Coppola/Zoetrope version of Napoleon? (1 Viewer)

[David_B_K]

Not quite. The triptych Polyvision sequence is in Act IV on the third disc of the set (from about 26 minutes on). The different panels are included as playback options on this third disc; as such one would need three copies of the movie to play back the different panels. (The three discs in the set are Act I on disc 1, Acts 2 and 3 on disc 2 and Act 4 on disc 3. Note that this set is Region B and as such requires a region B player or some way to remove the region coding.)

I don't think that is correct. He would not need three copies, just three players and TVs. Each section of the tryptich is on a separate disc. From Chris Galloway's review at the Criterion forum:

The coolest feature, though, are separate presentations for each panel of the Triptych sequence in full high-definition: Disc 1 presents the left hand side, Disc 2 presented the center, and Disc 3 presents the right-hand side. Each is presented in the 1.33:1 aspect ratio. While the center frame is presented in a standard way with the image aligned horizontally to the center of the screen, the left panel is aligned to the right side of the screen and the right panel is aligned to the left side of the screen. I’m not sure if this is why they put each panel on each disc, but if you had the equipment (three television screens and three Blu-ray players) you could play the full Triptych sequence across three screens. Even if you can’t do that it’s great just getting the full blown frame and it’s fairly fun to watch each panel on its own.

 

[Mark Zimmer]

I don't think that is correct. He would not need three copies, just three players and TVs. Each section of the tryptich is on a separate disc. From Chris Galloway's review at the Criterion forum:

The coolest feature, though, are separate presentations for each panel of the Triptych sequence in full high-definition: Disc 1 presents the left hand side, Disc 2 presented the center, and Disc 3 presents the right-hand side. Each is presented in the 1.33:1 aspect ratio. While the center frame is presented in a standard way with the image aligned horizontally to the center of the screen, the left panel is aligned to the right side of the screen and the right panel is aligned to the left side of the screen. I’m not sure if this is why they put each panel on each disc, but if you had the equipment (three television screens and three Blu-ray players) you could play the full Triptych sequence across three screens. Even if you can’t do that it’s great just getting the full blown frame and it’s fairly fun to watch each panel on its own.

Right. The triptych appears in context in the film proper, but there is also a bonus feature on each of the 3 discs of the triptych alone, with a different one of the panels as a bonus feature on each disc. So you need 3 players and 3 TVs, but only one of the BFI set. I think it's expressly so someone could do this if they wanted and they had the equipment. It'd be fun to try.

 

[Jim*Tod]

Wouldn't there be something of a challenge to synch the three?

 

[Mark Zimmer]

Most likely. I think it's there just to give the opportunity for someone nuts enough to try it. I've never heard of anyone doing it successfully, but maybe someone at HTF has managed it.

 

[Jim*Tod]

No wife - but I'm not one with the level of obsession of a John Harvey! (R.I.P. and many thanks for all that his obsession brought us!)

I was lucky enough to see Harvey run two Cinerama shows at the New Neon theater in Dayton 20 some years ago. It was impressive on many levels, not the least that one man was doing what it normally took at least four men to do (three projectors and a separate sound element). My non-cinema friends still cannot fathom why I would go to Dayton to see movies (a trip halfway across the country in my case). It remains, along with seeing NAPOLEON at the Kennedy Center with a full orchestra, one of the greatest filmgoing experiences of my life.

 

[Dennis Gallagher]

I don't think that is correct. He would not need three copies, just three players and TVs. Each section of the tryptich is on a separate disc. From Chris Galloway's review at the Criterion forum:

The coolest feature, though, are separate presentations for each panel of the Triptych sequence in full high-definition: Disc 1 presents the left hand side, Disc 2 presented the center, and Disc 3 presents the right-hand side. Each is presented in the 1.33:1 aspect ratio. While the center frame is presented in a standard way with the image aligned horizontally to the center of the screen, the left panel is aligned to the right side of the screen and the right panel is aligned to the left side of the screen. I’m not sure if this is why they put each panel on each disc, but if you had the equipment (three television screens and three Blu-ray players) you could play the full Triptych sequence across three screens. Even if you can’t do that it’s great just getting the full blown frame and it’s fairly fun to watch each panel on its own.

