Fasting (Detoxification and Glycogen replenishing)

Discussion in 'After Hours Lounge (Off Topic)' started by Ockeghem, Jun 8, 2012.

  1. Ockeghem

    Ockeghem Ockeghem

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    Mike,Thanks. I'm just posting my experience with regard to fasting, which I've done for years. I hope people would not proceed without sound research in the discipline, which I have done extensively. If you (or any other moderators) do not wish for me to post my thoughts and experiences on this any longer, please let me know. :)
     
  2. Mike Frezon

    Mike Frezon Moderator
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    Oh, we'd let you know...

    :D

    We just think it's reasonable to remind members that fasting is not for everyone. And people who consider it should be aware of the ramifications to their system. And the best way to learn that is from your doctor. :thumbs-up-smiley:
     
  3. Aaron Silverman

    Aaron Silverman Executive Producer

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    I read something this morning about "5-2" diets. There are different variants, but the basic idea is that you eat normally five days per week, and eat very little (and no carbs) two days per week. It seems to work pretty well for some people.

    I need to look into this stuff, 'cause I have a wedding to attend in two months and I ain't buyin' a new suit! ;)
     
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  4. Ockeghem

    Ockeghem Ockeghem

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    Aaron,Wow, I'm thrilled that you've read about the 5:2. And how you've described it is spot on as far as my experience with it is concerned. I have some friends who do that one. There are many variants (6:1, 5:2, 4:3, 3:4, etc.) of these kinds of intermittent fasting routines, and one might be great for one person while another might be great for someone else.

    My eventual goal is to transition into one of these regimens as a way of life. I created one of my own a year or so ago, which I have done sporadically a few times during the past year, but never on a consistent basis. This is because every time I get a couple of days of fasting under my belt, I want to continue that fast for longer than one or two days as the fast is too short. (I tend to like longer fasts as you might have guessed by now.) In any event, the one I hope to transition into is a 3:4 (or 0010101 = one complete week) intermittent fasting method, where the '0s' = fasting days and the '1s' = non-fasting days.
     
  5. Ockeghem

    Ockeghem Ockeghem

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  6. Ockeghem

    Ockeghem Ockeghem

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    I have been advised to preface the following post (which I first cleared with one of the site's owners). Fasting ought not to be attempted without first consulting with your physician. Additionally, if my post offends anyone, it may be removed at the discretion of those whom have the power to do so. My thanks to Ron Epstein for allowing me to share my fasting experiences. :)********************************

    I am currently half-way through day thirty-two of my six-week fast. Things are going smoothly, and although my energy level is obviously not as high as when I am not fasting, I am still very alert and I am able to run and walk a few miles each day. I did three miles yesterday, and I walked leisurely at a very comfortable pace and felt very good. I really must say that I love embracing the fasting lifestyle. When I spoke to one of my friends who is a medical doctor, he said I looked fine, and that I am fasting responsibly.

    I have been pondering two things during my current fast. The first has to do with my eventual transition into an intermittent fasting (IF) method of fasting. In fact, this long fast is but a prelude to what I really want to do as a way of life -- some form of a consistent IF. But I have to accomplish this goal (a forty-plus day fast) first, which is something that I have wanted to do for a few years. The second is how long ought I to continue with my current fast once I have met my goal. When August 11th arrives, I will be at my ideal running weight (I am just about there now) and will have accomplished what I had set out to do. I am fairly certain that I will at that time be able to fast for much longer, but I really need to have some compelling reasons to continue beyond forty-two days, and at this point I don't have any so I will most likely break my fast (gently) on day forty-three.

    This has been my most spiritual fast thus far. Besides attempting to read through the entire bible cover-to-cover (something I won't complete unless my fast goes about 100 days ;) ), I have drawn closer to God and I have been praying much more this time around than during previous fasts. I went into this fast with two goals in mind: 1) to complete a forty-two day fast; and 2) to read through my entire ASV (1901) copy of the bible, something I have not yet done in my life.

    Communion is an interesting dilemma for me, as it involves (in our particular church) a small cracker and grape juice, and it is administered weekly (every Sunday). During this fast, I have skipped communion since June 30th. It's interesting to try to explain why I have chosen to do this to some people within our congregation. But thankfully, they are supportive. Another benefit of my fast is that several people in our church are not only interested in the fasting that they are aware that I have been doing for quite some time (they know that it is biblical and that it is mentioned in scripture in several places -- in fact, it says when you fast, not if you fast), but they are also beginning to think about doing it themselves. And fasting is also mentioned in the Didache ("The Teachings Of the Twelve Apostles") as being a regular occurrence.
     
  7. KevinGress

    KevinGress Supporting Actor

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    I, for one, want to state that not only am I NOT offended by your post, I want to say thank you! While I have not attempted a fast yet myself, I am seriously considering it - and like you, more for faith purposes - largely because of this thread. Please keep chronicling your journey in this thread!
     
