UHD Review A Few Words About A few words about...™ - Paint Your Wagon -- in 4k UHD (2 Viewers)

[edelweissflower]

The trouble is that there's two different "they": Paramount for Paint Your Wagon (& they didn't release it themselves, they licensed it out to Kino), & Warner for Brigadoon, which as I understand is a 2K scan of an interpositive, so they'd have to start again from scratch for a 4K release, which I can't see happening. But it will be interesting to see what MGM films are released this year, Blu-ray & 4K.

couldn't agree more, Kino seems to be prepared to release far more than a lot of the studios combined Disney(20th Century Fox) Warner, Paramount, Universal [look at how Kino released 'Flower Drum Song on to Blu-Ray) not Universal; yes it will MGM.

 

[Into The Archives]

With a single problem, that will only be noted by those viewing from a Critical Viewing Distance (CVD) as opposed to a Nominal Viewing Distance (NVD).

Color and densities here work beautifully. Black levels are on target. Grain structure is generally great and seems original. The only problem that I'm seeing, and I have no idea why it's there, are frozen sky blobs (FSBs), in which grain structure takes an a life of its own. I make that note only to be critically precise, as I doubt that any NVD viewer will see a trace of it.

From a NVD, Paint Your Wagon is glorious.

Just wondering…..do we know if the master was supplied by Paramount to Kino, or did Kino oversee the remaster with scans from Paramount?

 

[edelweissflower]

This new release will fit in nicely with the rest of my Wagon media collection.

Have you got the original Broadway cast album of the 1951 stage production? and to you have/seen the documentary from 1988 'Lerner & Loewe Broadway's Last Romantics' great footage on there of the original star of 'Paint Your Wagon' Olga San Juan singing songs cut from the film. The stage musical is an entirely different plot but contains more great songs from Lerner & Loewe than in the film.

 

[edelweissflower]

The movie version was not made until 1969!

But:

But, but, but .... was there another movie version earlier?
But, but, but .... DVD was not invented until around 1996
and
LaserDisks were first available to the public in around 1978.

Moving right along, Paint Your Wagon was shown in 70mm in San Francisco. It was rollicking, in punchy 6 channel (5 for music) stereo, more so than a number of other musicals. We visited the projection booth afterward (as we often did) to look over the equipment and chat with the projectionists. They told us the distributor had carried a message from the studio that the sound was to be at standard level at first, then when the wagon rolls down the hill a few minutes after the opening credits, when the audience expects the audio to be loud, the projectionists were to turn the audio up by a certain number of dB (I forget how much), and leave it there. Very interesting! Decades later an old coot (even older than me!) I corresponded with who had projected a lot of 70mm (80 Days, Ben-Hur, etc.) said he had heard similar requests from studios before, but couldn't remember from whom. I was surprised that the theater's AMPEX power amps were only 125 wts RMS (I know, I know) for each of the 6 channels. I suppose the reason is that their 4 woofer per channel, horn loaded speakers were very, very sensitive ("efficient"). They didn't know, but guessed at 60 dB EMI (was it EMI?) I (which would be the equivalent of approx. 109 dB @ 2.83v (1 wt into 8 Ohms) @ 1 Meter, I think, per speaker.

Why all these loose associations? I am still angry that when I took my new girlfriend (now my wife of 49 years) to PYW in 35mm (all that was available at that time) it was in mono optical, and sounded pretty horrible, with practically no dynamics! So now, we play it at home, in 5.1, good and loud, with a little punch up when the wagon careens down that hill.

People often say that, the songs of 'Paint Your Wagon' were loved and sung from it's stage premiere in 1951. Very underrated musical from Lerner & Loewe, the stage musical, that is, the plot is entirely different that the film and contains even more great songs than the film, like the earlier underrated musical from them 'The Day Before Spring' in 1945 which is yet to be filmed, it was of course 'Brigadoon' in 1947 that became their first great 'hit' musical.

 

[Mark B]

Have you got the original Broadway cast album of the 1951 stage production? and to you have/seen the documentary from 1988 'Lerner & Loewe Broadway's Last Romantics' great footage on there of the original star of 'Paint Your Wagon' Olga San Juan singing songs cut from the film. The stage musical is an entirely different plot but contains more great songs from Lerner & Loewe than in the film.

I do have the RCA Cast Album and my VHS of that documentary when it aired in 1988.

 

[B-ROLL]

I do have the RCA Cast Album and my VHS of that documentary when it aired in 1988.

To Be sure ... here is the CD cover ...

Amazon.com

 

[edelweissflower]

I do have the RCA Cast Album and my VHS of that documentary when it aired in 1988.

Great! I managed to get it on DVD when I lost my VHS recording.

 

[Stephen_J_H]

It's not a Paint Your Wagon thread without this:

 

[roxy1927]

Paint Your Wagon has never worked for me.

It's just infested with the bloat and rot inexplicably affecting mid-sixties road show musicals in general. Some survived it.

