And the under-achieving center channel of the year award goes to........... (1 Viewer)

[Kevin Alexander]

You are right Dwayne. I don't doubt that some changes might occur, but I don't think it's as readily and easily perceivable as some manufacturers would have us believe.

 

[brentl]

I think they ask you to break in the centre channel for a reason. Why would we outthink the pros?

The As-f2s sound SSSOOOOooo much better after a couple of months. Now after 6 months I have to say the F2s are still better.

The C1 is OK, it's no CC350 and I wouldn't compare it to that, but if they ever come out with a larger centre() I'm all over it.

Brent

 

[brentl]

I think they ask you to break in the centre channel for a reason. Why would we outthink the pros?

The As-f2s sound SSSOOOOooo much better after a couple of months. Now after 6 months I have to say the F2s are still better.

The C1 is OK, it's no CC350 and I wouldn't compare it to that, but if they ever come out with a larger centre() I'm all over it.

Brent

 

[Tim O...]

Kevin, I don't want to turn this into one of those highly antagonistic threads. But I stand by the majority of what I've already written, and I will honestly address your points here:

"I won't doubt that some changes in sound may occur, but you make it sound like I should wait for the AS-C1 to undergo some miraculous metamorphasis. ... Over the last 10 years, I have had brand new and fairly expensive Polks, Infinities, Paradigm, and now Athena - all of them, years later, had the exact same sound they did when I bought them new."

Dwayne already dealt with this and you agreed with him. On the whole break-in issue, my point is that you didn't give the product a chance--didn't follow the recommended setup routine, and yet blasted it in public. Do you see how ironic it is that all of your posts up to now, including the thread title, lead people to believe this speaker is a piece of crap, and now you've decided you're going to keep it? I personally don't care how you feel about it, but I believe in honest and balanced opinions and representation. I'll deal with the continued hyperbole below about me "being on Athena's payroll," but yes, of course I'm more interested in balancing out such exaggerated criticism of something I own and like. It's human nature. But I'd argue that I do it in a fair way. I don't think Athena's the best thing since sliced bread, but it's not "the underachieving centre channel of the year" either--otherwise you wouldn't have kept it, would you?


"BTW, I forgot to post here that I indeed decided to stay w/ the Athena AS-C1 and have had it in my system now for slightly over a month. It, as well as the AS-F2's, are well broken in now. And guess what, Tim O, while I feel that I can live w/ the sound of it, I'm still somewhat underwhelmed w/ its overall presence and soundstage."

Good for you, I'm happy you made a decision on a centre. But again, do you see the huge disconnect between "underachieving center channel of the year," "Maybe the AS-C1 is in small mode...BECAUSE IT'S A FRIGGIN SMALL CENTER CHANNEL!!!!"? and "I'm still somewhat underwhelmed w/ its overall presence and soundstage"?


"IMO, this is hogwash, hogwash, hogwash for the reasons mentioned above. With all the speaker combos I've had, break-in has meant little to nothing in my experience."

I disagree and you've admitted that you can not absolutely conclude this from your own experience. But even if true, the fact remains that you didn't follow the manufacturer's recommendation but then went on to offer and incite a lot of vitriole about the product.


"What's so strange about that? Many other on this forum and others have had the same concerns."

So you're saying that many people on these forums have said they liked the pleasingly detailed nature of a speaker and then called it the underachiever of the year? I find that hard to believe. Again I think the issue here is not your opinion, but the over-the-top way you stated it.


"I've never did that w/ any other speaker that I liked. Why start w/ the Athenas - a budget speaker?"

You're free to do what you want. But if you don't follow the manufacturer's instructions and then lambaste it in public, you'd better be prepared to be challenged on it and to own your remarks.



"The majority of people here never bought, owned, much less properly setup BOSE speakers, but almost everyone here is negative about them, criticizes them, and makes snide remarks about them. Do you think that's unfair as well? Where is your over-righteous defense of BOSE?"

