Anyone feel a bit letdown by Shout! Select? (1 Viewer)

[smithb]

Originally Posted by pickfair
Brad, I had no idea you collect so many TV shows. I don't. If I did, I think I would feel exactly the same way as you:so many shows, so little time. But I have to ask you this: What are your top 20 shows of all time and have every single seasons of said shows been released? I think this is what frustrates a lot of people. Maybe all your favorites are accounted for. For me, I really hope Dennis the Menace gets completed, it probably won't.

Your post does bring up a point that isn't usually clear when trying to understand the post of another, and that is their collecting/buying habits and at what stage they are in with the hobby. If I was looking to complete just 10 favorites of all time and only 5 had been completed, 3 stalled, and 2 not likely to be released at all, maybe my opinion would be a bit different. So maybe having so many series available to me, might have eased my frustration a bit for those that I don't have. In any case, there are several variables that come into play when forming an opinion.


But to your question, I came up with these counts:

- about 25 shows in my list that I would really like to have completed that still have a shot at being unstalled some day

- about 35 dead in the water with almost no probability of being revived

- about 35 that I bought the seasons for that I wanted and have no interest in buying more

- about 20 in the might buy more releases some day if they continue

- about 135 completed (many with low season counts but some lengthy ones)


IMO, most shows are episode based, epecially the older one's, so while it would be nice to have them all it doesn't take away from my pleasure of watching and owning them if not all seasons are released. Some shows even "jump the shark" at some point and I prefer ending it when at its best. For example, I'd really like to have more Night Court, but I was fine with stopping Taxi at 3 and Cheers at 5 even though more were released. My kids and I like watching Dennis the Menace but I only want the one's with Kearns as Wilson and before Dennis gets too big. One thing you have to remember when you collect a high number of shows it can become cost prohibitive to have complete seasons of then all anyway.


In the end, if they stopped releasing anything new tomorrow, I'd still be a happy camper with what I have. It's really all gravy for me at this point even with several favorites out there incomplete.

 

[TVonDVDJunkie05]

Just a thought here, I am not sure if this is even possible- Why doesn't Shout! Factory sub-license some of these stalled series to Mill Creek Entertainment?! These two companies seem to have some sort of relationship as Mill Creek has released best-of sets for many of the shows that Shout! has put out. If they can put out best-of sets then what about complete season sets?!


I have been wondering about this ever since I heard about Mill Creek releasing C.O.P.S. This series was originally released by Shout! Factory (two volumes) but due to poor sales they stopped. Now Mill Creek has begun releasing the series and will thankfully release it in its entirety. However what I am confused about is whether Mill Creek acquired the rights from Cookie Jar Entertainment (who own the show) or Shout! Factory because Shout! still has their releases listed on their website?! This indicates to me that they may still hold the rights and these releases are still in print, otherwise why keep this info on your site if the releases are discontinued?!

And why don't they ship the Select titles to Canada

I was not aware that Shout! select products are not available to us here in Canada- does that mean they don't have the distribution rights for Canada?!

Alliance seems to be the best at this with all the sci-fi shows released fully and in a timely manner ( how many people even know Mutant X? Not many people but you can get the whole series).

Well in fairness to Shout!, Alliance has the rights to all the series they are releasing whereas Shout! Factory is sub-licensing them from other companies as they don't own any shows themselves.


I wish Alliance would update their friggin' website as right now there is no mention of any of these series they have released. I have resorted to creating my own list on the Alliance Films article on Wikipedia. I am hoping they decide to put out Night Heat one of these days but it doesn't look like that will ever happen. Regarding the packaging, they have now started using the amaray cases which Paramount made popular and now appear to be used by pretty much all the major studios.

 

[Jack P]

When Shout subleases material to Mill Creek it's strictly a case of "take this surplus off our hands please" and giving them episodes of seasons they have already licensed. They don't have arrangements as far as I know to let another label take charge of an unreleased season which would have to be worked out with the original rights holder.

 

[TVonDVDJunkie05]

They don't have arrangements as far as I know to let another label take charge of an unreleased season which would have to be worked out with the original rights holder.

That is what I figured, they would have to arrange with Universal or FOX to allow them to sub-license stuff out to Mill Creek which would never happen since these guys would want to negotiate their own deal with Mill Creek. I don't see that happening since Mill Creek probably can't afford the asking price of the big studios. Oh well, I guess that idea just fell flat on its face.