My Fair Lady, The Music Man, West Side Story, Hello Dolly!, Fiddler on the Roof, Half a Sixpence, The Umbrellas of Cherbourg, Funny Girl, Mary Poppins, The Sound of Music...all good stuff - in some cases, great - actually.

More problematic with movies like Star!, Gypsy, Goodbye Mr. Chips, Bye-Bye Birdie, Can-Can, Oh What A Lovely War, Camelot, Oliver! and, Sweet Charity - though I would still classify each as a fascinatingly uneven artistic failure, rather than a grotesque implosion of the Hollywood hybrid musical as an art form.

For that, I turn to Paint Your Wagon, On A Clear Day You Can See Forever, Man of La Mancha, and, (choke!) the musical remake of Lost Horizon.

I'm surprised you don't like Gypsy, Bye, Bye Birdie, Oliver! and Sweet Charity. I like them all a lot. You're one of the few people on the planet along with me who likes Half a Sixpence. When I was a kid I just walked backstage at Sugar(you could sometimes do it in those days) and when I told Ritchard how much I liked the movie he just sort of looked at me as if he didn't needed to be reminded of it. It played very few months roadshow at the Criterion in Times Square I imagine to mostly empty houses. Yet it played roadshow in London at the Astoria for I believe close to a year.

 

[roxy1927]

I would like to ask Mr. Harris if he saw PYW on its original roadshow run in blowup 70MM and 6 Track stereo and what he thought of it back then. As I've said at the Warner Cinerama on its 80 ft curved screen and stupendous sound system it was an experience never to be repeated. That men's chorus! I feel lucky to have seen it there. Might have been even better there than at Loew's State 2. I remember other people even saying how good it was. And I wasn't even going to go on TV it was so terrible as I've said. Something inside me said go. Also I think Lerner wrote some wonderful new lyrics that I love for Wanderin Star because they certainly aren't on the OBC. Of course they could have been cut for the OBC. But I don't remember them in Encores either.

Mud can make you prisoner, and the plains can bake you dry
Snow can burn your eyes, but only people make you cry
Home is made for comin’ from, for dreams of goin’ to
Which with any luck will never come true

I think this was well before people were saying be careful what you wish for.

 

[KPmusmag]

I would like to ask Mr. Harris if he saw PYW on its original roadshow run in blowup 70MM and 6 Track stereo and what he thought of it back then. As I've said at the Warner Cinerama on its 80 ft curved screen and stupendous sound system it was an experience never to be repeated. That men's chorus! I feel lucky to have seen it there. Might have been even better there than at Loew's State 2. I remember other people even saying how good it was. And I wasn't even going to go on TV it was so terrible as I've said. Something inside me said go. Also I think Lerner wrote some wonderful new lyrics that I love for Wanderin Star because they certainly aren't on the OBC. Of course they could have been cut for the OBC. But I don't remember them in Encores either.

Mud can make you prisoner, and the plains can bake you dry
Snow can burn your eyes, but only people make you cry
Home is made for comin’ from, for dreams of goin’ to
Which with any luck will never come true

I think this was well before people were saying be careful what you wish for.

I got out my copy of the stage vocal score and those lines are not in Wandrin' Star.

And these lines are there that are not used in the movie:

Drinkin' makes you wander,
Wandrin' makes you gray,
So pour me out a couple shots
and I'll be on my way.

Interestingly, in the Encores! version, that spot is taken by these lyrics:

I've been lots of places,
where I'd like to stay,
But when I like 'em best of all
is the day I move away.

I saw Gordon MacRae as Ben Rumson in summer stock, and I will never forget how his rendition of Wandrin' Star stopped the show. He actually sang an encore. It was a very enjoyable show.

I do love the movie and I have very pleasant memories of seeing it with my family and it was delightful to hear my parents laugh their heads off. That being said, the story of the stage play (white girl in love with Mexican boy) is still relevant to this day (unfortunately) and could have fit in with the issues of the late 60s with some reworking.

 

[roxy1927]

Justin Guarini sang the best I Talk to the Trees I recall hearing in Encores.
Anybody remember the Dean Martin Show where he sang brief parodies of songs such as 'How I love the kisses of Dolores, since she used Lavoris.'?
He also sang 'I talk to the trees, And they came and took me away.'
Harve Presnell's Maria is worth the whole movie. His magnificent voice(often heard-He's the guy from Fargo?) and the endless gray rain with the men huddled from the rain singing the chorus. The bleakness and loneliness so well captured.

 

[JPCinema]

I truly enjoyed the new 4K of Paint Your Wagon. I even got my program I bought when I went to see it in a reserve seat engagement.that played for 36 weeks.

 

[JPCinema]

I truly enjoyed the new 4K of Paint Your Wagon. I even got my program I bought when I went to see it in a reserve seat engagement.that played for 36 weeks.

The artwork of the cover and a few other parts of the program was done by a famous artist at the time, Peter Max.

