Charade - 50th Anniversary Edition - Universal 2013 Blu ray release (1 Viewer)

[Will Krupp]

This is all very puzzling to me....

 

[DavidJ]

Fascinating screen caps not a one of which resembles one whit the color on either the Criterion or Universal - not in those caps, sorry. Read the reviews of this title and its color and then tell me how the drab, lifeless color on the caps you've posted can reflect what the reviewers have said and what everyone on these forums have said - great color. Maybe it's my iMac 27-inch monitor displaying your caps incorrectly, but since I visit many sites and images look and great and accurate on them, I somehow doubt it. Which is why I don't take caps at any value and why Will Krupp is right - there are differences between the two - very minor, but there.

I just glanced at his caps (which BTW, I don't usually bother with screen caps and don't use them to make decisions about moving images) and they are not at all lifeless or drab on my screen. Granted, I'm not looking at them on my calibrated proofing monitor or anything, but I'd be a little surprised if they were lifeless on it.

 

[FoxyMulder]

I've now compared both - just spot checking - I'll watch the Universal in its entirety in a day or so. But my cursory look reveals - same transfer. That's the simple part. Color is VERY close on each and from what I saw, I really have no preference because the differences are so tiny and minuscule to my eye. Both have the same sharpness and clarity, at least in my spot check.

My screencaps are identical to the ones you will find at sites like Hundland, Cinema Squid, Land Of Whimsy etc etc, the sites that know how to take them, not my fault if your monitor is set up differently and the results are not to your liking, there is no difference in colour between these two discs, none, nada, not a single bit of difference, not sure why you see drab colours.

Fascinating screen caps not a one of which resembles one whit the color on either the Criterion or Universal - not in those caps, sorry. Read the reviews of this title and its color and then tell me how the drab, lifeless color on the caps you've posted can reflect what the reviewers have said and what everyone on these forums have said - great color.

Examples.

Cinema Squid - Lawrence Of Arabia screencaps.

http://www.cinemasquid.com/blu-ray/movies/screenshots/sets/lawrence-of-arabia/fad29f05-3ef0-44ef-8913-ad3f28bb0916/24ccc145-db8d-4382-831b-f822da33167c

My site - screencap of same scene, colour is identical.

http://www.darkrealmfox.com/film_reviews/wp-content/images/lawrenceofarabia_pics/loa_3.jpg?039840

I take screencaps to a standard which other good sites follow ( except DVD Beaver which can get it very wrong at times )

I didn't hear you complain about my Zulu screencaps which i remember you thinking were accurate enough, you certainly said they looked very good to you, suddenly you are saying they now look drab and not representative of the images you see, something wrong there ( monitor ) or you are just doing this to insult me, probably the latter as you have done so in the past.

The point of showing the above caps from my site and Cinema Squid is that two different sites can produce identical results, this in my opinion gives a legitimacy to taking screencaps, the rest is down to differences in viewing monitors but no matter the differences the results should be consistent, drab on one person's monitor, but all the caps should look drab, perfect and vibrant on another person's monitor but all the caps will look that way, the results are still consistent and do not vary,

 

[Douglas R]

Stepping in here, in a state of total ignorance (as if that stopped anyone from making comments!) and I don't have the discs but why should there be any difference between the two? As Universal hold the original elements, would they not have prepared the master for Criterion in the first place?

 

[FoxyMulder]

Stepping in here, in a state of total ignorance (as if that stopped anyone from making comments!) and I don't have the discs but why should there be any difference between the two? As Universal hold the original elements, would they not have prepared the master for Criterion in the first place?

The only way there would be a difference is if Universal changed anything for their release, my painstakingly taken screencaps prove this is not the case, i just don't understand how people can argue the point when you go to the trouble of doing a comparison which shows everything to be the same, it's almost like the dark ages and trying to prove the Earth is round but coming up against skeptics who claim it's flat.