OK. I stand corrected and I understand now. (FWIW - I've never actually devoted the six hours or so required to view this. Another one I've purchased to "support the cause".)

 

[Dennis Gallagher]

I was lucky enough to see Harvey run two Cinerama shows at the New Neon theater in Dayton 20 some years ago. It was impressive on many levels, not the least that one man was doing what it normally took at least four men to do (three projectors and a separate sound element). My non-cinema friends still cannot fathom why I would go to Dayton to see movies (a trip halfway across the country in my case). It remains, along with seeing NAPOLEON at the Kennedy Center with a full orchestra, one of the greatest filmgoing experiences of my life.

Similar experiences here. I drove 11 hours across Pennsylvania in early January to the New Neon and saw "Napoleon" at Radio City on its second go-round in 1981. (I also took a tour of the Library of Congress A-V Conservation Center in Culpeper, VA in 2018 and expressed my appreciation then to Larry Smith - who's now working in Culpeper and was running the New Neon at the time of John Harvey's most amazing presentations - and who had convinced John to move Cinerama from his home to the New Neon.

 

[Jim*Tod]

Similar experiences here. I drove 11 hours across Pennsylvania in early January to the New Neon and saw "Napoleon" at Radio City on its second go-round in 1981. (I also took a tour of the Library of Congress A-V Conservation Center in Culpeper, VA in 2018 and expressed my appreciation then to Larry Smith - who's now working in Culpeper and was running the New Neon at the time of John Harvey's most amazing presentations - and who had convinced John to move Cinerama from his home to the New Neon.

I am only about three hours from the Library of Congress center in Culpeper but have only been there once to see a well done screening of ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST. The intro for the show was vastly better than anything I have seen at similar venues like AFI. I met and chatted with Larry Smith during my Dayton visit and had seen that he was now the repository. Nice guy and very impressive in terms of his knowledge and his dedication. Hopefully once things improve I can get back up there again.

 

[Robert Harris]

Lest anyone wish to run the ABC panels for reel thirteen as separate units, the best means would be via projection.

Generally, the projectors should be arranged to run left to right, panels C - B - A, with C and A crossing beams from left and right to hit the opposite sides of your screen.

Original sync was via bicycle chains. Might still work but haven't attempted.

 

[Dennis Gallagher]

I am only about three hours from the Library of Congress center in Culpeper but have only been there once to see a well done screening of ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST. The intro for the show was vastly better than anything I have seen at similar venues like AFI. I met and chatted with Larry Smith during my Dayton visit and had seen that he was now the repository. Nice guy and very impressive in terms of his knowledge and his dedication. Hopefully once things improve I can get back up there again.

The Culpeper center offers a tour once a year on the day of the Columbus Day holiday (at least they did back in pre-pandemic times.) Definitely a worthwhile trek for someone so close. A geek like me would have appreciated something longer but there were lots of opportunities to chat after the official tour.

 

[PMF]

[...] It remains, along with seeing NAPOLEON at the Kennedy Center with a full orchestra, one of the greatest filmgoing experiences of my life.

Enviable. In what year did this event take place? I was only aware of the BFI live-orchestral event in the UK, a few years back. Financial constraints was the sole reason for my inability to attend. Missing this event remains one of my greatest frustrations, as Carl Davis was conducting.

Similar experiences here. I drove 11 hours across Pennsylvania in early January to the New Neon and saw "Napoleon" at Radio City on its second go-round in 1981. [...]

