B&K Reference 50 processor whine... (1 Viewer)

[AVspec]

OK, here is the info on the "WHINE" sound.

I used an IVIE IE-30A audio analyzer with an IE2P microphone. Now the peak noise seems to be around the 1.6k-2k (+-) range but does cover a full range of around 400Hz to 12.5KHz (+-).

The DB level seems to be about 11 higher then normal room level. My room level is about +-28db (yes the IVIE is that sensitive that it can even pickup sounds from outside of my house) and with the B&K Ref50 turn all the way up (+15.0 on the display) the noise level in the room went up to +-39db with the mic head 5 feet from the speaker.

Now just so people have a good understanding about the level of the “whine” and don’t go running all wild on the internet screaming: “THERE IS WHINE” , when the Ref50 is calibrated to the reference level of 75db, meaning I have the volume control on the Ref50 set to 0.0 and I calibrate to 75db, which with my setup I can either turn the gain on the amp down or turn the gain on the Ref50 down or both which is my case as turning the gain on the Ref50 all the way down to -12.0 does not get me down to the 75db Ref level, then the “Whine” noise does not register at all on the IE-30 analyzer and in fact I can not hear it even if I put my ear up to the speaker (this is a very important note here).

So as you can see from my testing, the only time, on my Ref50, that the “WHINE” is even detectable is when you have the Ref50 well above the 75db reference level.

So with this information in hand I called and talked to B&K tech support and had a nice long discussion about the “whine” issue (and of course my defective right front channel) and was informed that an adjustment can be made to the Ref50 to make the “whine” go away? Or maybe just less noticeable, and it was by adjust one of the gains on one of the internal circuits.

So after speaking with B&K, I believe the “gain” settings play a big factor along with speaker sensitive in this “whine” issue and I am starting to wonder if it is even an issue at all????

Why do some people hear it and others don’t? Well, I think it has to do with the amps and speakers that everyone is using. And I think to test this theory out we would need to swap B&K Ref50’s out between two systems, one that does not show any signs of this “whine” sound and one that does and see if it indeed then shows up on the Ref50 that did not have the “whine” before in the original system, and if it goes away on the Ref50 that had the “whine” in its original system.

So who wants to send me their B&K Ref50 that does not have the “whine” sound so I can test this theory out???

Seriously, if there is someone in my area that would like to try this let me know, or if anyone else out there can test this theory then that would be great.

Also I think we need to post which speakers we are all using along with the amps, and also the gain setting on both the amp(s) and the Ref50. Oh and lets not forget to mention if balanced or unbalanced connections are used.

My speakers:
JBL S36B Studio Series, 90dB Sensitivity (2.83v/1m), 8 Ohms.
JBL S-Center, 91dB Sensitivity (2.83v/1m), 8 Ohms.
Amps:
QSC EX800, Sensitivity: 1 Vrms @175watts (8 ohms), 20 Hz-20 Khz, 0.1% THD
QSC EX1200, Sensitivity: 1 Vrms @275watts (8 ohms), 20 Hz-20 Khz, 0.1% THD

Balanced interconnects.

Gain setting on Ref50: -11.5dB
Gain setting on QSC EX 1200 amp: -6dB
Gain setting on QSC EX 800 amp: -2dB

I hope this testing and information helps shed some light on this “WHINE”.

 

[Frances_H]

Mark,
thanks for sharing your detailed testing on the whine. It's definitely encouraging that one can actually "tame" the whine, and in my case, since I don't expect to listen in to the system at beyond reference level, I am satisfied to go on based on your review. What did B&K had to say about the defective channel? do you have to send your system back to buffalo? thanks, fh

 

[AVspec]

The defective channel seems to be a rare case and it does not appear that any other units have had this type of problem. (figures I would be the first )

B&K Support is top notch and they will be taking care of my problem unit. I have worked with B&K on other hardware issues with some of their older gear and they are great for researching it out until a solution is found. They are a top notch company and have very good support (George there is a heck of a good guy).

I of course will be post a follow up once I have everything straightened out with my Ref50.

 

[Rob Tomlin]

A 50/50 split on the "whine" is not good!

I had pretty much decided this was the pre/pro I was going to purchase...not anymore.

And, not only have other problems been reported beside the whine (including in this thread) but on the AVS Forum (linked above) as well.

Although I could get the Ref 50 for about $800.00 less than the Anthem, I may have to spend the extra cash.

:frowning:

 

[Rob Tomlin]

Oh, and I will also be using a Sherbourn Amp!

 

[Frances_H]

Rob,
Anthem shares its own problem too, there are discussions on Anthem issues over on AVS. So, it boils down to rolling your dice (to some degree) and hoping that you don't get a defective unit. As Mark pointed out, the whine is not that bad, but the other problem is troublesome. As long as B&K support is top notch and stand behind its products, and one get it from an authorized dealer, one has a fallback. Everybody seems to agree, it's one of the best processor out there, for the money. I have decided to place an order, thank you all for your comments, feedback, and suggestions. As a backup plan, I am keeping my Rotel 1065 receiver, in case I have to shipped back the unit

 

[Mifr44]

Frances,

Anthem shares its own problem too, there are discussions on Anthem issues over on AVS.

Do you have links to the posts that describe these problems with the AVM-20 over at AVS? I wasn't able to find any current problem with the AVM-20's software (v2.09) or the hardware. I must have missed it and would like to help out those individuals.

Thanks,

Michael

 

[AVspec]

Do people actually read whole posts or, like the little women that live with me, do they have selective hearing/reading?

Those that think there is a problem with the Ref50, please read my "entire" post above.