 

[haineshisway]

I've said everything I'm going to about screen caps - if people like to have them, grand. If screen caps appear differently on every person's monitor or viewing device then what possible good can they be in assessing anything because Foxy will say they look great and vibrant and I will say they look drab because we are not viewing them the same. Furthermore, I will reiterate that the Charade source material is most likely exactly the same - what may not be the same is the authoring - that no one but Universal and Criterion knows. To me there looked like a slight variation in color occasionally - it looked that way to others, too, including at least one "reviewer." But it doesn't really matter because as I said in my easy to read original post, the differences (if there are any) are so minuscule that I can't imagine anyone having the Criterion would need the Universal and vice versa. I did not do a side by side comparison flipping back and forth - I put one in, watched one scene, put the other in, watched the same scene. The other gentleman who has done the flipping back and forth and side by side definitely sees a difference on the SAME monitor. Perhaps that's a player anomaly although I wouldn't think that possible, or perhaps the two different authorings made a subtle color shift - the same color shift that the reviewer mentioned in his review. Again, it's too minor to even care about.

I'll leave the screen caps to those who painstakingly take them for whatever reasons - they are of no use to me. I get the disc, watch the disc in motion with my own eyeballs and judge the transfer that way. I will never ever judge a transfer on still images. And that's the end of that.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

After spending 10 hours setting up those comparisons, I think we can take it as read that there ain't no difference in colour.

haineshisway, so you are saying subjective opinion will over rule scientific evidence any day?

 

[FoxyMulder]

If screen caps appear differently on every person's monitor or viewing device then what possible good can they be in assessing anything because Foxy will say they look great and vibrant and I will say they look drab because we are not viewing them the same.

You basically put me down with your words in the post before this one, i will accept an apology anytime you want to give it, until then i feel i have proved conclusively there is absolutely no difference between the Criterion and Universal discs.

I have also checked both discs, on three different displays, on a 60 inch plasma, on a 104inch projector screen and on a 17 inch Sony Vaio 1080p laptop screen, i have used four different blu ray players, one in the laptop, a Panasonic, a PS3 and an Oppo, all of which are setup correctly, no difference whatsoever, i have spent 10 hours making a screencap comparison to show all this and yet you for some reason want to doubt the evidence that the comparison provides.

You don't like screencaps, i get it, yet you will use them to prove a point when it suits you as seen in some other threads, Zulu, where you say the caps look great to you, of course when it doesn't suit you, then you rally against their use, okay i truly get it.

I wonder, how can my Zulu caps look great and yet you feel the Charade caps are drab and lifeless, i wonder a lot about that.

I should have said that screencaps do not appear different on everyones monitor, apparently just your monitor.

Incidentally i can think of a reason for why someone might set both discs up to a television and view a difference, let's say you have two blu ray players and connect each one to a different HDMI input to do a comparison by switching between each input, if those 2 HDMI inputs are not calibrated identically you may see a difference, you may also see a very mild difference if one of your players is a Panasonic and you have chroma upsampling switched on, other than this i am not sure why you would see any difference when there is none.

 

[Persianimmortal]

I'm not sure what the argument is here. It's true that screencaps may not be an accurate reflection of what each person sees on their own screen, or on a properly calibrated screen. But a comparison of the two discs using screencaps taken under identical conditions will objectively show any difference between the two transfers, and in this case there obviously is none.

 

[haineshisway]

You basically put me down with your words in the post before this one, i will accept an apology anytime you want to give it, until then i feel i have proved conclusively there is absolutely no difference between the Criterion and Universal discs.

I have also checked both discs, on three different displays, on a 60 inch plasma, on a 104inch projector screen and on a 17 inch Sony Vaio 1080p laptop screen, i have used four different blu ray players, one in the laptop, a Panasonic, a PS3 and an Oppo, all of which are setup correctly, no difference whatsoever, i have spent 10 hours making a screencap comparison to show all this and yet you for some reason want to doubt the evidence that the comparison provides.

You don't like screencaps, i get it, yet you will use them to prove a point when it suits you as seen in some other threads, Zulu, where you say the caps look great to you, of course when it doesn't suit you, then you rally against their use, okay i truly get it.