Yes I do think it's unfair for people to do that, if they've never heard, nor know nothing about, BOSE products. I've heard them, and I know enough about them to know that a) they are not well designed, b) they're way overpriced, and c) BOSE employs enormous amounts of false marketing. These are what I base my opinion on. But even if BOSE made a good product, I probably wouldn't spend my time defending them, because I don't own them. I do own Athena and like them, and therefore I am interested in seeing fair and balanced treatment of them in public. As far as being over-righteous, I think you're betraying your hyperbolic nature again. All I've done is offer informed criticism and insist on balanced dialogue.


"Seriously though, can you really call it "negative" when I love and purchase a closely related Athena product - the AS-F2's? I really wanted to love the AS-C1 as well, but I just felt it had shortcomings as a complement of the awesome AS-F2's."

If you'd titled or begun this thread with a statement like that, I'd probably never have called you to task.


"I have had a RS SPL meter for 5 years now and would never have uncalibrated speakers."

That tells us more and lends credibility to your opinion.


"In all honesty, perhaps you're right. After all, I only paid $138 + tax for it on sale at Best Buy. But by the same token, I didn't pay alot at all for the AS-F2's, but I find their sound quality 3-5 times better than what I paid for them."

I think this is a key point. And it could be that the F2's are that much better, and that much better than the F1's. Personally I find the F1's and C1 are a good match, although I am going to take a closer listen as a result of this thread.

quote:


"The AS-C1 is small. It was one-third smaller than my Paradigm CC-350 which was not a very large CC at all."

Fair enough. Maybe it's small for c.c. *in any price range*. But is it small for a $138 c. c., and is it the underperformer of the year in that price range. I seriously doubt it.


"Sony SAW-M40 w/ the crossover turned up all the way and the receiver's internal crossover set at 80Hz for all speakers."

That's what I thought. I think this is likely your problem with any centre channel that you've tried, and perhaps especially with the $138 Athena. You're using a $200, 120 watt sub, and expecting it to handle not only LFE, but also summed bass from all other channels, and to keep up with four 8" drivers in your very sensitive mains. That's just completely unrealistic. If you had a true sub, properly configured, I bet you'd find your centre and surrounds' performance much better.


"Actually, it sounds like you're on the Athena payroll."

This is more of the exaggeration that prompted my response in the first place.


"Would you have such an over-righteous tone had you bought a speaker setup other than Athena? If you're simply defending the dignity of Athena, why not defend BOSE since they suffer most here from defamation of character?"

I dealt with this above.


"I now own a speaker that I once "slammed", how ironic."

As I noted above, it is quite ironic and delineates how unnecessary and over-the-top your thread title is.


"That's a very dumbed-down false assessment of my initial experience w/ the AS-C1. Like I mentioned earlier, it doesn't take me 100 hrs to decide I have a problem w/ something."

Is it really dumbed down? That's all we knew about your audition of the C1 until this post.


"(See above.) Why are you so insistent on knowing my setup? It has zero relevance of my opinion of the AS-C1."

On the complete contrary, Kevin, it has all the relevance in the world. Just as one example: as I stated above, you're using what appears to be a massively underqualified sub to complement your mains and handle information from the rest of your channels. That is almost certainly a factor in your opinion of ANY c. c. in your setup, not just the Athena. Then there's the mulitude of configuration options and tweaks that could affect performance, about which we know little.


"Man, you really need a girlfriend. And don't forget to sign your Athena payroll check on the back, otherwise, the bank teller won't cash it."

This is more of the facetiousness and hyperbole that led me to find your opinions non-credible.


"Finally, it's spelled CENTER, not CENTRE"

The other gentleman from Canada addressed this.


In sum, you're free to buy what you want and feel how you want about it Kevin. But when you enter public space and offer your opinions, be prepared to have them examined and criticized. You seem knowledgeable enough, but in my estimation you worded your opinion poorly and contradicted yourself badly by calling this the underachiever of the year, not setting it up properly, and then deciding to keep it after all. If you do want to discuss Athena in a balanced way, I'd love to participate.

By the way, are you getting the AS-R1's as surrounds?

 

[Tim O...]

Kevin, I don't want to turn this into one of those highly antagonistic threads. But I stand by the majority of what I've already written, and I will honestly address your points here:

"I won't doubt that some changes in sound may occur, but you make it sound like I should wait for the AS-C1 to undergo some miraculous metamorphasis. ... Over the last 10 years, I have had brand new and fairly expensive Polks, Infinities, Paradigm, and now Athena - all of them, years later, had the exact same sound they did when I bought them new."

