Children of Men - Discussion thread (1 Viewer)

[JediFonger]

the people who like this movie will like THX 1138, the people who don't like this film won't like THX 1138. so, if you've seen previously seen THX 1138, you'll love this.

 

[Tim Glover]

I loved Children of Men but thought THX 1138 was just okay. Sorry for ruining your theory.

 

[ChrisMatson]

Ditto.

 

[Chris Atkins]

Kirk, you know I love your take on film, but I feel very comfortable saying that Hollywood is a monolith when it comes to its political leanings and how those work themselves through the films that studios release.

Like you, I absolutely welcome political (or social) thought in film. But, it's my perception that the current effort is decidedly one-sided, and so I start to equate "political" with one-side of the debate, and quickly tire of the same message being hammered over and over again.

Yes, there are those rare films that come at things from the other side. And, yes, there are some films which are completely apolitical. But I think the bulk of the "message" films coming out of Hollywood are coming at it from one-side of the aisle.

 

[Chad R]

It's a cautionary tale that sometimes our ideology, and fervent quest to convince others of it, runs the risk of us losing our humanity. Like the Nazi's during the Holocaust, like America during slavery (it's no accident Kee was black), etc.

 

[Stephen_L]

Chad, one small disagreement. I distinguish the Fishes, who seemed to be mostly 'cod' or British, based on the primarily British accents (Ejiofor, the motorcycle guy, midwife lady, etc. ;Ms. Moore being the exception)

 

[JonZ]

"Unlike the opinions of some posters, the political elements Cuaron slips into the background (and they are there) are trivial in the face of the human story in the foreground"

This is the way I see it as well. Its background for a future that COULD happen based on current events/state of the world. I dont think its propaganda, simply the directors vision of the future.

Had The Road Warrior or even Blade Runner been made today, they would be very different films.

"If you saw little character development for Theo, you weren't paying enough attention."

Definitely. A great performance by Owen. I though he was wonderful.


This film has alot of unanswered questions but I agree, its the jounrey that makes it worthwhile. This is really only part of a bigger story but in my mind that doesnt make it a failure at all - it just leaves more for individual imagination/interpretation. Other films like this that come to mind (its early)are Ronin and Broken Flowers - we dont get all the answers, and thats ok.

 

[UngersPride]

Half-way through the movie the director finally heads along this path.

Still, apart from a few good action sequences, this is an OK film. A film I never want to see again.

 

[UngersPride]

Hmmmm....

Blade Runner is a timeless, beautifully crafted work of art and Children of Men doesn't even come close.

 

[JonZ]

"Blade Runner is a timeless, beautifully crafted work of art and Children of Men doesn't even come close."

I agree. Its one of the greatest films ever made. Ive been saying that since the 80s. Its also worth pointing out that people didnt always feel that way about that film.In fact until I came to HTF in the late 90s I couldnt find anyone else who did like the film the way I do.

But anyway my point was that I saw it as a reflection of what the films creators see a possible future based on whats going on in the world - a "how did we get here" backdrop, not propaganda.

Another example is Terminator - made during the 80s where everyone seemed worried about Nuclear War. COM a 2006 reflects the current state of events - Middle East crisis.

 

[Rich Malloy]

Middle East crisis + globalization issues + environmental degradation + border policy/immigration + gulag/concentration camps + torture of dissidents... among the many current political issues that "Children of Men" confronts. I have no idea how anyone can claim this film to be apolitical. Or, for that matter, even-handed in its approach.

"Heavy-handed" is a more accurate designation, but some suggest this to be a negative. Not me. Any director who confronts subject matter like this with some sort of "equal time" approach - that is, who tries to give equal weight to all viewpoints with the hope of offending none - is not a filmmaker I'm interested in granting the time of day. I rue the fact that anything of controversy is generally focus-grouped out of domestic films financed by the larger studios. It's killing American cinema, or at least reducing it to a bland homogeneity of thought and constricted range of acceptable subject matter (which I accept is neither an unpopular nor unproductive approach if your only concern is putting meat in the seats). But I don't care if certain political POVs come in for a thorough drubbing, or if certain factions of the audience get pissed-off as a result. I'd like to see more writers/directors grow some semblance of a spine and put their politics on the line. For that matter, I'd like to see a bit of that within the fourth estate and the opposition party. You know, before they simply play catch-up to realign with public opinion.

