Babylon 5 newbies? (Richard Biggs - RIP) (1 Viewer)

[Kevin Grey]

I also had no problem hearing the center channel. I was fairly impressed by the soundtrack overall, particularly the LFE.

 

[nolesrule]

Well, I picked up Season 5 today, went home and did something stupid.

I popped in dsic 6 and watched Sleeping In Light with the JMS commentary for the first time in a couple years.

Why is it stupid? Because I was a wreck afterwards and couldn't get any work done for the next few hours.

Can't wait to hear newbie opinions of Season 5, especially the Final Five episodes.

 

[MatthewLouwrens]

Can't wait to hear newbie opinions of Season 5, especially the Final Five episodes.

I'm looking forward to it - just annoyed I have to wait another couple of months before we get season 4.

 

[Wayne Bundrick]

I received Season 5 on Monday and I ripped through the episodes and finished it tonight.

Good to see these episodes again, even the ones with Byron. Sad for the story's end, and that once again I've reached the end of the story and if I want to enjoy it again I'll have to start from the beginning again.

 

[Rob T]

I finished the first disc tonight.

I'm trying to get my sisters boyfriend into the show too.
I lent him the pilot and in the beginning disc and told him to just watch the pilot for now.

 

[nolesrule]

Well, I got through the last few episodes of season 5 today. What's taking you newbies so long? I'm still waiting to read your thoughts.

 

[Daniel W]

Since you asked, here are the thoughts of a newbie (although I'm confident in saying that these won't be as detailed and informative as those of Kevin Grey):

I've only watched the first three episodes but, so far, it's alot better than I thought it would be. I've heard some pretty harsh criticizms of the first half of season 5, so maybe my expectations were just too low. I particularly enjoyed the second ep., which I believe was called "The Long Night of Londo Molari". I'm not even bothered by Byron, though I should mention that I've always liked the telepath storylines so I might be easier than most to please in that regard. Overall, I'd say the quality has been on par with the average episodes from season 2, which makes it a helluva lot better than the majority of season 1.

I watched the first four seasons in a six week period, but I'm going to take my time with season five, as I know it's the last time I'll get to watch B5 with fresh eyes. I expect I'll stretch this out for at least 3-4 weeks.

 

[Mike Broadman]

Cool, Daniel.

I love the telepath stuff more than most, too, I think. It presents dramatic, ethical, philosophical issues not handled with such maturaty and depth anywhere in TV sci-fi that I'm aware of, which is what the genre is really supposed to do.

I watched the first disc last night I'm reminded about how much I like the story line but really want to punch Byron ins the face every time he opens his mouth.

 

[Randy Korstick]

I've always enjoyed the Byron story line too and never understood why so many hate him so much. Is it the best of the series? Of course not but its a good storyline.
I'm curious do those that hate Byron also hate Marcus? I always found there characters similar in the way that the actors played them.

 

[Holadem]

I've always enjoyed the Byron story line too and never understood why so many hate him so much.

Note that I have watched less than half of S5, and haven't bought the set yet:

1- I don't like the messianic, guru, or martyr wannabe quality of the character. He has the looks and dubious charisma of a religious sect leader, and I am very negatively predisposed toward that type.

2- The actor simply grates on my nerves.

--
H

 

[Rex Bachmann]

Randy Korstic wrote (post #409):

[Raises hand and waves arm frantically to get teacher's attention]

"I DO! I DO! I DO!"

 

[Wayne Bundrick]

What Holadem said. The charismatic quality of the character has the opposite effect on me. And the actor, ugh. And his Fabio hair. That was the final insult.

But I liked Marcus and I don't see any similarities.

 

[Joshua_W]

1- I don't like the messianic, guru, or martyr wannabe quality of the character. He has the looks and dubious charisma of a religious sect leader, and I am very negatively predisposed toward that type.

That's the whole point of the character. He's supposed to be a creepy cult leader-type.

Also, had Ivanova (and Claudia Christian) stayed for the fifth season, she would've been to Byron's superficial resemblence to Marcus out of guilt for the latter's death.

 

[Kevin Grey]

I'm trying to find a decent block of time to get through them since once I start I know it will be difficult to stop until I get to the end. I did get pretty pumped up when I saw a commercial for the set while watching DS9 last week.

I'm pretty sure my feelings will be quite similar to Daniel's. I think my expectations for the first half have been sufficiently lowered that I will likely find them better than I expect. After all I really enjoyed some of the lesser first season eps (Infection, TKO, Grail, etc).

 

[Daniel W]

After all I really enjoyed some of the lesser first season eps (Infection, TKO, Grail, etc).

If that's the case, I agree that you'll probably like these early season five eps just fine. Even with my already lowered expectations based on reputation, I hated the three lesser first season episodes that you just mentioned.

 

[Tony Whalen]

I'm also with Holadem on that one. The actor just grates on my nerves.

 

[Mike Broadman]

I'm curious do those that hate Byron also hate Marcus?

I love Marcus. I think one of the reasons Byron is hated is because he's like a degenerate, annoying version of Marcus, like if Marcus was a total dick he'd by Byron.

I feel sorry for Downes (Byron). He's supposedly a real nice guy at conventions. He doesn't keep his hair so coiffed, nor does he really have a British accent. He's just a dude who was supposed to play a prick and did it a little too well.

 

[PhilipG]

Well, ahem, I've just finished rewatching season 5.