Dwayne already dealt with this and you agreed with him. On the whole break-in issue, my point is that you didn't give the product a chance--didn't follow the recommended setup routine, and yet blasted it in public. Do you see how ironic it is that all of your posts up to now, including the thread title, lead people to believe this speaker is a piece of crap, and now you've decided you're going to keep it? I personally don't care how you feel about it, but I believe in honest and balanced opinions and representation. I'll deal with the continued hyperbole below about me "being on Athena's payroll," but yes, of course I'm more interested in balancing out such exaggerated criticism of something I own and like. It's human nature. But I'd argue that I do it in a fair way. I don't think Athena's the best thing since sliced bread, but it's not "the underachieving centre channel of the year" either--otherwise you wouldn't have kept it, would you?


"BTW, I forgot to post here that I indeed decided to stay w/ the Athena AS-C1 and have had it in my system now for slightly over a month. It, as well as the AS-F2's, are well broken in now. And guess what, Tim O, while I feel that I can live w/ the sound of it, I'm still somewhat underwhelmed w/ its overall presence and soundstage."

Good for you, I'm happy you made a decision on a centre. But again, do you see the huge disconnect between "underachieving center channel of the year," "Maybe the AS-C1 is in small mode...BECAUSE IT'S A FRIGGIN SMALL CENTER CHANNEL!!!!"? and "I'm still somewhat underwhelmed w/ its overall presence and soundstage"?


"IMO, this is hogwash, hogwash, hogwash for the reasons mentioned above. With all the speaker combos I've had, break-in has meant little to nothing in my experience."

I disagree and you've admitted that you can not absolutely conclude this from your own experience. But even if true, the fact remains that you didn't follow the manufacturer's recommendation but then went on to offer and incite a lot of vitriole about the product.


"What's so strange about that? Many other on this forum and others have had the same concerns."

So you're saying that many people on these forums have said they liked the pleasingly detailed nature of a speaker and then called it the underachiever of the year? I find that hard to believe. Again I think the issue here is not your opinion, but the over-the-top way you stated it.


"I've never did that w/ any other speaker that I liked. Why start w/ the Athenas - a budget speaker?"

You're free to do what you want. But if you don't follow the manufacturer's instructions and then lambaste it in public, you'd better be prepared to be challenged on it and to own your remarks.



"The majority of people here never bought, owned, much less properly setup BOSE speakers, but almost everyone here is negative about them, criticizes them, and makes snide remarks about them. Do you think that's unfair as well? Where is your over-righteous defense of BOSE?"

Yes I do think it's unfair for people to do that, if they've never heard, nor know nothing about, BOSE products. I've heard them, and I know enough about them to know that a) they are not well designed, b) they're way overpriced, and c) BOSE employs enormous amounts of false marketing. These are what I base my opinion on. But even if BOSE made a good product, I probably wouldn't spend my time defending them, because I don't own them. I do own Athena and like them, and therefore I am interested in seeing fair and balanced treatment of them in public. As far as being over-righteous, I think you're betraying your hyperbolic nature again. All I've done is offer informed criticism and insist on balanced dialogue.


"Seriously though, can you really call it "negative" when I love and purchase a closely related Athena product - the AS-F2's? I really wanted to love the AS-C1 as well, but I just felt it had shortcomings as a complement of the awesome AS-F2's."

If you'd titled or begun this thread with a statement like that, I'd probably never have called you to task.


"I have had a RS SPL meter for 5 years now and would never have uncalibrated speakers."

That tells us more and lends credibility to your opinion.


"In all honesty, perhaps you're right. After all, I only paid $138 + tax for it on sale at Best Buy. But by the same token, I didn't pay alot at all for the AS-F2's, but I find their sound quality 3-5 times better than what I paid for them."

I think this is a key point. And it could be that the F2's are that much better, and that much better than the F1's. Personally I find the F1's and C1 are a good match, although I am going to take a closer listen as a result of this thread.

quote:


"The AS-C1 is small. It was one-third smaller than my Paradigm CC-350 which was not a very large CC at all."