And I think Cuaron has done so. And just in case you didn't ferret out all his intentions, he provided a handy documentary "The Possibility of Hope" on the dvd that spells everything out a bit too neatly and probably unnecessarily. But with Slavoj Zizek, et al., acting as ciphers, Cuaron gets his precise points across. Quite unnecessary I thought on first viewing, but given the resistance to the mere notion that the film is political, perhaps a bit more necessary than I'd imagined.

 

[ChrisWiggles]

I definitely agree. It is a very political film, and it's political in a much stronger way than Hollywood films sometimes are. I certainly am of the perspective that Hollywood is not a very political place, with some exceptions both right and left, I think Cuaron brings a strength of political perspective that undergird his films in a very fascinating way. His previous film Y Tu Mama Tambien was extremely interesting in this regard, indeed very similar to this film. In that film, the main plot was a road trip of two young men/boys with an older woman, all three of whom were among the Mexican high society, and at various times in the film he breaks the progression of the plot and in the "background" of the film is the sort of underbelly reality of what's going on in Mexico underneath the sort of coming-of-age story of the road trip that these boys are on. Part of it is to highlight their isolation from political reality and despair/protest on the streets of Mexico City.

Children of Men has a similar kind of thing going on, though it's not as contrasted in terms of the isolation of the main characters, they're kind of wandering neck-deep through the messy politics of the situation. Clearly Cuaron is making some strong statements that reference today, part of the reason why the film is not very futuristic at all, it is a very recognizable place that if it reminds you of anything, reminds you of places in today's world. The immigration commentary is obviously very strong, the Homeland Security allusions are overt (indeed the label is used on the buses and other places), the Abu Ghraib connection is very obvious and strong, etc. Certainly I welcome politically relevant artistic commentaries, and I think Cuaron is one of the directors working right now who does it the best, in a way bloated hollywood and their ridiculous films like Crash simply cannot match as Hollywood so often just deals with politics in Archetypes, or in reactionary revisionism as with Forrest Gump and the like. So in that sense, Cuaron is very very far from the pathetic way that Hollywood mainstream occassionally brings up political relevant topics, and I think he does it extremely well and not in a superficial way.

 

[Jack Gilvey]

Whatever you do, don't read the book first.

 

[Rich Malloy]

You make a great point. Given the superficial differences between these two films, it's not a connection I'd previously made - even though "Y Tu Mama Tambien" was my favorite film of that year, and remains one of my favorites of recent vintage.

Of lessor importance, it helps support the notion of Cuaron's auteurism, whether he's merely an impressive hired gun of a director or whether he has something very personal to say in a style of his own making. Prior to "Children" - and your astute observations - I could only point to "Tambien" in this regard.

 

[andrew markworthy]

The book is if anything deeply religious and points out that beyond all squabbling about which political faction is correct are deeper issues of the fundamental miracle of life.

Incidentally, at the risk of being flamed, I've got to make a cultural observation here. At least one of the commentators on this thread has in the past approved of movies where Brits get their asses kicked for their imperialist ways, and if a Brit says anything in protest then it's a case of 'get a sense of humour, dude'. But make a few criticisms of one American political standpoint (not America per se) in a film fundamentally about the dangers of intolerance, and boy, watch the feathers fly! Come on, guys, what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. The rest of the world can take criticism without seeing it as an act of ingratitude or absolute hatred - why can't you?

 

[Holadem]

Hey! That's terrorist talk!

--
H

 

[Rich Malloy]

Andrew, we have a nice resort down Cuba way for fellas like you, with accomodations nearly as quaint as the Geneva conventions. Do you care for, er, "watersports"?

Oh yeah, and you can take your so-called "great writ" and shove it! We don't need no habeas for our corpses.

 

[ChrisWiggles]

lol, you need some sarcastic smileys...

 

[Rich Malloy]

I'm certain Andrew gets both the sarcasm and the intentional malaprop.

(EDIT: But I hope no one thinks I'm minimizing these issues by joking about them. The selling out of what I've always taken to be core American principles - of Anglo origin, certainly - is really no laughing matter for me.)

 

[ChrisWiggles]