I wonder, how can my Zulu caps look great and yet you feel the Charade caps are drab and lifeless, i wonder a lot about that.

I should have said that screencaps do not appear different on everyones monitor, apparently just your monitor.

Incidentally i can think of a reason for why someone might set both discs up to a television and view a difference, let's say you have two blu ray players and connect each one to a different HDMI input to do a comparison by switching between each input, if those 2 HDMI inputs are not calibrated identically you may see a difference, you may also see a very mild difference if one of your players is a Panasonic and you have chroma upsampling switched on, other than this i am not sure why you would see any difference when there is none.

When I put someone down there is no "basically" about it. I did not put you down. The only thing I put down is screen caps and I'm not discussing them anymore. Even in the Zulu thread I believe I said something along the lines of I don't do caps but those caps look good or whatever. I have never EVER wavered in my loathing screen caps. I watch motion pictures with an emphasis on the motion. Really no need to discuss this anymore is there - I said early on in this thread, perhaps one of the first to say that the source material is the same.

 

[FoxyMulder]

When I put someone down there is no "basically" about it. I did not put you down. The only thing I put down is screen caps and I'm not discussing them anymore. Even in the Zulu thread I believe I said something along the lines of I don't do caps but those caps look good or whatever. I have never EVER wavered in my loathing screen caps. I watch motion pictures with an emphasis on the motion. Really no need to discuss this anymore is there - I said early on in this thread, perhaps one of the first to say that the source material is the same.

You claim there is a small colour difference, my screencaps prove this is not the case, i have also given you a possible explanation for why people might see a slight difference in colour related to calibration and using two different HDMI inputs, i consider it an insult because you still refuse to acknowledge the work i have done and instead continue to debase that work, if you want to say there is a mild colour difference then prove it, prove my screencaps are inaccurate or acknowledge they are correct and acknowledge there is absolutely no difference.

 

[haineshisway]

You claim there is a small colour difference, my screencaps prove this is not the case, i have also given you a possible explanation for why people might see a slight difference in colour related to calibration and using two different HDMI inputs, i consider it an insult because you still refuse to acknowledge the work i have done and instead continue to debase that work, if you want to say there is a mild colour difference then prove it, prove my screencaps are inaccurate or acknowledge they are correct and acknowledge there is absolutely no difference.

It is not in my job description to acknowledge the work you've done - it may be important to you, but it isn't to me. I don't know how much clearer I can be. I don't care about screen caps, I don't care about what you or anyone else perceives as the result of the screen caps and the work involved. If it makes you happy to do what you do then that should be all the acknowledgement you need. I have not "debased" the work you've done, I've debased the idea of screen caps - it's not a secret how I feel about them and I'm not changing how I feel about them ever. If people want to judge transfers based on screen caps then that's just dandy. There are, as you know, people who ONLY judge transfers based on screen caps - they never actually buy Blu-rays at all. I understand what you're saying about the small color difference and if that's what's causing several of us to post that we see it, then that's what's causing several of us to post that we see it. I cannot acknowledge your screen caps are correct because I don't know enough about screen caps to know whether they are or aren't, but that is bypassing the real point - I don't care about screen caps - yours or other people's or other sites'. I just don't care. They do not interest me. You're obviously not going to get what you want from me so I think maybe it's time to move on. I'm not trying to be obstinate or stubborn, but you are demanding that I respond to you in a certain way and I find that rather, how shall I put it, presumptuous. I am, of course, always available to carry on this conversation by private message so we're not boring others to tears.

 

[John Hermes]

Oh, good. I thought the Haineshisway-FoxyMulder I-got-to-get-the-last-word-on-this-subject battle was over. Of course not, that's not possible.

 

[FoxyMulder]

I'm not sure what the argument is here. It's true that screencaps may not be an accurate reflection of what each person sees on their own screen, or on a properly calibrated screen. But a comparison of the two discs using screencaps taken under identical conditions will objectively show any difference between the two transfers, and in this case there obviously is none.