 

[ToddR2]

Nick, your intial post on this subject was unfairly categorized as being selfish. That's not how I read you post at all. I am surprised that Fox is apparently choosing to be difficult with both VCI and Shout! regarding licensing complete runs of series at a reasonble cost. With regard to Rhoda, I doubt that those fans who bought more than one season of the show would stop buying it after two or three years. It lost a lot of creative impetus after the first handful of episodes, and surely those fans who would buy the series from the second season on would know this. I seriously doubt that Shout! were counting on a bunch of neophytes buying a complete run of a show that they were introduced to 35 years after it aired. I'm sure that the cut episodes on the S1 release had a negative effect on sales, but, how then did S2-4 get released? So, I must assume that Fox is cast in the role of villan here.

 

[pickfair]

Originally Posted by TVonDVDJunkie05 Regarding the packaging, they have now started using the amaray cases which Paramount made popular and now appear to be used by pretty much all the major studios.

I tried ordering Simon and Simon S5 when it came out, that's when I realized they don't ship here. Have not been on their site since so maybe they've changed. Same thing happened when I tried to order s4 of Night Court from Warner Bros.


Good point about the rights issues regarding Shout.


For Alliance releases, I just do a search on Amazon and they pop up. I also hope they release Night Heat. I don't know who owns Diamonds and Hot Shots, but I hope to see those as well one day.


Brad, with all the sets you have, I see your point. But your post made me realize something that upsets me greatly; some TV shows get better with age, like Night Court. The best seasons of this show remain unreleased. Same as with Family Ties and Perfect Strangers. Of course this is only my opinion, for example I've only watched the Diane episodes (Cheers) during the original broadcast and once when I bought the DVD's. I don't care if I never watch them again. The Rebecca episodes have been played to death. But this is the problem: If we only buy the seasons we like, like you and many others do, it might explain the low sales of some shows that stalled.

 

[pickfair]

I tried ordering Simon and Simon S5 when it came out, that's when I realized they don't ship here. Have not been on their site since so maybe they've changed. Same thing happened when I tried to order s4 of Night Court from Warner Bros.


Good point about the rights issues regarding Shout.


For Alliance releases, I just do a search on Amazon and they pop up. I also hope they release Night Heat. I don't know who owns Diamonds and Hot Shots, but I hope to see those as well one day.


Brad, with all the sets you have, I see your point. But your post made me realize something that upsets me greatly; some TV shows get better with age, like Night Court. The best seasons of this show remain unreleased. Same as with Family Ties and Perfect Strangers. Of course this is only my opinion, for example I've only watched the Diane episodes (Cheers) during the original broadcast and once when I bought the DVD's. I don't care if I never watch them again. The Rebecca episodes have been played to death. But this is the problem: If we only buy the seasons we like, like you and many others do, it might explain the low sales of some shows that stalled.

 

[smithb]

Originally Posted by pickfair
Brad, with all the sets you have, I see your point. But your post made me realize something that upsets me greatly; some TV shows get better with age, like Night Court. The best seasons of this show remain unreleased. Same as with Family Ties and Perfect Strangers. Of course this is only my opinion, for example I've only watched the Diane episodes (Cheers) during the original broadcast and once when I bought the DVD's. I don't care if I never watch them again. The Rebecca episodes have been played to death. But this is the problem: If we only buy the seasons we like, like you and many others do, it might explain the low sales of some shows that stalled.

Definitely true about Night Court, that is one I would have liked to have gotten at least a few more seasons out.


But you have to remember if I stuck to only buying my absolute favorites like some and not all the blind buys and nice to haves, that's a whole lot of seasons not sold at all. For me it's not just about buying seasosn I like because I've done a lot of blind buys to discover new shows. So is it better to support a few series by buying all seasons released but having others stall, or spread it around and help as many series as possible? Unless one has unlimited funds they can't always do both. However you slice it, I've picked up 600+ sets over the last few years with quite a few multi-season sets. So I don't think I've hurt sales any using my approach.

 

[The Obsolete Man]

Originally Posted by Jack P

When Shout subleases material to Mill Creek it's strictly a case of "take this surplus off our hands please" and giving them episodes of seasons they have already licensed. They don't have arrangements as far as I know to let another label take charge of an unreleased season which would have to be worked out with the original rights holder.

We'll see when and if Mill Creek announces C.O.P.S. volume 2.


If Mill Creek's vol. 2 completes the series, they will be releasing 22 episodes Shout never released.

 

[vnisanian2001]

What are your thoughts on this suggestion for Shout Select titles:


Lower the price a bit on those sets and actually update their upcoming listings or issues posts as to when to expect the next season to come out as well to energize the fans to buy the previous sets too.