Fair enough. Maybe it's small for c.c. *in any price range*. But is it small for a $138 c. c., and is it the underperformer of the year in that price range. I seriously doubt it.


"Sony SAW-M40 w/ the crossover turned up all the way and the receiver's internal crossover set at 80Hz for all speakers."

That's what I thought. I think this is likely your problem with any centre channel that you've tried, and perhaps especially with the $138 Athena. You're using a $200, 120 watt sub, and expecting it to handle not only LFE, but also summed bass from all other channels, and to keep up with four 8" drivers in your very sensitive mains. That's just completely unrealistic. If you had a true sub, properly configured, I bet you'd find your centre and surrounds' performance much better.


"Actually, it sounds like you're on the Athena payroll."

This is more of the exaggeration that prompted my response in the first place.


"Would you have such an over-righteous tone had you bought a speaker setup other than Athena? If you're simply defending the dignity of Athena, why not defend BOSE since they suffer most here from defamation of character?"

I dealt with this above.


"I now own a speaker that I once "slammed", how ironic."

As I noted above, it is quite ironic and delineates how unnecessary and over-the-top your thread title is.


"That's a very dumbed-down false assessment of my initial experience w/ the AS-C1. Like I mentioned earlier, it doesn't take me 100 hrs to decide I have a problem w/ something."

Is it really dumbed down? That's all we knew about your audition of the C1 until this post.


"(See above.) Why are you so insistent on knowing my setup? It has zero relevance of my opinion of the AS-C1."

On the complete contrary, Kevin, it has all the relevance in the world. Just as one example: as I stated above, you're using what appears to be a massively underqualified sub to complement your mains and handle information from the rest of your channels. That is almost certainly a factor in your opinion of ANY c. c. in your setup, not just the Athena. Then there's the mulitude of configuration options and tweaks that could affect performance, about which we know little.


"Man, you really need a girlfriend. And don't forget to sign your Athena payroll check on the back, otherwise, the bank teller won't cash it."

This is more of the facetiousness and hyperbole that led me to find your opinions non-credible.


"Finally, it's spelled CENTER, not CENTRE"

The other gentleman from Canada addressed this.


In sum, you're free to buy what you want and feel how you want about it Kevin. But when you enter public space and offer your opinions, be prepared to have them examined and criticized. You seem knowledgeable enough, but in my estimation you worded your opinion poorly and contradicted yourself badly by calling this the underachiever of the year, not setting it up properly, and then deciding to keep it after all. If you do want to discuss Athena in a balanced way, I'd love to participate.

By the way, are you getting the AS-R1's as surrounds?

 

[Kevin Alexander]

TimO, we've both said what we had to say. Can we just drop this? I'm sorry that this thread has offended you. As a matter of fact, I don't think anyone has taken this thread as serious as you. I don't know how long you have followed the HTF, but I'd say that the majority of stuff presented here is done in jest. The same thing that you criticize my thread for you will find in other threads scattered throughout the forum. Both you and I have something in common - we both love the sound of the AS-F2 speakers, and as I've mentioned, while I have serious reservations about the AS-C1, I've decided I can live w/ it for now. So once again, please accept my apologies and thanks for the recommendation on me getting a better sub - I've have been eyeing an SVS that I will try to move on after I finish remodeling my kitchen. And as far as surrounds go, I definately want the AS-R1's, but I gotta sell my Polks and Wharfedales first.

 

[Kevin Alexander]

TimO, we've both said what we had to say. Can we just drop this? I'm sorry that this thread has offended you. As a matter of fact, I don't think anyone has taken this thread as serious as you. I don't know how long you have followed the HTF, but I'd say that the majority of stuff presented here is done in jest. The same thing that you criticize my thread for you will find in other threads scattered throughout the forum. Both you and I have something in common - we both love the sound of the AS-F2 speakers, and as I've mentioned, while I have serious reservations about the AS-C1, I've decided I can live w/ it for now. So once again, please accept my apologies and thanks for the recommendation on me getting a better sub - I've have been eyeing an SVS that I will try to move on after I finish remodeling my kitchen. And as far as surrounds go, I definately want the AS-R1's, but I gotta sell my Polks and Wharfedales first.

