Can Amazon stand above the fray and make sense of the Android / tablet mess? (1 Viewer)

[ManW_TheUncool]

In that case, if I were Google and/or B&N, I'd probably wanna work extra hard (and quickly) on a mutually beneficial deal and partnership to turn the Nook Color line into a much stronger competitor in the same space as Amazon's Kindle Fire (to promote both B&N and Google).

Heck, maybe Google would even consider just buying B&N outright -- they would not be the first to consider that anyhow, and if they don't, somebody else very well may...

_Man_

 

[Hanson]

By-passing the Google Market is to adhere to Google's restriction for non-Google approved Android devices and not necessarily something Amazon is trying to circumvent. Market is owned and operated by Google and is not a native part of Android. While I understand that Amazon wants to promote their own app store anyway, disallowing in-app Market purchases is part and parcel with disallowing programs that require a video camera or mic -- those components are not in the Kindle Fire.

 

[DaveF]

But it's judo: Amazon is using Google's terms against them. The point of those restrictions by Google is to motivate OEMs to use Android as Google sees fit. Amazon is flipping it on its head, and using that to kick Google out of what might be the most important Android tablet system for the next year or two.

 

[mattCR]

Bingo. Google feels no pain from say a crap no-name tablet not being able to get their store. It helps their brand. Losing access to a tablet that is selling briskly and will outnumber any other android tablet (by a boat race) by Christmas isn't quite what they were looking for.

 

[Hanson]

The Kindle Fire absolutely hits Google where it lives. Although it is technically running Android, it is not an Android tablet in the proper (Google) sense, and it will eat market share from them. The Fire, more than the iPad, will hurt Google's ability to gain a substantial foothold in the tablet market by virtue of the $199 price tag alone. What Google tablet manufacturer can compete with a $10 loss per device or an impulse buy price point?

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

That's why I think Google should probably work w/ B&N and forget about their original plans for Android. B&N should already be super-motivated to do so as soon as the rumors began for Amazon's tablet. And now, Google should either try to go that route before it's waaaay too late or just give up on the tablet market and refocus on smartphones (and other more portable devices) instead. B&N will probably need plenty of help on the tech side in order to put up much of any fight. Maybe Google + Samsung (or perhaps Acer or some other big manufacturer w/out the big mainstream brand name) + B&N should partner together. Actually, wasn't Liberty Media, who owns Starz(?), interested in buying B&N? If they still are, maybe it'd be Google + H/W maker + Liberty/B&N -- and the non-B&N part of Liberty could provide video streaming content and such...

_Man_

 

[DaveF]

Apple can make a great product, in part, because they understand the iPhone is the product and I'm the customer. Amazon is a retailer and understands books are the product and I'm the customer.

Google teaming up with any retailer poses the obvious problem that they've got different DNA: For Google, I'm the product and advertisers are the customer. That's a fundamental conflict they've got in creating a great product that people want to buy. this view motivates all of Android so far: get a mobile OS out in the hands of everyone so there's more search going through google (to sell me to the advertisers).


Google doesn't want a Fire. They don't want a B&N Smouldering Ash (tm) device. They don't want to sell books. They want to advertise. How do they flip this, then, to create a great customer-oriented system where the goal is not to sell me, but sell to me?

And I've seen Amazon's online experience only get worse as they get ensnared in this, and cross-promote third-party sellers, and advertise on their site. The KSO also blurs the line with who they understand their true customer to be.

(and no philosophical argument; I use Gmail. I use Facebook. I have a Kindle SO)

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

The key will of course be whether Google, B&N (or someone else), some 3rd party H/W maker, et al. can find enough of a multi-way symbiotic relationship to partner together and succeed -- basically, form their own true/complete ecosystem to compete w/ Amazon (and at some level, Apple).

They don't (and shouldn't) all have to target directly to the average consumer for their part of that system. Not saying it'd be easy or even necessarily doable under the circumstance -- maybe Google still feels like they have more to gain in going some other direction instead for instance -- but it probably behooves B&N at the very least to give something like that a good try since their long term health and survival are probably very much at stake here (unless somebody buys them out and completely turns them inside-out or something).

I would think Google shouldn't/wouldn't want to quit on the tablet marketspace just like that w/out putting up some fight. And some H/W maker will want a piece of whatever substantial action if Google would partner w/ a significant content provider (or a dozen) going forward. To me, seems like the pieces should fit together, if Google actually has a desire to go that route to salvage the situation...