I saw Napoleon at NYC’s Radio City Music Hall, back in 1981. WOW !!! What a testament to filmmaking, film restoration and the exhibition of film, itself; as every incarnation and venue of Napoleon continues still to be an event, for 94 years running. Indeed, the enduring fascination for Abel Gance’s astounding Napoleon has never waned nor faded away.

 

[Jim*Tod]

Enviable. In what year did this event take place? I was only aware of the BFI live-orchestral event in the UK, a few years back. Financial constraints was the sole reason for my inability to attend. Missing this event remains one of my greatest frustrations, as Carl Davis was conducting.

I saw Napoleon at NYC’s Radio City Music Hall, back in 1981. WOW !!! What a testament to filmmaking and the history of film, itself; as every incarnation and venue of Napoleon still continues to be an event, for 94 years running. The enduring fascination for Abel Gance’s astounding Napoleon has never waned nor faded away.

I believe it was '81 or '82. Carmine Coppola conducted his score at the Kennedy Center. I still remembered the gasp when the screen widened for the finale. The contrapuntal images were fascinating but the panoramic moments had an incredible depth---notably when a soldier on a horse moved across a scene in the foreground. I hope I will get to experience this again in my lifetime.

 

[RichMurphy]

I believe it was '81 or '82. Carmine Coppola conducted his score at the Kennedy Center. I still remembered the gasp when the screen widened for the finale. The contrapuntal images were fascinating but the panoramic moments had an incredible depth---notably when a soldier on a horse moved across a scene in the foreground. I hope I will get to experience this again in my lifetime.

It was February of 1982, and I saw it there as well. My audience also gasped at the scene you mentioned.

Oddly enough, the only other time I have heard an audience gasp so loudly in unison was also for a silent film at the Kennedy Center. It was presenting the Lon Chaney PHANTOM OF THE OPERA with live musical accompaniment, and the big reveal, which most of us had seen before, still caught us off guard.

 

[Dennis Gallagher]

Enviable. In what year did this event take place? I was only aware of the BFI live-orchestral event in the UK, a few years back. Financial constraints was the sole reason for my inability to attend. Missing this event remains one of my greatest frustrations, as Carl Davis was conducting.

I saw Napoleon at NYC’s Radio City Music Hall, back in 1981. WOW !!! What a testament to filmmaking and the history of film, itself; as every incarnation and venue of Napoleon still continues to be an event, for 94 years running. The enduring fascination for Abel Gance’s astounding Napoleon has never waned nor faded away.

I saw it at Radio City in October 1981 after its premiere in January of that year. This was a version somewhere around 4 hours and shown at 24 frames/second rather than the 20 of the BFI version. As alluded earlier in this discussion, this featured Carmine Coppola's score and an amazing 60 piece orchestra playing the entire time except for occasional breaks when the theater's organists would take over. (WOW indeed!) The BFI version (with Carl Davis conducting his score) played at the Oakland Paramount in 2012. I'm so sorry I missed that one.

‘Napoleon’ conquers the Paramount in Oakland

‘Napoleon’ conquers the Paramount in Oakland

www.mercurynews.com

(Meanwhile, I'm preparing my BFI discs now so I can actually watch them. I had initially planned to have some hardcore silent film geeks over to spend a Sunday afternoon with this but the pandemic says it's time I watched it by myself. I can make the 4x3 parts somewhat smaller than standard then stop the projector and use a new memory setting before the Polyvision sequence begins. Kind of inelegant but the best I can do on a budget.)

 

[bujaki]

I was at the Radio City showing in 1981 and at the Oakland one in 2012. Nothing in my film-going experience has compared to either one.
Sheer, orgasmic exhilaration!

 

[Stefan Andersson]

I posted this in another thread, but if you are curious about the various versions, etc. of Napoleon, go here: https://www.cinematheque.fr/article/662.html. It is a lengthy article that contains this eye-popping sentence: "In all, 22 versions of the film have currently been identified, without including the versions created in the Central European countries and Russia (these are under study) and numerous distributor mutilations."