And um... i have to say i liked it, and i think i have been unjustly harsh about it in the past. :b

I went in with rock-bottom expectations. I hadn't seen the episodes since they were first broadcast (I'd recorded them, but never wanted to watch the recordings). But, really, season 5 stands up very well against seasons 2-4 (season one is still my favourite though, by far).

- Byron isn't annoying. However... His haircut is annoying. The same line he speaks every scene he's in is annoying. But he's much better than, say, Theo was. And better than Marcus too IMHO.

- The Psi-Corps-focused ep was a lot better than the two previous documentary-style eps.

- The Londo/G'Kar stuff was great. The final episode was superb.

So what changed my opinion? Well, perhaps I was a little more tolerant. What really bugged me the first time was how JMS would repeatedly remind the audience of key facts in nearly every single scene, even in the last few episodes when cluing in new viewers shouldn't have been a concern. And he would do this by having one character tell another character of his/her beliefs/motivations, when the other character would have been well aware of them by that time. The other main difference was that I liked seasons 2-4 less than I did before, so season 5 was less of a dip.

I liked Lochley this time around too, which helped. But she was still no substitute for Ivanova (one reason why SIL was so markedly better; another being Mira Furlan's brilliant acting performance).

BTW, I have a couple of questions for people in the know (true fans):

1. Why was there never an Earth Ambassador, even in season 5? Seems a bit strange to give ambassadorial duties to a military officer. In s5, Lochley is very much absent from many of the council meetings (inner and outer).

2. Is there a good site detailing the B5 books/comics: which to get, which to avoid, which answer certain plot points etc?

 

[nolesrule]

2. Is there a good site detailing the B5 books/comics: which to get, which to avoid, which answer certain plot points etc?

I can't recall a good site that is thorough in all the books and comics, but the Lurker's Guide does cover most of them.

All 11 issues of the B5 comic series and the 3-issue In Valen's Name mini-series are good. The stories tie in well with the TV series.

As for the books:

Novels #7 and #9 from the initial Del Rey run are the only ones that are really worth reading.

#7 The Shadow Within (Jeanne Cavelos) gives good background on the Icarus expedition to Z'ha'dum.

#9 To Dream in the City of Sorrows (Kathryn Drennan) covers Jeffrey Sinclair between when he leaves Babylon 5 and his TV return in the 3rd season ep War Without End.

The 3 Trilogies are all excellent and engaging if you are interested in the subject matters that they cover...

The Psi Corps Trilogy by J. Gregory Keyes (detailed history and future of the Earth telepaths and Psi Corps)
Dark Genesis: The Birth of the Psi Corps
Deadly Relations: Bester Ascendant
Final Reckoning: The Fate of Bester

The Centauri Trilogy by Peter David (details what happens to Centauri Prime after Season 5)
Legions of Fire: The Long Night of Centauri Prime
Legions of Fire: Armies of Light and Dark
Legions of Fire: Out of Darkness

Technomage Trilogy by Jeanne Cavelos (details Galen the Technomage from Crusade...ties in tightly with Crusade, and a little bit with Babylon 5's technomage epsiode The Geometry of Shadows)
The Passing of the Techno-Mages: Casting Shadows
The Passing of the Techno-Mages: Summoning Light
The Passing of the Techno-Mages: Invoking Darkness

 

[Joshua_W]

PhilipG,

Joe Kauffman is correct in his assessment of the novels. The only ones you really need to concern yourself with are "Shadow Within," "To Dream in the City of Sorrows," and the three trilogies. You also might want to check out the novelization of "In the Beginning," too, as it expands upon the story and was written by Peter David, who has written teleplays for the series and is also a friend of JMS (at least through Harlan Ellison).

It should also be stated that the above eleven novels are CANONICAL. Unlike the Star Trek and Star Wars novels, these eleven original novels can be viewed as "lost episodes." A few small details might contradict things in the series, but the overall gist of them is something that really happened within the context of the series. So any upcoming Babylon 5 projects shouldn't contradict anything major in the novels.

Now, onto the comics. There were two series published by DC Comics.

The first was an "ongoing" series that was cancelled after only eleven issues.

Issues 1-4 were one complete story that took place between seasons 1 and 2, based on a plot by JMS. Deals with Sinclair.

Issues 5-8 were also one complete story. This one dealt with Garibaldi and Sinclair's past, and ties into the series where Garibaldi had the Psi-Corps badge he found on Mars in season three. (The comics book, IIRC, actually set up that plotline before it was introduced in the series.)

Issues 9-10 were based on a story by David Gerrold (writer of the classic Trek episode "Trouble with Tribbles") that was pitched as an episode. It centers on Garibaldi and G'Kar.

Issue 11, the final issue, was sort of a "Psi-Corps and You" type of thing. The entire issue was made to look like some kind of puff PR piece put out by the Psi-Corps, and it's rather funny.

There was later a three issue mini-series called "In Valen's Name." Also based on a story by JMS, this one dealt with Valen and Babylon 4. No spoilers for the comics, but the series It involved the command crew of Babylon 5 coming across the wreckage of Babylon 4, and it contained records of Valen's life. And this series also ties up a plot point from "To Dream in the City of Sorrows" but is ruined by a misprint or error on the writer's part.

All of the comic books should be considered canonical along with "Shadow Within" "To Dream in the City of Sorrows," and the three trilogies.

They are kind of difficult to find. DC did print two paperback collections of the eleven issue series, but those are long out of print.