 

[MatthewA]

Originally Posted by vnisanian2001

What are your thoughts on this suggestion for Shout Select titles:


Lower the price a bit on those sets and actually update their upcoming listings or issues posts as to when to expect the next season to come out as well to energize the fans to buy the previous sets too.

I can get behind that. I am usually able to find Shout! sets for around $20 bucks each on Amazon, which is what all DVD season sets should cost IMO.

 

[vnisanian2001]

Yeah, I think that's the reason why some Shout! Select titles have sold worse than others.


Oh, and MatthewA, sorry for bringing up Mr. Belvedere's future on DVD too soon. I shouldn't have done that. I still keep hoping and begging fans to buy the sets right now so that Shout will acquire the final two seasons. But it seems that their reasons for not buying them are that they'd either rather get the show for free through TV airings or torrents, they're not too fond of the general availability and/or price of the DVDs, or they're waiting for a complete series set to be available, which would be cheaper than season sets.

 

[TVonDVDJunkie05]

I am usually able to find Shout! sets for around $20 bucks each on Amazon, which is what all DVD season sets should cost IMO.

I agree wholeheartedly, TV on DVD box sets should be priced in the $20-30 range IMO, anything more than that and I would categorize it as being overpriced and a rip off. I just purchased a season of The Golden Girls for 10 bucks, I am quite certain that even at that low price point they are still able to make some profit off of it. If they can make money by selling something for 10 or 20 bucks then why do they some set sell for $40. or $50. per season- GREED that is why.

 

[The Obsolete Man]

Originally Posted by TVonDVDJunkie05

Well, first, you do realize that the Golden Girls set you bought for such a cheap price has been out on the market for 4 or 5 years now, right? That means that the studio has already made their money on it, and can let the remainder go cheap because it probably costs them less to let their remaining stock out for a low price than to pay to store all these sets When the sets first came out, they were $39.99 MSRP, which would have probably made them around 30 bucks after discounts on release day.


And that's the price the real fans paid back then. You get to pay 10 bucks now because they bought it for triple that amount 6 years ago.


Second, as to why prices are sometimes above the 20-30 range? Well, some shows aren't going to sell like gangbusters, and get a higher price so the studios will make back their investment. Some shows, like those on Shout Select, cost more to manufacture because a smaller amount of sets are produced, and fewer will sell than a regular mass released set.


It isn't "Greed"... it's business. The companies aren't running a charity and putting these shows out so fans can have a copy forever and ever... they're doing it to make money. And considering that a little over a decade ago, there was no such thing as a full season set of a TV show, and the few rare TV shows on VHS were expensive as all hell, with two seasons of something like The Monkees running at 400-500 dollars, now 40 bucks is outrageous?

 

[Jeff Willis]

^ Agree with Shane's post.


Its just imo, but the 'greed' theory may be overstated in this thread. I don't think it's a situation where big bad studios sit around a table and plan stress scenarios for its buyers. It's usually a case of supply and demand and the willingness of customers to pay their pricepoints.


For me, I like to set a loose standard of $30 for a typical TV/DVD set. As with most everyone, we'd prefer to pay the lowest possible price for everything. It all depends on the importance of the product to the consumer. I usually look for the $25 price range before I buy most of my TV/DVD sets but I'm not buying near the anount of sets that I was buying 2-3 years ago due to the overall releases slowing down for the era of shows that are of interest to me as a collector.


If one's pricepoint line is $20 for most sets, I imagine they would have to wait for studio sales or one of the Amazon Deal of the Day postings to realize that pricepoint on a consistant basis.


Having said that about the 'greed' angle, one thing that I have wondered about, is the CBS/P split-season releaes. As probably most here, I've never thought much of that CBS marketing strategy. I don't know the reason and I'd guess that most would assume that it's the greedy studio milking us for more $$'s. But I don't know the internal workings of that studio and unless someone here works for the TV/DVD division at CBS, they don't know either.


All we can do here is speculate about the TV/DVD mkt.


The real issue for me with this hobby is the lack of available information to the general public consumer. The type of info that I'd have liked to see would be the studio's list of TV shows and their status'es. ie, "stalled", "not financially approved", "on the runway", "being remastered", or, "remastered and being aired on, say, one of the national TV outlets and a DVD release forthcoming".


Of course, if studios launched a site that provided general status info, they'd have to deal with some feedback issues and possible legal issues if contracts were pending for future DVD releases.


As for Shout's Select program, I hope they continue generating enough sales #'s to keep the program going since as some here have previously mentioned, it's probably the only way we'd see these sets released as pressed discs.

 

[The Obsolete Man]

CBS/P seems to have a set MSRP for a specific amount of content.


