First Blu-Ray titles not encoded with new audio codecs

Discussion in 'Playback Devices' started by Craig W, Apr 27, 2006.

  1. Craig W

    Craig W Second Unit

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    Bill Hunt is reporting that the initial BRD titles are not going to be encoded with DD+/THD/dts-HD instead they will be encoded with "high resolution" 5.1 LPCM tracks.

    What does this mean? Either you need a HDMI receiver or a receiver with an analog 5.1 input.

    The more I hear about the initial BRD titles the less I am impressed. At least HD-DVD is using the newer video and audio codecs. Sony better get it together soon and get VC1/H.264/DD+/DD-THD/dts-HD working on their format soon.

    BRD may be capable of better raw hardware numbers, but better software efficiency can have just as much of a impact on the end results.

    HD-DVD is starting to look more attractive especially when you consider its current price point.
     
  2. Juan C

    Juan C Second Unit

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    You forget full-bitrate DTS (a codec that HD DVD seems to have banished in all its titles released so far).


    DD+ on the HD DVD player also requires that. Otherwise it gets converted to DTS.
     
  3. Dave Moritz

    Dave Moritz Producer
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    This does not make me feel any better about holding out for Blu-ray. If Sony does not get there act together I may end up buying the HD-DVD format I initially did not want. Oh my gods, will the format that was supposed to loose end up winning this format war after all is said and done? This would only prove that Sony has no clue how to market any format and should stick to just making equipment. And stay out of the format development game for the foreseeable future. I hope Blu-ray does not end up being another Beta!
     
  4. Dan Hitchman

    Dan Hitchman Cinematographer

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    Well, none of the HD-DVD discs so far are "high resolution" either... they're 16/48 and that's including Phantom of the Opera's TruHD lossless track!!! High-res audio my... you know. They aren't even bothering to use the studio masters, which normally now are 24/48 or 24/96.

    Dissappointing to say the least.

    Dan
     
  5. Craig W

    Craig W Second Unit

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    Well, the first HD-DVD titles are being encoded with the newer audio codecs.

    Blu-ray is trying to use a jackhammer to fasten a drywall nail. They may have a higher hardware numbers overall, but numbers don't represent the whole story. Encoding titles at MPEG2 and LPCM is a waste of bandwidth.

    I don't own HD-DVD yet, but I am impressed that HD-DVDs are using more refined technology right out of the gate.

    HD-DVD was rushed to market, but strong Blu-ray supporters are kidding themselves if they don't think Blu-ray is just as rushed if not more than HD-DVD.
     
  6. PeterTHX

    PeterTHX Cinematographer

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    Umm, the fact that Sony's Blu-ray discs will use multichannel PCM means that they are rushed? You MUST be joking.

    It's the "Superbit" mentality, they want to advertise UNCOMPRESSED audio and the 1080p video in their first releases. I have a feeling Warner's BRD titles will be DD+.
     
  7. Robert Saccone

    Robert Saccone Stunt Coordinator

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    So those of us without HDMI or 5.1 analog inputs are shutout of Blue Ray then?
     
  8. Shawn Perron

    Shawn Perron Supporting Actor

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    Nope, you are in the same exact position you are in with HD-DVD. The most you can get out of the player without analog connections or HDMI is DTS. Without a well calibrated and setup home theater sound system, you may not notice much of a difference between legacy DTS and the new sound formats anyway.
     
  9. Ron-P

    Ron-P Producer

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    Why is HD-DVD supposed to loose?
     
  10. PeterTHX

    PeterTHX Cinematographer

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    I don't see how either format can "loose" anything. They aren't "tight" either.

    HD DVD may LOSE because it has very little hardware support.
     
  11. Dave Moritz

    Dave Moritz Producer
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    Ok here we go,

    " will the format that was supposed to loose end up winning this format war after all is said and done?"

    I said that because if I remember correctly the general consensus was that because Blu-ray had the support of most studios. And they held the edge in data transfer and overall data storage capability. That HD-DVD would most likely get edged out by Blu-ray and they would end up winning the format war. And I am starting to think that Toshiba just may pull out the win because of Sony incompetent marketing ability. I honestly felt that Sony had so much of an edge that they would take the win, and Toshiba would most likely disappear. This is so far unfolding differently than I thought they would. Even though Toshiba rushed HD-DVD out as fast as possible to beat Blu-ray it has so far worked for them and they now have the edge in being first out the gate. That however is no guarantee that they will win this format war, just look at Beta vs VHS. Beta was first out of the gate and they still lost to VHS. So when I made that statement it was not to say Toshiba should loose or they will loose. It was just based on how little support Toshiba had and the areas that Blu-ray excelled over HD-DVD.