 

[Tim O...]

Kevin that sounds fine to me. The only things I take seriously on forums are ill-founded claims, or critiques obviously not made in jest. Not trying to pick on you, just wanted to get to the truth of the matter.

I'm seriously curious why you decided to go with the AS-R1s. I haven't heard them, but I assumed they wouldn't stack up to more expensive surrounds from the likes of Axiom, Paradigm, etc. (taking into account of course that each person prefers certain types of "sound," i.e. laid-back, forward, bright, etc.). I've heard a lot of good things about the QS8s, and if/when I upgrade I think Axioms would be one of my first demos. Ever heard/owned those? If the R1s compare favourably to them and/or others, I might pick some up until the upgrade, since I only have direct radiating B2s right now.

 

[Tim O...]

Kevin that sounds fine to me. The only things I take seriously on forums are ill-founded claims, or critiques obviously not made in jest. Not trying to pick on you, just wanted to get to the truth of the matter.

I'm seriously curious why you decided to go with the AS-R1s. I haven't heard them, but I assumed they wouldn't stack up to more expensive surrounds from the likes of Axiom, Paradigm, etc. (taking into account of course that each person prefers certain types of "sound," i.e. laid-back, forward, bright, etc.). I've heard a lot of good things about the QS8s, and if/when I upgrade I think Axioms would be one of my first demos. Ever heard/owned those? If the R1s compare favourably to them and/or others, I might pick some up until the upgrade, since I only have direct radiating B2s right now.

 

[EricRWem]

Y'know...I break a speaker in simply because...I use it.

 

[EricRWem]

Y'know...I break a speaker in simply because...I use it.

 

[Greg Thomas]

So did anyone ever try the SCT C1 they have in stock at Onecall for $275?

 

[Kevin Alexander]

where did that come from? i thought the sct series was discontinued?

 

[GregoriusM]

I just have to throw in my two cents.

I totally agree with the person above who said that the only way to evaluate what "break-in time" does to your speakers to is A/B two sets of the SAME speakers until you find that they are as close as you will get (yes, I believe that the same speakers from one company can sound slightly different)....... then, break one set in for at least 75 hours..... usually doing the CD repeat idea.... and THEN you A/B those two sets of speakers using the identical setup and equipment you started with.

I believe you will find that virtually every speaker, especially of the standard box/cone driver type, WILL "break in" and usually for the better.

I have done this with a number of speakers...... even the SPX-177A Alpine speakers in my car weren't all that impressive until I allowed them to be broken in.

I had listened to the broken in ones in the store, but when they installed them in the car (yes, I know they'll sound different anyway), I was totally unimpressed. They told me "Give them 50 or more hours, then see what you think".

Bingo! I love those speakers now!

Yep..... speakers DO need breaking in.

Do the test above. You'd be surprised, I'm sure!

Greg

 

[Nigel Hooper]

Added a B2 to my basement system instead of the C1 and it sounds VASTLY better.

 

[Chuck_W]

I recently placed my as-c1 vertically which has greatly improved dialog clarity for off-axis seating. based on these results, i just ordered a set of as-b2's with the intent of trying one as a center.

 

[Nigel Hooper]

Chuck I don't think you'll be disappointed at all.

 

[Chuck_W]

Thanks Nigel...I was a little concerned since it's a pricey experiment but it sounds like it may be a good move.

 

[Nigel Hooper]

Get the speakers Chuck?

 

[Chuck_W]

Yes sir I did. At first I hooked them up in place of my AS-F2's just to see what they sounded like. They sound like mini-ASF2's to me! They would do quite nicely as main speakers...a good match for the F2's as a center...a little closer in tone than the C1.

I'm still surprised at the improvement in the C1 after placing it vertically. But I think the B2 has a richer tone. The C1 did seem to have crisper highs and a little better detail, but then again I only have a few hours on the B2...the C1 was well broken-in. But those crisp highs leaned toward the bright side, and the B2 seems less fatiguing with some soundtracks. I'm currently watching the Alias season one set, and with the AS-C1 there was some harsh brightness with certain voices and effects. I've watched 2 episodes with the B2 as center, and have noticed a definite mellowing of the brightness.