A Few Words About A few words about...™ The Sound of Music -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[Robert Harris]

Thrilled about both of your replies on Posts #393 and #394; as the recent conversations had become counter-intuitive to what I've been learning about concerning the advancements of technology and restoration. After the second 70mm restoration and BD transfer of "Lawrence of Arabia", I knew that all was possible. Thanks for putting the conversations back on track, as I am certain that all are glad to learn differently amidst our current states of near resignation. This is altogether fantastic and uplifting news, to say the least.

BTW, it was your review from this very thread that led to my finally shifting over to BD purchases. Although I did not have the advantages of High-End Equipment that other HTF members do I, nonetheless, marveled at what I was seeing. Goosebumps and, to be honest, a few occasional tears were my experience from watching "The Sound of Music" on BD. It also made me a Shawn Belston fan, as well. I was quite moved by the work that had been achieved. Nonetheless, the ensuing technical conversations upon this thread have been compelling. So, do you agree with the others that the color palate and sound design are something to be further tweaked at this stage of our technical advancements?

Finally, what aspects from "The Sound of Music" OCN and its future 4K transfer would you hope to see improved, as well?

To be technically accurate, there was no BD transfer of Lawrence.

It was merely a slightly massaged down-rez from the 4k data files.

 

[Worth]

What is the Magnetic Striping process and what are its goals?
In terms of Sound, is this akin to striking a new print from an OCN?

It's physically adding magnetic audio tracks to a film print.

 

[Robert Harris]

What is the Magnetic Striping process and what are its goals?
In terms of Sound, is this akin to striking a new print from an OCN?

Before Dolby created SVA, allowing the printing of stereo information to a 35mm print, all we had was magnetic.

While I personally believe mag was superior to optical, in any form, mag was very easily damaged. Treated properly, mag prints, especially 70mm, could survive for a year or more in projection.

Mag audio was slightly smoother than digital, and partially because of the single generation loss from the print master to the print. As such, it could hide the occasional sins of the original recording. Listen to Wilfrid Hyde-White's dialogue, as he descents the stairs before Miss Hepburn makes her entrance in the ball gown, and you'll hear, what we lovingly refer to as "the ghost on the stairs."

Going down a generation, or two, more than half loses it. Not so in a 96k image harvest from the original 6-track, direct to DCP and BD.

Once SVA arrived, the age of magnetic was essentially over.

There were a final handful of release up into the mid-'80s, for filmmakers who insisted upon absolute quality, but except for those...

 

[PMF]

SoM would make a gorgeous 4k release, and Fox has the people in place to create it! [...]

"My Fair Lady" and "The Sound of Music" were exhibited only one year apart from each other.
Both are 70mm fares.
Both have been restored.
But, in the case of "My Fair Lady" and despite its twice being restored, you once wrote that it would not be a strong candidate for 4K.
Yet, with "The Sound of Music" you say differently.
Which of the two films had more demands placed on its OCN?
Also, are there any other factors that make one film a strong candidate for 4K, while leaving the other as not?

 

[Robert Harris]

The speed of the 70mm print, at 112.5 feet per minute, yielded audio playback far in excess of normal audio tape, hence the incredible quality of reproduction.

 

[Robert Harris]

"My Fair Lady" and "The Sound of Music" were exhibited only one year apart from each other.
Both are 70mm fares.
Both have been restored.
But, in the case of "My Fair Lady" and despite its twice being restored, you once wrote that it would not be a strong candidate for 4K.
Yet, with "The Sound of Music" you say differently.
Which of the two films had more demands placed on its OCN?
Also, are there any other factors that make one film a strong candidate for 4K, while leaving the other as not?

I don't recall ever saying that.

I did say that it isn't a candidate for HDR.

 

[PMF]

I don't recall ever saying that.

I did say that it isn't a candidate for HDR.

"By George, I think you've got it".
It was HDR that you spoke of.
My mistake and thanks for clarifying.

 

[PMF]

Marketing-wise (or should that be marketing-"Wise"), I feel that 20th Century-Fox should dispense with the traditional anniversary gaps of every 5 years, concerning "The Sound of Music".
With the advent of 4K panels, projection and discs off to an uncertain en masse beginning, "The Sound of Music" would be THE film to offer as early as possible. It may very well prove to be amongst the rarest of titles responsible for opening the floodgates of consumer commitment, in this new era of Home Viewing,
And don't forget that "The Sound of Music" on BD - or, rather, RAH's review of it - become the very selling point for my own long-overdue transition from DVD to BD. Imagine what "The Sound of Music" could do at this still early stage for 4K marketing.

 

[PMF]

[...] We can no longer stripe print due to health concerns. [...]

Concerning the purities of the original sound design and its reinstatement to a future 4K disc, will this inability to "stripe print" play a factor in the desired outcome, as discussed and hoped for by many within this thread?

 

[Stephen_J_H]

What is the Magnetic Striping process and what are its goals?
In terms of Sound, is this akin to striking a new print from an OCN?

Striping is done post-printing, as the magnetic stripes wind up covering a portion of the negative area. I'm not sure whether the health concerns related to mag striping have to do with the iron oxide used to carry the sound or the adhesive used to bind the striping to the print. The vast majority of 70mm films pre-digital sound era were produced with mag striping. A magnetic audio track has more fidelity to the original source audio than an optical track from the same period would have, due to the inherent limitations of analogue optical audio and the "real estate" occupied on a 70mm print by the mag track and the speed at which it passes the sound head [24fps is approximately 22ips of mag tape speed, with tracks that are at least as wide as the stereo tracks on an audiocassette].