    Now for the second item. You do know Peter that being this anal about someone misspelling something is kind of sad. What is the point of being sarcastic and making it a point to make a big deal out of it. Ok I misspelled a word I would hope you have something else better to do. Correcting me like your a collage professor does not make you better and means nothing in this forum.
     
  12. Craig W

    Craig W Second Unit

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  13. AlexBC

    AlexBC Second Unit

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    What??? I just can't believe people are complaining about that. Gosh, that's what I've been dreaming for the past 10 years, ever since I started collecting pre-recorded movies in LD.

    And I know the argument is that it could use some lossless codec for more efficiency; but hey, I don't trust any of them (DDTrueHD nor DTS-HD) just yet. I mean, are they really lossless? Is there some kind of fine print down there at their spec-sheets, which should have me concerned?
    And well, of course I'd take "high resolution" 5.1 LPCM tracks over HD-DVD's DD+ anytime, after all, the latter is just slightly better than legacy DD and DTS and the new lossless codecs can't be playedback properly yet.

    The new HD format for me has better be both, HD video and audio, and HD-DVD just isn't that.

    More power to BD for finally presenting us multichannel uncompressed mix, that's the ideal uncompromised decision. WOW, I can't wait anymore, it's getting more exiting every minute.
     
  14. PeterTHX

    PeterTHX Cinematographer

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    Blu-ray can have up to 72Mpbs of bandwidth (x2). MPEG2 at 28Mbps & 5.1 LPCM at 8Mbps still falls within the 1x standard. (All players have to support x2 BTW).

    AlexBC hits the nail on the head.
     
  15. PeterTHX

    PeterTHX Cinematographer

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    Nahh. Too easy [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  16. Juan C

    Juan C Second Unit

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    Too true. People act like they just found out that (a) the Toshiba HD-A1 player costs $500, and (b) there are going to be HD DVD movies released by Warner and Universal. In fact both data were known as early as January. It didn't sway me on paper and it doesn't sway me in the flesh (so to speak, because I'm on the other side of the pond).
     
  17. Craig W

    Craig W Second Unit

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    As I said earlier I really don't have a vested interest in this format war, but I still stand by my statement that Blu-Ray is being rushed to market in order to keep pace with the competition. The first titles are prime examples.

    If Sony goes uncompressed LPCM, then fine, but with most of the initial discs only being single layer 25GB disc, they should be using VC1 or H.264 otherwise I think they are comprimising video quality significantly.

    Look I want the best possible product at the most reasonable price point, but I really think the "blinders-on" Blu-Ray supporters are fooling themselves that the first Blu-Ray titles are going to be superior to the first HD-DVD titles.

    I can already see Sony pulling another Superbit type thing on Blu-Ray. You bought it before, but buy it again this time with VC1/DDTHD/dts-HD/Uncompressed LPCM @24-bit 96kHz and no vertical/horizontal filtering on the new Super-Kluge-E I mean SuperBluey disc.
     
  18. Dave Moritz

    Dave Moritz Producer
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    How do you figure Blu-ray is being rushed to market? If anything they have held the format back to take care of any glitches. The first generation of Blu-ray has been available in Japan for a few years allready. So when you say that its being rushed to market, I would strongly disagree. If anything has been rushed to market it is Toshiba's HD-DVD.
     
  19. Paul Anthony

    Paul Anthony Stunt Coordinator

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    Well, so far I'm loving Dolby Digital Plus, and don't really care to go back to standard Dolby Digital. But, as long as the Sony Blu-Ray encoded 5.1 LPCM sounds just as impressive as Dolby Digital Plus, then I won't complain. I think we should give Sony a chance to prove what they got, before everybody starts freaking out. However, I am concerned about Blu-Ray's high price in discs and hardware, that's why it's important that they are impressive, for starters.
     
  20. Aaron_Brez

    Aaron_Brez Supporting Actor

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    What high price in disks? Last I saw, they were looking to be ~$1 higher than HD DVD, on the average.

    High price on hardware... no argument there, though IMO in comparison to 1st gen DVD players, the prices are reasonable.
     

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