_Man_

 

[Hanson]

I don't think Google is going to give up the tablet market. If tablets become the de facto consumer browser device (which is a good bet), there is no way Google is going to move away from it.

 

[Ted Todorov]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanson /t/311127/can-amazon-stand-above-the-fray-and-make-sense-of-the-android-tablet-mess/120#post_3859327
I don't think Google is going to give up the tablet market. If tablets become the de facto consumer browser device (which is a good bet), there is no way Google is going to move away from it.

Their only hope at this point is to close source Android for good (and endure any GPL related lawsuits and geeks turning on them), and hope that they can develop faster based on their 3.x Android codebase than Amazon can on the 2.x codebase they have in the Fire. I am convinced that Android as a whole has been a disastrous long term strategic mistake on Google's part. Google are overall losing money on it, when you count R&D costs, legal costs, buying Motorola costs, bribing carriers to use Google instead of Bing on their Android devices vs. incremental ad revenue increases due to Android based browsing.

Keep in mind that before Android, Apple was Google's number one partner/ally, with top people on each others boards and ever deeper Google integration into iOS to look forward to. As is, even with Apple/Google on each other's throats, Google is still making more money from iOS devices than they do from Android ones.

 

[mattCR]

5 MILLION units.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-20120294-64/kindle-fire-forecast-bumped-to-5m-units-in-q4/

The Kindle fire will in one quarter outsell all honeycomb/authorized tablets combined.

http://www.slashgear.com/googles-honeycomb-offensive-musters-just-3-4m-tablets-14188065/

Think about that. How long do you think until developers cater to Amazon FAR ahead of Google Android generic?

 

[DaveF]

Wow.

 

[Sam Posten]

=) Sweet. Glad I got in on day one.
There are a buncha knucklehead senators barking at them about Silk tho...
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/10/congress-wary-of-amazons-silk-browser-demands-answers-on-privacy.ars

 

[mattCR]

It does allow you to turn it off. But considering that now tier1 ISPs are all under the requirement of keeping firewalled connection logs in case of subpeona, I'm not sure how this is much more of an invasion of privacy then that. At least Amazon is telling people and letting them opt out. And, if you are OK with the first, then the rules of the second still apply, only a subpeona breaks those records... and I can't picture many people using a Kindle for piracy purposes.

Originally Posted by Sam Posten /t/311127/can-amazon-stand-above-the-fray-and-make-sense-of-the-android-tablet-mess/150#post_3860887
=) Sweet. Glad I got in on day one.
There are a buncha knucklehead senators barking at them about Silk tho...
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/10/congress-wary-of-amazons-silk-browser-demands-answers-on-privacy.ars

 

[Sam Posten]

Right, that's what Chrome Incognito is for!

 

[mattCR]

Amazon may not be able to produce enough.. word is that the pre-order race is pushing them well over 5 Million, and they may not be able to deliver all to meet demand.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/19/amazon-idUSN1E79I1HD20111019

Amazon is offering 1 month free Prime with each purchase, etc. etc. etc. But the price totals are now out: Amazon is losing $10 on each one it sells. So, selling 5M units is a $50M loss to Amazon. This however, assumes that the user will make at least $10 in profit to them later. It's really not bad math for Amazon, which hopes it's Prime subscriptions and Apps sell well, where it makes a decent percent, compared to books/etc. where it's down to 5% profit and less.

 

[TonyD]

Will this be available anywhere for us to try before buying or is it just going to be buy it to try it?

 

[Sam Posten]

It goes through them first but BestBuy, Target and Walmart all have the new Touch Kindles in store, I'm sure when supply increases the Fire will be in store too.

 

[mattCR]

You have to admit, whoever does their ads does a DAMN good job of them.



FYI: Pre-Orders @ Best Buy are getting a $50 Gift card with pre-order, making it basically $149 out of the gate..

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Niiice. You figure they'd do something w/ the name connection. Should be *really* interesting to see how the tablet scene plays out w/ Amazon diving in like that. This is definitely an opposite approach to the whole thing from Google & Co. And I gotta think B&N must be kicking themselves for wasted time w/ their evermore lame looking headstart now even though I really wish Amazon would give us expandable memory options, if nothing else as I don't like the idea of having to rely on their cloud so much.

Still, despite the tight limit on local storage, that BB GC offer definitely makes it hard to resist now. But what's the catch though? Would it still come w/ a free month of Amazon Prime (and whatever Amazon's offering, if anything else)? Will there be a much bigger wait for the BB preorder?

_Man_