 

[Robert Harris]

Marketing-wise (or should that be marketing-"Wise"), I feel that 20th Century-Fox should dispense with the traditional anniversary gaps of every 5 years, concerning "The Sound of Music".
With the advent of 4K panels, projection and discs off to an uncertain en masse beginning, "The Sound of Music" would be THE film to offer as early as possible. It may very well prove to be amongst the rarest of titles responsible for opening the floodgates of consumer commitment, in this new era of Home Viewing,
And don't forget that "The Sound of Music" on BD - or, rather, RAH's review of it - become the very selling point for my own long-overdue transition from DVD to BD. Imagine what "The Sound of Music" could do at this still early stage for 4K marketing.

Sorry.

Less than zero interest from the industry on this.

 

[Stephen_J_H]

Sorry.

Less than zero interest from the industry on this.

Sad, but true. When it comes to "killer apps" for 4K UHD, the interest from the industry is more in material that can "do HDR" than classic era large format films.

 

[seangood79]

To answer the question re mag v DTS 70, two very different beasts.

We can no longer stripe print due to health concerns.

DTS is fine, and works as long as they is someone competent in the booth. It's a fine system.

Aurally, many differences.

I would also like to point out that 70mm DTS (now called Datasat) is capable to reproduce 6 channel audio. That's 5 screen channels and mono surround. So just because you're listening to a digital soundtrack doesn't mean you're listening to the 5.1 mix used for the Blu Ray.
They do make the 5.1 version available for theaters that don't have the speaker setup for 6 channel. I'd be shocked to find out that the Cinerama Dome was one of those theaters.
I don't know about Sound of Music, but I've watched West Side Story and Cleopatra on 70mm in 6 channel digital and both sounded fantastic.
I recommend before buying tickets to call the theater and ask. Just make sure you reach someone who knows what you're asking. Chances are the box office person will not know what you're talking about.

 

[RobertSiegel]

Sorry.

Less than zero interest from the industry on this.

What a shame, because The Sound of Music will be the film that gets me to go 4k.

 

[DP 70]

I have seen many 70mm DTS 6 Track Special Venue prints and the sound has been fantastic as well.

I have been informed that the 70mm DTS print of 2001 now in the UK has 8 Channel audio.

 

[Robert Harris]

I have seen many 70mm DTS 6 Track Special Venue prints and the sound has been fantastic as well.

I have been informed that the 70mm DTS print of 2001 now in the UK has 8 Channel audio.

For what purpose?

 

[PMF]

Sorry.

Less than zero interest from the industry on this.

I am assuming you meant that the industry has a zero interest in closing the 5 year marketing gap towards an earlier release date. If that's the case, I shouldn't be surprised. To all our frustrations, it's worked so brilliantly in the past.

 

[Stephen_J_H]

I have seen many 70mm DTS 6 Track Special Venue prints and the sound has been fantastic as well.

I have been informed that the 70mm DTS print of 2001 now in the UK has 8 Channel audio.

For what purpose?

For MOAR SPEAKERS, of course.

 

[PMF]

[...] I don't know about Sound of Music, but I've watched West Side Story and Cleopatra on 70mm in 6 channel digital and both sounded fantastic.[...]

Wish I could've seen those two gems as you had. Lucky.
Which leads me to wonder what the future of "West Side Story" holds concerning a 4K UHD disc; especially since the 6-Track Sound Design was absent in the BD from 2012/3.

 

[RobertSiegel]

Robert Harris,maybe you have you been following the thread with all the posts about the color being changed completely from all previous versions, and the high end removed from the soundtrack. Here is the information:

We suspect that to get rid of the tape hiss, which would be there on a recording from 1965, Fox deleted all of the information above a certain frequency (and it shows him doing just that in the "restoring the sound" feature on the blu-ray) because previous editions have the higher end there and I have compared them all with professional headphones and the high end is missing from the blu-ray. Could this be because they used the 6 track master for the first time and the high end has worn off? Even if you switch to the French track on the blu-ray the high end is beautiful. Oklahoma has a gorgeous high end, not there at all in The Sound of Music. Were the original elements run so many times the high end is gone? Again, if you watch the restoring the sound extra on the blu-ray, he shows us how he removed the tape hiss, which was a certain color on his computer screen, but if you look closely, there is other color information there that I suspect were musical instruments and other high end sounds. PLUS we have all determined that some of the dialogue lines were removed and sound effects, like the apron slap after she sings "My heart wants to sing every song" during the opening title, it's there on all previous versions.

In a previous thread, Warnerbro said, "This film actually won an Oscar for sound, but the folks who worked on this soundtrack cut off the ends of speeches ("Oh, Max, what did they sa--"), completely jettisoned many sound effects like the thigh slap, her kiss to Leisel (during the "MY FAVORITE THINGS" reprise Maria blows Liesel a kiss) and many others."

We also know that Fox severely changed the entire color scheme so that the blu-ray has a overwhelming brown/beige/green tone, compared to all previous versions which had much more blue and pink (including the Robert Wise approved laserdisc box set version and the 40th anniversary DVD edition).

Can you give us some detail about this and if you agree with many of us?

I just want to state that I highly respect the work of Shawn at Fox. But many of us also remember the 1965 70mm version too, and some are disappointed at the issues above and also the blu-ray of The King and I.