 

[Nick*Z]

I'm surprised you don't like Gypsy, Bye, Bye Birdie, Oliver! and Sweet Charity. I like them all a lot. You're one of the few people on the planet along with me who likes Half a Sixpence. When I was a kid I just walked backstage at Sugar(you could sometimes do it in those days) and when I told Ritchard how much I liked the movie he just sort of looked at me as if he didn't needed to be reminded of it. It played very few months roadshow at the Criterion in Times Square I imagine to mostly empty houses. Yet it played roadshow in London at the Astoria for I believe close to a year.

Never said I didn't like Gypsy, Bye, Bye, Birdie, Oliver! or Sweet Charity. They're flawed spectaculars, fabulous in spots, but ultimately not as good as the A-list I mentioned first. Half a Sixpence is grotesquely underrated. It has such qualities, not the least the magnificent Tommy Steele pulling out all the stops. The real problem with it is that it was released at the tail end of the musical road show cycle. Just like Hello Dolly! - timing was everything. Had it debuted in 1960, I have no doubt it would have been embraced as a masterpiece. Great songs and Steele, as I said, knocks it out of the park. A much more beloved and subtly nuanced performance than he gave in Disney's The Happiest Millionaire.

 

[Douglas R]

Never said I didn't like Gypsy, Bye, Bye, Birdie, Oliver! or Sweet Charity. They're flawed spectaculars, fabulous in spots, but ultimately not as good as the A-list I mentioned first. Half a Sixpence is grotesquely underrated. It has such qualities, not the least the magnificent Tommy Steele pulling out all the stops. The real problem with it is that it was released at the tail end of the musical road show cycle. Just like Hello Dolly! - timing was everything. Had it debuted in 1960, I have no doubt it would have been embraced as a masterpiece. Great songs and Steele, as I said, knocks it out of the park. A much more beloved and subtly nuanced performance than he gave in Disney's The Happiest Millionaire.

I saw half a Sixpence in 70mm but can remember little about it other than thinking Tommy Steele was great, as you say. Always a fan, I went to a recording session of his at Decca Studios in 1960 where he recorded his album "Get Happy with Tommy".

 

[roxy1927]

Yeah as a boy I didn't want to be a sports hero. I wanted to be Tommy Steele. Anybody else remember the week Sixpence opened at the Criterion Steele was in the audience of the Ed Sullivan show and Ed had him stand up and take a bow. Also the premiere was shown on one of the local NY channels. I also remember Mayor Lindsey hosting the Funny Girl premiere on TV. I wonder when Streisand is in NY to see shows she remembers that night in Times Square where the Criterion once stood. She also cut the cake on its one year anniversary there.

 

[roxy1927]

' though I would still classify each as a fascinatingly uneven artistic failure'

I took that to mean by calling them artistic failures you didn't like them. Because I in no way consider those films in any way shape or form failures. I only wish we should have such films today. I enjoy them all enormously and Sweet Charity is far and away the best film Fosse ever made. Pace Cabaret fans. I love the obc and Jill Haworth and am not a fan of Liza's. Chacun a son gout.

 

[Noel Aguirre]

Paint Your Wagon has never worked for me.

It's just infested with the bloat and rot inexplicably affecting mid-sixties road show musicals in general. Some survived it.

My Fair Lady, The Music Man, West Side Story, Hello Dolly!, Fiddler on the Roof, Half a Sixpence, The Umbrellas of Cherbourg, Funny Girl, Mary Poppins, The Sound of Music...all good stuff - in some cases, great - actually.

More problematic with movies like Star!, Gypsy, Goodbye Mr. Chips, Bye-Bye Birdie, Can-Can, Oh What A Lovely War, Camelot, Oliver! and, Sweet Charity - though I would still classify each as a fascinatingly uneven artistic failure, rather than a grotesque implosion of the Hollywood hybrid musical as an art form.

For that, I turn to Paint Your Wagon, On A Clear Day You Can See Forever, Man of La Mancha, and, (choke!) the musical remake of Lost Horizon.

And which bucket would Finian’s Rainbow fall into? Isn’t that similar to PYW in that it’s a 1947 stage hit retrofitted for the revolutionary 60’s audience.
On another note I hope one day soon we’ll get Mr. Chips on at least Blu-ray. It’s long overdue and the print on TCM is not that great. I like O’Toole in it and Petula’s not bad either.
Lost Horizon deserves its own category! Do you think anyone will ever do it on stage? Lol

 

[roxy1927]

Well CCBB is pretty bad. I thought it was bad as a boy. Tried watching it recently and it's just as bad though Robert Helpmann is terrifying as he should be. You see he's having a great time as the childcatcher. And that got on stage so why not Horizon? The Things I will Not Miss with Hussey and Kellerman is a guilty pleasure. Not for the song which is good but Hermes Pan's staging. What happened to that very talented man? His talent simply vanished for that film. Watch the individual numbers on youtube. You can't believe how bad the staging is. I saw Bobby Van on Broadway in Nanette before and after he made the film. He was sensational both times. In the film he is embarrassing. I have no idea what happened.