For example, the Lucy Show S4 has a MSRP of 43 bucks for 11 hours of content. Perry Mason s5.1 was 50 bucks for 13 hours of content. Taxi s5 was 30 bucks for 9 and a half hours of content. (this is all before Amazon or other online discount, of course)


In the case of old hourlong dramas like Perry Mason, it seems like they don't want to go over that threshold that will make the set more than a $50 MSRP. I guess they figure that any more expensive than that, and no one will buy it. They seem to want the casual buyer in a store to see sets like this and say "Hey, I remember that show! That doesn't seem like too bad a price! I'll buy it!" as opposed to pleasing the built in fanbase they already know will buy the sets.


Yeah, split seasons do suck. But, they have been pretty consistent about prices and how much content gets released on a split season (or full season) set.


And I also agree that a list or a heads up about the status of shows would be nice. That's the biggest headache with TV on DVD... the uncertainty. You buy the first season of a show, and never know if you'll see season 2.

 

[Joe Tor1]

Originally Posted by The Obsolete Man

And that's the price the real fans paid back then. You get to pay 10 bucks now because they bought it for triple that amount 6 years ago.

Agreed! And, I might add it is the folks like me, who buy what they want on the day of release (or close to it), who determine in the studios' eyes IF there are any future sets -- not those who swoop in years later and pick at the remains!

 

[Joe Tor1]

Originally Posted by Jeff Willis

The real issue for me with this hobby is the lack of available information to the general public consumer. The type of info that I'd have liked to see would be the studio's list of TV shows and their status'es. ie, "stalled", "not financially approved", "on the runway", "being remastered", or, "remastered and being aired on, say, one of the national TV outlets and a DVD release forthcoming".

That's never going to happen in ANY business. Take comic books -- a business somewhat like DVDs, with the same sort of following. The publishers let loose no information they don't have to! I work freelance for a publisher -- and the titles I work on have gone on hiatus. Even *I* don't' know the future of those titles -- much less the general public... some of whom are asking *ME* what *I* know!

That's just the way it works -- unfortunately!

 

[Professor Echo]

I'm in agreement with Brad, Shane and Jeff on this. Attributing everything that's wrong in the world to evil corporate greed is overly-simplistic and naive. I have no doubt it is a major factor and affects us in nearly everything we do or don't do in our lives, but that does not necessarily make it the be all culprit for all of our woes as 21st century human beings. I am not defending it by any means and you won't find a more anti-establishment, in some instances socialist, stance than mine own, but even I acknowledge that not every business is out to usurp my existence in the name of greed. There are actually businesses who make sound judgments that have nothing to do with greed and yield products and services that make us live happier lives. We are a part of a capitalist society, for better or worse, and it's unrealistic to expect for profit companies and corporations to lose money and potentially lose their purpose and existence. Very few things in life are black and white, but that's one of them. You can't live or prosper in a capitalist society and expect otherwise.


But what you can do, especially now in the age of the internet where one human voice once more has value, is make yourself heard. I don't mean in just message boards that preach to the choir and may or may not just reaffirm your stance, but by being proactive and making direct contact not only with the company, but with others who are their customers. Spread the word where it will affect the company most, not just ranting and raving amongst a few here and there, but in polite, professional ways and means that will make the company take notice. If you decide not to support something a company is doing, don't just decide not to buy it and hope enough people will follow suit. Tell the company exactly why you are not purchasing their product and why you are discouraging others from doing so. If you have made salient points on a message board and have attracted a sizable following with like minded folks, direct the company to the thread as an adjunct to your personal correspondence with a company, not as a "Oh yeah, well go look at this message board and you will see I'm right!!!!!" attitude.


Walking the streets and shouting the world is going to end because of corporate greed solves nothing. You have to take a stand and make the effort to help enact change, all the while being prepared for both victory and defeat. This post is not directed at any one specific person in this thread, just at the generalized idea that greed is at the source of everything that's wrong with our society at large and the tiny fraction of this hobby, which is the subject at hand. It's always with us, no doubt, but that doesn't mean it's ALWAYS at the root of our troubles or that we can't do anything about it.

 

[Kasey]

I've heard the studios who issue their series as split-seasons do so because powerful big-box retailers like Walmart complained about lack of shelf space. Complete seasons of shows like Charlie's Angels and Starsky and Hutch take up three times the space that the current plastic cases used for most releases. The alternative was of course using dual-sided discs like WB did for Dallas. So CBS had to issue hour-long shows like Dynasty and Vega$ as split-seasons, as well as vintage sitcoms with high episode counts per season like My Three Sons. It still doesn't explain why S1 and S2 of Petticoat Junction were released complete.