best CD/HDCD/SACD/DVDA player for $500 (1 Viewer)

[Paul.S]

Serge:

HK receivers have HDCD decoding capability

That's nice, but I'm looking for HDCD decoding in the (DVD-A/SACD) player.

Paul

 

[Serge Ch]

...I'm looking for HDCD decoding in the (DVD-A/SACD) player

Not available. Like me, you would have to get SACD/DVD-A player + CD/HDCD player. I've got Yamaha + Arcam = great tandem! That way you also put less wear on one player. Arcam is an excellent CD/HDCD player. The new model Arcam player also comes with 192khz upsampling.

 

[Paul.S]

Okay . . . If neither Sony nor Philips has made an SACD player that also incorporates HDCD decoding, then that's one part of the calculus solved.

But on the DVD-A side, I find it difficult to believe that the Mitsubishi DD-8020 is the only piece out there that plays DVD-Vs and As and also incorporates HDCD decoding.

Anyone else know of (an)other such unit(s)?

Paul

 

[gregD]

I don't think you're gonna get what you're looking for at a $500 price point.

HDCD is hard to find... partly because the technology is a few years old now, and a number of manufacturers intentionally leave it out on the premise that their own newer DACs sound as good or better than HDCD proper... I've got quite a few HDCD discs, too, and would be curious to hear the difference, but I'm not willing to spend a premium for the privelege -- my CDs sound fine for now.

You could shoot for a universal player to meet your budget (but don't count on pure DSD paths under $1k), and add an outboard DAC that has HDCD... MSB and Musical Fidelity come to mind for this purpose.

At the clunky pace hi-res is moving, I can't see good-quality $500 units happening for 5 years, at least... and I'll make a small wager HDCD will be gone by then.

 

[Dan Hitchman]

Many players that include digital bitstream upsampling don't have HDCD. Upsampling redbook CD's 44.1 kHz to 88.2 or 96 kHz is about the same as what the HDCD chip does, but benefits all CD's not just those with HDCD included.

There were rumors floating around that Sony would be releasing a new wave of SACD/CD audio players in their ES line with improved DSD decoding chips that handle digital bass management in pure DSD form. If I was looking for the best SACD performance, I'd definitely consider picking up one of their SACD only decks. I think they were considering a FireWire connector too...

Dan

 

[Brian L]

I listened to the DV45 at my local audiophile store. It sounded really good (hooked up to Rotel separates and B&W speakers). I could not tell between the 45 and the 47 in audio performance. The big defect I noticed on both was in bass management.

The 45A has some issues with BM, depending on the format of the dic, and how it was encoded (# of channels, with or without .1 channel, etc).

I am not going to even start here. If you want to know, search 45A Bass Management or 45A LFE, and you will have plenty of reading to do.

100% Solve-able with an ICBM.

BGL

 

[Carlo_M]

Unless you are ready to jump on the '45A, wait for the '563A. The DSD-to-PCM conversion concerns me in principle, but it may be implemented well.

So I guess I have two questions:

1. DSD-to-PCM is a bad thing?
2. the '563 will not do this?

Thanks a bunch (from someone who is also looking for a cheap all-in-one DVD/DVD-A/SACD player)!

 

[ReggieW]

The only player I'm aware of that will incorporate DVD-A/SACD/HDCD will be the forthcoming Denon 5900 (due in November). But from what we hear, it will probably be priced between $1500-2000. Right now, your best bet would be to get a CD player (Nad 541, Music Hall CD-25, etc or receiver (look at NAD T762 and HK models) which incorprates HDCD decoding.

Reg

 

[Paul.S]

Carlo:

1. DSD-to-PCM is a bad thing?
2. the '563 will not do this?

Re 1: Yes, it is a bad thing. I've heard mention of it arguably being necessitated by the expense of true DSD playback (in other words, bringing a universal player to market at the 563A's low price point with chipsets currently available mandates some down-rezing of the signal). I'm not sold on that premise, but the bottom line is that you are not reaping the full sonic benefits of DSD with such a downconversion. I think this issue is the audio analog (ahem) of some of the first progressive scan DVD players not being true progressive due to their converting the signal to interlaced before outputting it.

