Ah! I knew Blu Ray was snake oil! (1 Viewer)

[Matt Hough]

Originally Posted by Dave H

Tony,
Do you know what type of display technology your TV is? Is it a CRT rear projection? LCD? DLP?

If he's talking about red, blue, and green guns that have to be aligned, it's a rear projection CRT. Its peak resolution is likely 1080i. My first HDTV was a Toshiba with "guns" that used a component cable hookup (there were no HDMI ports on it), and it maxed out at 1080i. I've had three other HDTVs since then, all 1080p models, and I still have that old Toshiba in my front bedroom (it still works). However, the picture can't compare to any of my subsequent TVs. It looks soft in comparison to the sets I have had since I used this one as my primary set.

 

[RobertR]

So let's see....a moderately big rear projection TV with a six year old convergence (which could have easily become misconverged) set up by store employees with unknown sharpness and other settings instead of a reputable ISF professional and component cable connections is supposed to be "proof" that BR is overrated.

 

[Adam Gregorich]

Originally Posted by Todd H

Since it sounds like you've connected the player via component cables, could ICT be the culprit?

http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/10/analog-sunset-begins-all-the-new-blu-ray-players-will-only-outp/

Good call Todd. What Blu-ray player (make/model) did you buy Tony?

 

[Matt Hough]

Originally Posted by RobertR

So let's see....a moderately big rear projection TV with a six year old convergence (which could have easily become misconverged) set up by store employees with unknown sharpness and other settings instead of a reputable ISF professional and component cable connections is supposed to be "proof" that BR is overrated.

In the last year that I was using my projection set, I had to realign the guns every week (the set offered automatic and manual realignment in the set-up menu) because they would drift slightly out of convergence with the heavy use I was giving my set.

 

[Worth]

To the original poster, do you see a difference between DVD and HD on any source? Because blu-ray should look better or at least as good as cable/satellite HD. I have a 51" Hitachi rear-projection CRT that doesn't see much use these days, but I can still see a significant difference between DVD and blu-ray.

 

[Dave H]

If he's talking about red, blue, and green guns that have to be aligned, it's a rear projection CRT. Its peak resolution is likely 1080i. My first HDTV was a Toshiba with "guns" that used a component cable hookup (there were no HDMI ports on it), and it maxed out at 1080i. I've had three other HDTVs since then, all 1080p models, and I still have that old Toshiba in my front bedroom (it still works). However, the picture can't compare to any of my subsequent TVs. It looks soft in comparison to the sets I have had since I used this one as my primary set.

Component cables (assuming that's what he's using) can be used with digital displays, as well. I am not aware of Mits making a 52" CRT RPTV....if Tony is correct about the size. I do recall a 51" and 55" CRT RPTV Mits used to make as I came very close to buying that back in 2004. Assuming he does in fact have a CRT RPTV, I can only imagine how poor the convergence and focus is on the set by now, not to mention the severe dust build up on the guns and mirror. I wouldn't expect anyone to be able to tell much of a difference from anything on something like that. Tony should consider one of the top traveling ISF calibrators to do his display if it is indeed a CRT RPV. He would be amazed at the difference.

 

[WinstonCely]

Sounds like a combination of older television and method of connecting BD player to TV. From my limited knowledge, as of right now the best way to carry the highest quality signal from player to television is via HDMI. Of course, that's the bare minimum in the litany of items that must be checked/calibrated to ensure high quality display of the image. Obviously, this is not in everyone's budget, but most of the people I know and threads I've read, typically call for a television upgrade when going from standard def to high def, particularly in SD DVD to BD DVD. A 6 year old TV certainly sounds like a good candidate for an upgrade, or at least a professional service person to come in a check it out.

 

[Jason Charlton]

Originally Posted by Tony J Case

...pick up a cheap blue ray player.

I'm poised to be blown away by this awesome new format. Sock it to me, New Technology!

Meh. No thanks, I'm sticking with the old format.

Originally Posted by Tony J Case [url=/t/315585/ah-i-knew-blu-ray-was-snake-oil#post_3861931]

I jumped through all the "So you're turning me on first time" hoops correctly, I think.

I have no idea, because I didnt do the calibrating. It was the delivery men came by and lugged the thing into my house, they did all the setting up for me. They plugged a gizmo in and aligned the guns and did a whole bunch of red/green/blue tests.

I was caught up in the crushing disappointment of having what was being touted as The Next Big Thing look like. . . . well the exact same thing that I've had all along. That was not my intent.

Tony, I'm disappointed that your experience with BR wasn't on par with what the rest of us have experienced, but from the tone and wording you used in your posts, I must say that it sounds like:

• You aren't quite as much of a "hands on" type like many of the enthusiasts on this site, and unfortunately, setting up a BR player/system for the first time takes a bit more effort than simply "plugging it in".
• You developed a bit of a disdain/resentment for the new technology (hence waiting so long to adopt) and perhaps a bit of you WANTED it to fail to live up to your expectations and you're not going to give it a chance to succeed for you.
• You seem to have a disconnect between wanting to experience the best in picture/sound quality and providing yourself with the equipment necessary to realize such improvements (non-HDMI CRT display that could very well be out of alignment, possibly "cheap" player, you didn't mention what your sound system is, but you're missing out on 50% of the benefit of BR if you're still listening to lossy DD or worse).

