's almost as though he's holding the band's lack of discipline regarding doing things over/futzing with past work (we'll call it Darth Lucas Syndrome or "DLS") against 5.1. Why not task Terry Brown or another engineer they have a relationship with with going into the studio (without the band, to minimize DLS) to do a 5.1 remix and then presenting the band with the result for their blessing or thumbs down? Maybe I'm just too titillated by the possibilities of "The Camera Eye" in 5.1 which, to steal BGL's phrase re RIR, makes my "nuts tingle."

Rich, I agree WRT lamenting the absence of PCM 2-channel (I understand on this title that it was a space issue though).

Kyle:

Geddy was responsible for mixing [VT], and he got very frustrated with how bad it was sounding. They brought in Paul Northfield (I think) to help produce and get the mixes going. Geddy basically was very unhappy with how the album sounded, but he presented it to Alex who listened to it on some headphones on a beach in Hawaii. He liked it so they ran with it and put it out.

More damning evidence on "Big Al." Where'd you read/hear this skinny?

-p

 

[ElevSkyMovie]

Paul,

I acquired a VCD of a Rush retrospective show that was on MuchMusic last year. Tacked on to the end of the VCD was a show call "A List with Anthony DeCurtis" who is a Rock Critic. He interviews Geddy and Alex, and also they debut the VT album track by track. In that show, they talk about the problems they had with the album sound.

Kyle

 

[Paul.S]

, guys: I was told that this title will be re-released in the spring (March 2004) as a single disc 'greatest hits' package. It will supposedly have half the number of songs and, you guessed it, use the additional bit budget gained via a shorter program to include DTS audio and anamorphic enhancement.[/b]

I haven't heard anything further on this tip. Anyone else?

-p

 

[Nathan Eddy]

I love Rush, and I love RIR. However, I hate the Dolby Digital mix. On a Rush message board, I read a tip for getting better sound out of this recording: use Dolby Pro Logic II. I tried it, and was very impressed. The annoying echoes on Neil's cymbals disappear. His drum fills suddenly reappear--in the surround channels (his toms were too quiet for me in DD). The vocals aren't as buried. And I no longer get a headache listening to it.

I turn the midnight option off and panoramic on. It sounds great compared to the DD mix. Has anyone else tried this?

 

[Brian L]

I have not heard that (or don't remember reading it), but it might be fun to give it a try.

I personally like the DD mix on RiR, but have been experimenting with 2 CH stuff with NEO:6, PL II Music, and EARS (proprietary NAD ambience extraction mode). With certain 2 CH material, the results can be quite enjoyable.

Beside, I never need a reason to cue up some Rush.

Quick question: What does midnight option have to do with PL II? Thats a DD only feature IIRC, which would not be enabled with a 2 CH PCM mix, right?

BGL

 

[Nathan Eddy]

When I pop in RIR, Midnight mode is a DP II option on my Kenwood receiver. However, with other DVDs, this option is not available for DPII. Strange. Perhaps the stereo mix on RIR isn't PCM? It seems like I read this somewhere in the depths of this thread. But then, I'm not sure what it would be unless it's just a two-channel Dolby Digital mix. (I wonder what's the difference in a two-channel DD mix ran through DPII and a PCM ran through DPII?)

Anyway, I disable it because I assume it is a form of compression, and RIR is over-compressed as it is.

 

[ElevSkyMovie]

The 2 channel mix is Dolby Digital. There is no PCM track on RIR.

 

[Jeff Keene]

Nathan -

Thanks for the tip. I'm one of those haters, too, and would love to find a solution.