This is exactly right, i wish to add that mouseover screencap comparisons allow the viewer to interact and see any real world differences, they can be a very effective medium to show the real story when review sites claim to see differences, hopefully those who dislike screencaps will at least come round to admitting how effective they can be.

When a top review site claims a colour difference and there isn't any and a mouseover comparison proves this then it provides useful feedback for the entire community who can then make a better informed decision on whether to buy the title or not.

Oh, good. I thought the Haineshisway-FoxyMulder I-got-to-get-the-last-word-on-this-subject battle was over. Of course not, that's not possible.

Chill out John, it's just a conversation on a forum.

 

[John Hermes]

This is exactly right, i wish to add that mouseover screencap comparisons allow the viewer to interact and see any real world differences, they can be a very effective medium to show the real story when review sites claim to see differences, hopefully those who dislike screencaps will at least come round to admitting how effective they can be.

When a top review site claims a colour difference and there isn't any and a mouseover comparison proves this then it provides useful feedback for the entire community who can then make a better informed decision on whether to buy the title or not.



Chill out John, it's just a conversation on a forum.

Me chill out? Take a look at this repetitive drone that's gone on for two pages.

 

[FoxyMulder]

Me chill out? Take a look at this repetitive drone that's gone on for two pages.

It's called chat, people discuss things, if you don't like it then there are plenty of other threads to spend your time on, you consider it repetitive drone, that's fine, i call it a debate, one which had reached it's end, why even bring all this up unless you just wanted a response from me, well you got it. Live and let live, hit the ignore button on me and Haine if our chat offends you.

 

[FilmArchivist]

"No difference in colour, here is my screencap comparison, exact same transfer with very small difference when viewing the caps to grain structure in some scenes, not noticeable in motion, this is due to VC-1 codec vs AVC codec and not any DNR being applied to the transfer.

http://www.darkrealmfox.com/film_reviews/2013/07/31/hd-comparisons-charade/"

Hello everyone. I just joined the forum. Looks like an informative and fun place.

I think I am missing something because I went to your site Foxy and only see one set of grabs.

For example, with the first grab, "charade1.html". It says that when I hover and also says "charade1.html" when I click to make it larger.

Where is the second photo of it compairing the two different versions of the film by Criterion and Universal ?

Thanks for any clarification on how to do it .

 

[AnthonyClarke]

I thought the same thing as you .. that I was missing something.
Then I checked the file size of the image before and after the click ... totally different, so therefore two separate images that look identical. And that, I guess, proves the poster's point that the transfers are identical ....

 

[willyTass]

they look identical to me universal vs criterion

 

[FoxyMulder]

Hello everyone. I just joined the forum. Looks like an informative and fun place.

I think I am missing something because I went to your site Foxy and only see one set of grabs.

For example, with the first grab, "charade1.html". It says that when I hover and also says "charade1.html" when I click to make it larger.

Where is the second photo of it compairing the two different versions of the film by Criterion and Universal ?

Thanks for any clarification on how to do it .

That's the html file not the image file, in your browser it will say charade1.html, charade 2.html etc etc all the way to 20, the image files are in a folder called dvd_bluray comparisons, so for example click the two different links below for two different images of the same scene, one is Universal, one is Criterion, i simply bring the images together for a mouseover comparison, i use Dreamweaver for that and those files are used on the website and link to html files which hold the mouseover comparison of the two images.

http://www.darkrealmfox.com/dvd_bluray_comparisons/charade/charade_universal_19.jpg

http://www.darkrealmfox.com/dvd_bluray_comparisons/charade/charade_criterion_19.jpg

Simply replace each number at the end for a different image, easier to use a mouseover but if you prefer use the above way.

Click the small image to see the larger image at my site, it may then require a second click for the full size depending on your browser and settings, i certainly have to click it again for full size, after this you hover your mouse on the image and hover it off, that's how you see the comparison, it works best if you have a 1920x1080 resolution or higher than that display.