I sincerely hope that we will be able to help talk you through the problems you're experiencing and can get you to see the benefit that we all see. Hopefully you haven't already made up your mind to quit now.


Finally, many of the "issues" you described WRT the SW trilogy movies have nothing to do with the Blu-Ray technology - it's in the transfers themselves (there's, like, a BAZILLION posts about it peppered all over the forum...)

 

[elementBike]

Tony, Have you visited an electronics store (Best Buy, etc.) to view BD demo material on a high-end display? Does it look different/better/the same as your display? r

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Tony, Have you visited an electronics store (Best Buy, etc.) to view BD demo material on a high-end display? Does it look different/better/the same as your display? r

This is the real question. If Tony can't see a difference on properly calibrated equipment, then there's no point in upgrading his equipment. I will say that on our 42" Vizio (~$650 at the time of purchase a year or two ago, so far from high end) LCD TV connected to Blu-Ray via HDMI, I notice a difference. It's not as stark as going from 320 line VHS to 480 line anamorphic DVD, but it's a definite improvement. At 52 inches, the difference should be more noticable. Sounds like the BD player limiting the component output to 480p might be the culprit.

 

[Scott Merryfield]

In the last year that I was using my projection set, I had to realign the guns every week (the set offered automatic and manual realignment in the set-up menu) because they would drift slightly out of convergence with the heavy use I was giving my set. 

 

I had a similar experience with my old Toshiba 56-inch 1080i RPTV. As it got older, the convergence would get misaligned every couple of weeks, and it required going into service mode to perform a proper realignment (a very tedious process that I do not miss performing). The set was ISF-calibrated, but would still look poor once the convergence was off. Even on its best days, though, the set doesn't come close to comparing with my current LED-based 1080p DLP set for picture quality.

 

[Worth]

[quote name="Tony J Case" url="/t/315585/ah-i-knew-blu-ray-was-snake-oil#post_3861848]If there's a Sexy New Increase in the visuals, I'm not seeing it.[/quote] If you don't see a difference, consider yourself lucky. Your wallet will thank you.

 

[RobertR]

"I KNEW Blu Ray was snake oil". Sounds like he had a predetermined judgement set up for him to justify.

 

[TonyD]

"I KNEW Blu Ray was snake oil". Sounds like he had a predetermined judgement set up for him to justify.

I said the same thing a few posts back. Anyway is this the correct location for this topic, now that we have a good idea that this is equipment related?

 

[Jason Charlton]

Regardless, it's looking less and less likely that he's even interested in pursuing a solution to the problem. He's made his complaint and that's that. Guess we can all move on. Too bad.

 

[nolesrule]

I have a similar aged Mitsubishi 1080i RP HDTV, though it's the 55". My Blu-ray player is connected via HDMI (or more accurately, the HDPC compliant DVI connector). The convergence isn't great, and there's burn-in from 4x3 material we watch (trying to convince the wife to replace the thing), but even with all that, the difference between DVD and any HD broadcast or Blu-ray is night and day.

 

[Robert George]

CRT rear projection, on a good day, will not yield much more than about 1200 TV lines of resolution, and that if the thing is set up properly. Even a little convergence drift and visible resolution will drop precipitously. We're talking 720p resolution or less.


So yeah, I can see how someone watching on an older rig would not be "wowed" by Blu-ray.

 

[Scott Calvert]

Make sure the BD player is set on 1080p output. Just about every BD player has settings to output different resolutions - 480i/480p/720p/1080i/1080p

 

[Colin Jacobson]

Originally Posted by RobertR

"I KNEW Blu Ray was snake oil". Sounds like he had a predetermined judgement set up for him to justify.

Yup. If he discussed basic disappointment, that'd be one thing, but this thread leads one to believe he WANTED to think BD wouldn't look good.


Honestly, I don't know how someone can't think BD looks way better than DVD on a good set-up. I really resisted BD myself and clung to any claims I found that said it wasn't much better than DVD.


Then I saw it on my set and realized those claims were really, really wrong. I was stunned by the upgrade.


Every once in a while I find a BD that looks the same - or worse - than a DVD, but the vast majority offer a big step up in quality,,,

 

[Ronald Epstein]

I remember my first HD display. It was the one I owned
back in 2007 when Blu-ray first appeared on the scene. It
was already two years old and one of the last HD displays
manufactured without an HDMI connection.


Since the display only had a component conenction, that is
all I could use to hook up my brand-new Blu-ray player.

My reaction was sort of like the one of the OP. I was not
immediately impressed with the picture quality I was getting
from the format.


It wasn't until my next display purchase, months later, a
65" DLP with HDMI connection that I was able to see the
real benefit of Blu-ray. The picture quality was miles ahead
of what I was seeing with the component display.


And since I gave that same component display away to my
friends, they had the exact same reaction about Blu-ray before
they were given my 65" DLP display with HDMI connection (when
I got my latest 3D plasma).

So, I kind of see the trend here. I think the older HD sets --
especially those with component inputs -- just don't do justice
to Blu-ray like the new displays. I believe that is the big reason
why the OP can't see significant picture difference.



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