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  8. Ockeghem

    Ockeghem Ockeghem

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    Kevin,

    Thank you. I just want to be sure that people check with their physicians first before embarking on such a quest. It has taken me about four years to work up to this point in my fasting journey. I have done numerous one-week, two-week, and three-week fasts in the past, but until my current fast I have never gone beyond the twenty-third day before.

    Another thing I want to clarify is that although one loses weight when they fast, that is rarely the primary reason for doing it. In other words, rapid weight loss is not the reason to fast. I can't (and ought not to) get into the spiritual reasons for fasting (which I have already done above, although it was very carefully couched so as not to sound preachy), but if you'd ever like to discuss that (or the physiological) aspect of fasting, we can take that offline if you wish. :)

    Incidentally, if I were to tell someone that I often run (continuously) for seven hours at a time (sometimes topping out around forty miles at a clip), they would probably think I am crazy. But I've been running for over thirty-five years, and fasting compliments my running in ways that I wish I had known about back in the late 1970s and early 1980s when I began marathoning. I also hope eventually to implement a plant-based diet (as a way of life) into my routine as well.
     
  9. Aaron Silverman

    Aaron Silverman Executive Producer

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    I cut down on snacks yesterday (which for me is the willpower equivalent of Scott fasting for a month). Wish me luck! :)
     
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  10. Ockeghem

    Ockeghem Ockeghem

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    Good luck! May the Peavy be with you!

    ;)
     
  11. Mike Frezon

    Mike Frezon Moderator
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    :laugh:
     
  12. Aaron Silverman

    Aaron Silverman Executive Producer

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    Last night: Double Fudgy Chocolate Frozen Yogurt.

    No snacks on Tuesdays and Thursdays!
     
  13. Cameron Yee

    Cameron Yee Executive Producer
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    I first heard about intermittent fasting from the Michael Mosley BBC program. Later I saw his book, The Fast Diet, at the library and read a bit more that was not covered in the show. So I tried it for several weeks, mainly to lose about five pounds. I actually like the idea of fasting at least once a week to take a break from the Western eating lifestyle. I'm a bit off the 5:2 schedule, as my health is good and my weight goal was modest, but I intend to keep it up in some form.
     
  14. Ockeghem

    Ockeghem Ockeghem

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    Cameron,I have listened to and watched the Mosley clips several times. In fact, that video series is on one of the Fasting Boards on which I post. I found it to be very informative.

    My wife has told me for years (even before I began fasting) that taking at least a one-day break per week is very good for you physically and spiritually. And this was confirmed a few years later when one of the fasting doctors with whom I regularly correspond never (and he is very insistent on this) consumes food for more than six days per week. I wish you the best with your fasting goals. :)
     
  15. Ockeghem

    Ockeghem Ockeghem

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    Fasting ought not to be attempted without first consulting with your physician. :)********************************

    [This is a summation of my most recent fast. Some of the material is repeated above.]

    My Forty-two Day Fast

    Today (August 10th, 2013) I completed my first-ever forty-two day (six week) no food / no calorie fast. I have not had anything containing calories since June 29th, 2013. It has been my goal for a couple of years to do at least a forty-plus day fast. I have been pondering two things during this fast. The first has to do with my eventual transition into an intermittent fasting (IF) routine as a way of life. In fact, this longer fast is but a prelude to what I really want to do as far as lifelong fasting is concerned -- some form of a consistent IF. The second is whether or not I ought to continue with my current fast since I have met my goal. I am currently at my ideal running weight and have accomplished what I have set out to do. The interesting thing however is that I know I could fast for several more weeks at this point, but I really need to have some compelling reasons to continue beyond forty-two days, and at this point I don't have any so I decided to break my fast (gently and very gradually) sometime today.It is so liberating going without an ounce of food (or any calories at all) for several weeks. Besides the catabolic, detoxification, mental, physical, and spiritual advantages, it frees up so much time to do other things (play Bach, study theology, etc.). One of the things I have become very much aware of during my fasts is how much time and energy (and this is especially true of advertising) people around you devote their time to consuming, thinking about, and selling food. A few years ago I came to the realization that adults do not need to eat three times-per-day, and after a few years of consistent fasting I now know empirically that we need not even eat every day. Our bodies have an abundance of fats, nutrients, and reserves that are just waiting to be tapped into if we are willing (and of course, healthy enough) to explore and implement various options with regard to our eating habits into our lives.I have found any one of the many intermittent fasting methods (6:1, 5:2, 4:3, 3:4, etc.) to be very beneficial, especially for long-distance runners since an IF routine does not deplete your glucose or glycogen stores such as a longer fast does. I created one of my own IF regimens (the 3:4) a year or so ago, which I have done sporadically a few times during the past year, but never on a consistent basis. The reason for my inconsistency to this point is because every time I get a couple of days of fasting under my belt, I want to continue the fasts for longer than two days as the fast is too short. (I tend to like longer fasts as those who know my fasting habits are aware.) Since I have met my ultimate goal with regard to a longer fast at this point, I do not think that my intermittent fasting routine will continue to be inconsistent once I transition into it over the next few weeks. In any event, the method I hope eventually to transition into is a 3:4 (or 0010101 = one complete week) intermittent fasting scheme, in which the '0s' = fasting days and the '1s' = non-fasting days.On a more personal note, this has been my most spiritual fast thus far. Besides attempting to read through the entire bible (including the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic apocryphal books for those who consider them to be canonical) cover-to-cover, I have drawn closer to God and I have been praying much more so this time around than I have during previous fasts. I went into this fast with two goals in mind: 1) to complete at least a forty-plus day fast; and 2) to read through one of my favorite translations of the scriptures, the 1901 ASV, something I have not yet done in my life. I have met my first goal and I continue to work diligently on my second goal.Communion has posed an interesting spiritual dilemma for me throughout the fast, as it involves (in our particular church) a small cracker and grape juice, and it is administered weekly (every Sunday). During this fast I have prayerfully considered and decided against taking Communion. My decision not to partake in Communion during this fast was a difficult one, and has mostly to do with how even a single ounce of sustenance can trigger our hunger mechanisms to be re-engaged, which often results in breaking a fast prematurely.One of the benefits of my fast is that a number of people in our church are interested philosophically with regard to the fasting that they are aware that I have been doing for quite some time. Most I have spoken to know that it is biblical and that it is mentioned in scripture in several places -- in fact, it says when you fast, not if you fast. Some members have told me that they are beginning to think about trying it themselves. And it was a fasting friend of mine who recently reminded me that the discipline of fasting is also mentioned in the Didache ("The Teachings of the Twelve Apostles") as being a regular occurrence within the early church and that it occurred at least twice-per-week.
     