Also, please note what I said in an early post:

"As far as the sound quality goes: My initial impressions are favorable. The detail I heard (while the right front was still working) was incredible, two channel stereo blew me away compared to the two channel stereo of the Rotel RSP-1066 to the point that (and this is no exaggeration) it was like I installed new speakers as my JBL Studio monitors (S36B’s) never sounded that good. I heard more detail in the high end range that I never heard before nor did I know the speakers were capable of."

Mind you this was only a two channel stereo test with boring old PCM CD's. I have not even tested DTS 24 bit audio CD's or DTS-ES discrete DVD's or any of the many great Dolby Digital and DD-ES DVD's to see what this piece can do.. Also the features and flexibility of this piece is truly unbelievable and the remote is very cool and easy to use and also extremely flexible.

And one more thing, this silver B&K Ref50 in one of the nicest looking piece I have seen in quite some time! Heck it sounds good not even powered up it looks so nice!




Want a close up shot? (for those with high-speed connections only!)
Large image

 

[AVspec]

Oh, one last note, it looks like I will be able to do a direct A/B of the Ref50 and the Rotel RSP-1066 as the person I sold the Rotel unit too (who loves it by the way) said he would not mind bringing it back down to my Theater once my replacement Ref50 arrives.

So I will have a full A/B comparison and a full Ref50 review on my website in the not so distant future.

 

[Rob Tomlin]

Those that think there is a problem with the Ref50, please read my "entire" post above.

You are assuming too much.

Not only have I read your entire post, I have read the other posts here and on the AVS Forum as well.

I don't understand how you, or anyone, could say there is "no problem" with the Ref 50 in light of these posts. A whine is a problem. Period. If I pay nearly $3000.00 for a piece of audio equipment, I don't expect it to "whine", even when nothing is playing through it. Is that too much to ask?

I don't think so....

 

[AVspec]

Many processors go into 'mute' mode when nothing is being inputed to the processor. This is done to cover-up the existance of the noise floor. The theory being that when you are playing music/movies, you won't actually be able to discern any processor noise ... but you possibly could when nothing is playing. So, they just hide it when nothing is being played.

I never "assume" as you know what they say about that....

But hey Rob, you have obviously done extensive testing in you listening environment with the B&K Reference 50, and have decided you did not like the unit and are getting a Anthem Pre/pro, so good luck with your new Anthem!

Now back to your regularly scheduled B&K Ref50 thread...

 

[Rob Tomlin]

Now back to your regularly scheduled B&K Ref50 thread...

Did we ever leave it? Just because I mention a competitor to the B&K means I strayed from the subject at hand (which was the B&K Ref 50 and potential problems with a whine)?



You yourself had to get a "replacement" Ref 50 due to a defective channel. I don't understand you taking such a strong stand in support of the Ref 50 and say it doesn't have problems.

 

[Frances_H]

Michael,
Most of the later discussions on Anthem AVM-20 is around volume knob "indent" which I don't really think as an issue per se. You're right, as of current issue, I read most of your responses on version 2.09 stability, and noticed also that you are the Anthem "help" guy in several thread!

Mark,
I would definitely interested to hear your B&K ref50 vs. Rotel 1066 shootout result, do share! I really don't have any beef against Rotel, in fact, I've decided to keep my Rotel (very happy with its ability to drive 4 ohms load with ease), it's this damned Upgraditis Acuteitis that I am suffering from...

 

[AVspec]

Yes, the Rotel is a very nice piece and a great bargain!

Looks like my replacement unit should ship out this week and speaking with B&K tech support, it looks like all new shipped Ref50’s do have a “fix” for “balance connections only” to eliminate the “whine” problem.

Of course I will verify this claim as soon as my replacement arrives.

I would suggest that anyone that is experiencing the “whine”, especially if you are using “balanced” interconnects, call B&K tech support and tell them you would like a replacement unit. Now George did say it only addresses the balanced outputs, but I will of course also test the unbalanced outputs once mine arrives.

So hopefully next week at this time I will have an answer for everyone that is experiencing the “whine”.

Stay tuned…..

 

[Ron.Pellegrino]

For whatever it's worth....

I took delivery last week of a special order silver Ref50/125.7 combo...no whine, no speaker noise, software version 1.00, using balanced XLR's, and one fine sounding pair of separates.

 

[Frances_H]

Ron,
that's the exact same combo that I have placed on order. How do you like it? what kind of speakers are you using? thanks, fh

 

[Chu Gai]

I think it's very interesting what you've found Mark. Any chance you've got the capabilities to do a S/N on your unit?

 

[Ron.Pellegrino]

FH,

I've got Klipsch speakers...RF-3 II fronts, RC-3 II center, RS3 II surrounds and a pair of SS-3's I am using for backs along with a KSW12 sub.

Also got a Denon 1600 DVD player for DVD and DVD-A. I've now test cycled through several DTS and DD 5.1 DVD,s as well as regular music CD's and a couple DVD-A's I bought, and still no noise, whine, etc. The DVD-A's are really outstanding....5.1 with -zero- background noise, etc. Am not using any kind of line conditioner, just a sizable surge strip.

 

[Bryce Miner]

I received my REF 50 yesterday Ver 1.03 and No whine at all. Great sounding unit. I took quite a bit of time adjusting the notch filter and Variable EQ settings with my RTA.

I noticed not only detail but a seemless front soundstage.

 

[Rob Tomlin]

It's encouraging to see Ron and Bryce post that they haven't had the problem with the "whine". We need to hear from as many owners of these units as possible in order to be more accurate as to the percentage of units that have this problem with the whine.

Thanks for the posts!