There's also this video from the SF Film Festival in 2016 where George Mourier goes into deep discussion on the various restorations of the Napoleon. https://www.cinematheque.fr/video/1438.html

Here's a French TV doc on the restoration. I don't speak French, but there is a lot of great footage:

The French TV news clip linked to above has a wonderful glimpse of the restored "Shadows of the Convention" scene.

There is also a brief glimpse at 02:03 of how a few seconds of film are reconstructed, cutting from a print from the Cinematheque to one from New York (for just three frames) and back to the Cinematheque print. Chief restorer Georges Mourier talks about using 4-5 different sources for the scene shown on the PC screen.

Otherwise it´s mostly a recapitulation of the 10-year restoration work, 1 000 reels catalogued, over 100 sources consulted (it doesn´t say if it is 100 prints or 100 various sources).

More info in French here (it says that the French restoration will run about 7 hours):
Abel Gance : les rêves de Napoléon en polyvision enfin restaurés (franceculture.fr)

A 146-minute lecture in French -- Mourier speaks about the restoration -- includes examples of restoration of the Marseillaise sequence and other scenes:
L’Invention d’une restauration : le « Napoléon » d’Abel Gance. Conférence de Georges Mourier on Vimeo

Mourier lecture in English:
La restauration du « Napoléon » d'Abel Gance. Conférence de Georges Mourier - La Cinémathèque française (cinematheque.fr)

Reconstruction de la scène de La Marseillaise dans le « Napoléon » d'Abel Gance. Conférence de Georges Mourier (2/2) - La Cinémathèque française (cinematheque.fr)

Netflix in France to (partially?) fund the restoration:
Bande2Ciné på Twitter: "La Cinémathèque Netflix partners with Cinematheque on Gance's Napoleon restoration - NitrateVille.com vient d'annoncer que Netflix France devient mécène de cette dernière pour restaurer et reconstruire le film culte "Napoléon" d'Abel Gance avec le CNC. Des projections ou master class devraient aussi être au programme. Une bonne chose selon vous ? https://t.co/wcjim3xT6Z" / Twitter

Other sources:
Joel Daire.pdf (fiafnet.org) - link from Wikipedia article on Napoleon
La Comète Napoléon (fiafnet.org) - link from Wikipedia article on Napoleon
The Napoleon Comet Georges Mourier - FIAF (yumpu.com)

Microsoft Word - NAPOLEON handout FINAL.docx (telluridecms-production.s3.amazonaws.com)

« Napoléon » d'Abel Gance : la lumière retrouvée ? Intervention de Georges Mourier - La Cinémathèque française (cinematheque.fr)

La comète « Napoléon » : restauration du film d'Abel Gance - La Cinémathèque française (cinematheque.fr)

Most videos linked to above are in unsubtitled French. There is interesting video of the restoration to see.

Relevant discussions:
Napoléon (Abel Gance, 1927) - Page 13 - (criterionforum.org)

Netflix partners with Cinematheque on Gance's Napoleon restoration - NitrateVille.com


I believe the Cinematheque Francaise restoration, supervised by Georges Mourier, is utilizing material not available to Kevin Brownlow (approx. 50 boxes of film reels, plus original continuity notes). They´re also aware of the fact that there were separate negatives for the Opéra and Apollo versions. Regrettably, I have no link for this info. If memory serves, it is mentioned in the English-language Mourier lecture linked to above.

 

[Angelo Colombus]

I saw this on the web this morning about the current restoration of Napoleon.

Epic film restoration for 7-hour Napoleon classic

 

[battlebeast]

Now I want to see this film!

 

[Robert Harris]

I saw this on the web this morning about the current restoration of Napoleon.

Epic film restoration for 7-hour Napoleon classic

What is the potential audience for live performances of a seven hour film, and how might it be accessed?

 

[Stephen_J_H]

What is the potential audience for live performances of a seven hour film, and how might it be accessed?

Given that Netflix is involved.........?