Re 2: No, the 563A *does* do this. Since there are no advance print press reviews as of this writing, we're/I'm still waiting to see how much of an issue this is going to be in terms of sound quality. I've heard there's an AVS thread about mods to the player. Yes, that's mods to a player that no one has reviewed and very few have seen.

In the past eight hours, Crutchfield.com's stock status of this player has gone from the 14th (today), to no date, to July 31st and now their site says July 16.

Reggie:

Thanks for HDCD info.!

Paul

 

[Carlo_M]

Thanks Paul,

Hmmm, Sony's new DVP-NC685(V?) is a 5 disc DVD/SACD changer and has an MSRP of $249, do you think this one will also do the DSD->PCM conversion? Or since it's Sony (co-creator of SACD) they'll keep the quality up, even with their "entry level" player?

 

[Paul.S]

And now back to July 31 again . . .

Carlo,

I doubt/would hope not re that *Sony* machine down-rezing DSD. But I have been paying more attention to the Pioneer universal player . . .

Paul

 

[Carlo_M]

One thing that worries me, Paul, is that on the sony website, it has "X" number of SADACs (Super Audio DACS) listed on the specs for all of their SACD players...except (you guessed it) the 685V. Now it could be that the model is so new (not out in stores until late July/August) that they haven't put the *full* specs on the site, but what they do have up there is pretty extensive. If it were bare-bones info I'd feel better about it being an oversight, but the stuff up there for the 685 looks pretty complete and there is no mention of # of SADACs or if there are even SADACs on the player.

I guess it's back to the waiting game...

 

[Paul.S]

Carlo:

Hmmm--good to know. Keep us posted when/if you learn anything new . . .

All:

So the player now finally appears to be "In Stock" at Crutchfield.com (I never received the 'notify me when available' e-mail I requested at the site though). Note for other Californians: a staffer at my local Good Guys! said today that they only carry car audio products from Pioneer, so they will not be stocking the DV-563A.

Paul

 

[Rodrigo Mansill]

Getting back to the HDCD problem.... I think there's no real universal disc player. There's something missing. The most missing thing is HDCD support because it's a propietary technology. It was dempany called Pacific Microsonics, and now it's part of Microsoft :frowning:

Website: Link Removed

You can see in the supported players if there's something like that you're looking for. But if you want all technologies... you have to buy all the machines.

And it's better to get the HDCD in the receiver. Selected models from Kenwood, H/K and Marantz do this. There you can use any transport with digital output to get the decodification: DVD A/V, CD, Music Server, a computer even.

A freak tip: HDCD is part of the Windows Media Player 9. If you have a 24 bit capable sound card, you can use all the possibilities of decoding there.

 

[Paul.S]

Carlo:

Re your post #32: I have since gone to two Sony sites (www.sonystyle.com and http://interprod5.imgusa.com/son-637/home.asp), looking at the specs for the five SACD players profiled at the first site (the DVP-NS999ES, the SCD-C555ES, the AVD-C70ES and -S50ES player/receivers and the DVP-NC685V) and the specs for three other players that aren't profiled there (the SCD-XA777ES, the SCD-C222ES and the DVP-NS755V) at the second site. (Is Sony's online SACD player presentation at its Websites scattered and messy on purpose? Yet another item on the long list of examples of poor SACD marketing . . .)

Let's just assume for a moment that the references to "SADACs" and "Super Audio D/A Converters" in the various players' specs refer to the same thing. (Let's also set aside the head-scratcher that is why there are often separate line items for both in one player's specs.)

You make a very interesting point. Unlike the rest of the family of players, the player/receiver combos and the entry level NC685V and NS755V's specs make no reference to "SADACs" or "Super Audio D/A Converters."

The issue here seems to me to be what do these references mean. On the one hand, they could be references to proprietary Sony DAC technology, but I don't think so given that there is no trademark logo next to these references. On the other (IMO more likely) hand, they could be references to someone else's--Cirrus, Burr Brown or some other manufacturer's--chips that Sony is using for DSD decoding. But apparently some of these chips are PCM DACs that have DSD inputs. It's therefore difficult to draw any conclusions from the presence or absence of these references in the specs of Sony's players.

One thing is for sure IMO: Sony could therefore be more thorough in their specs regarding exactly which DACs they are using in their family of SACD players.

Paul