  16. Sam Posten

    Sam Posten Moderator
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    I'm sorry Scott but that sounds completely ridiculous and unhealthy.
     
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  17. Ockeghem

    Ockeghem Ockeghem

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    Sam,No apology is necessary. You're entitled to your opinion. I've been fasting for years (varying lengths), and I'm feeling wonderful and very healthy. Try a day or two of fasting sometime -- you might surprise yourself and actually enjoy it. Or maybe research the topic in reputed (i.e., peer-reviewed) medical journals and see what doctors whom have studied the subject have to say about it. :)
     
  18. Sam Posten

    Sam Posten Moderator
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    I am not a doctor. It's not an area I have studied extensively Scott but here ya go (and these are only from the most legit of sources, there's plenty more out there if you want it):
    http://www.cancer.org/treatment/treatmentsandsideeffects/complementaryandalternativemedicine/dietandnutrition/fasting
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1274154/
    http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/detox-diets/AN01334http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/fasting-and-food/MY02157Monkeying with intake doing fad or celebrity diets is a dangerous game. Witness:http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/01/29/steve-jobs-fruitarian-diet-lands-ashton-kutcher-in-the-hospital/You are altering the thyroid, liver, gastric, and pituitary (not to mention brain activity itself since you are starving IT and your heart of fuel) in ways that are not even remotely fully understood. And I say this as someone who has himself gone through gastric bypass with the idea of caloric restriction under doctors supervision. Non obese people who fast flirt with severe implications, both physical and mental, that might not even show while the fast itself is ongoing.
     
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  19. Ockeghem

    Ockeghem Ockeghem

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    Sam,

    Thanks. I've done the research (both sides of the argument), and I have several years of empirical evidence that supports my tenet that responsible fasting can have tremendous mental, physical, and spiritual benefits. I was suggesting that you do the research for yourself if you wanted to investigate further. In any event, I understand your concerns.

    Most people who do not fast do not understand it, and it can often frighten them (like anything that is an unknown quantity). Heck, my own doctor doesn't understand it, simply because he is not a nutritionist. He has never done it. On the other hand, two other friends of mine -- both of whom are also medical doctors -- not only understand it, but are very supportive of it and have explained some of the benefits of the practice to me in terms that I can understand. And they both fast. I will continue to fast as a way of life. :)
     
  20. Sam Posten

    Sam Posten Moderator
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    Sure, but the plural of anecdotes is not data. To my knowledge there have been no studies of long term fasting on non obese people. The short term effects are enough to dissuade most legitimate medical establishments from risking anything of the sort, I'm sure. Weight loss is a 61 billion dollar + industry (2010 figure) and everyone has their pet theories about what works. Many of them are dangerous.Your doctor is supervising your 40+ day fast? Or he is still under the impression you are doing the intermediate fasts? You feel fine but are you having blood work done to see how it is affecting your hormone levels?Again, I believe you are cherry picking your research and using popular media to back up your results and not being entirely square on the medical wonderfulness of extended fasting.
     
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