7 Full Range speakers a bad thing?

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by John-Miles, Feb 22, 2008.

  1. John-Miles

    John-Miles Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2001
    Messages:
    1,210
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ok here is my problem, i want to eventually upgrade my speakers to all towers, is there any reason to avoid this? I really cant think of one except for the obvious cost benefit, as most movies use the fronts more heavily.

    However as a gamer and someone who still loves his surround audio, i can see obvious advantages to having ful range speakers all around.

    any comments?
     
  2. JohnRice

    JohnRice Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2000
    Messages:
    8,791
    Likes Received:
    201
    Real Name:
    John
    It's overkill and unnecessary, but that is no reason to completely discount the idea. The main reason, to me, is because there is virtually no way to get ideal placement of the surround speakers if they are towers. Surround speakers really need to be a few to several feet above ear level for optimum effect.
     
  3. John-Miles

    John-Miles Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2001
    Messages:
    1,210
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thats a very good point on the placement.

    but then i know my studio 60's have the speaker cones on the top half, the bottom half is mainly used for volume.

    I guess i should ahve mentioned that ive currently got Paradigm Studio 60's for my mains and i eventually want to get studio 100's for the mains and shift these to the rears
     
  4. Greg Kolinski

    Greg Kolinski Second Unit

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2002
    Messages:
    331
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am runnning all tower speakers ,and have no problems.I still set the crossover at 80hz though.
     
  5. Brandy S

    Brandy S Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2006
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    1
    Real Name:
    Brandy Storey
    Bass cancellation would be the greatest reason to not use full range speakers all around.
     
  6. chuckg

    chuckg Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2004
    Messages:
    917
    Likes Received:
    0
    Oh, sorry but I do so disagree. I think you should have full range speakers all around. And, you definitely shoud still do the 80 Hz crossover with all speakers set to small.

    If you don't have full range speakers in your surround set, you are seriously losing some great audio back there. I have exactly the same cabinets all the way round, and it is great. Just crank up Lord of The Rings if you need proof!

    If you have room for the tower speakers, then you also have room to raise them up a bit to get the correct height...just put a fancy column under them, or a table, or whatnot. You could build them into columns, or hang them on the wall. Whatever!
     
  7. John-Miles

    John-Miles Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2001
    Messages:
    1,210
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yeah Bass cancellation would be the biggest reason, but with the crossover set at 80, that should do the trick.

    question though if the crossover is set at 80, why set the speakers to small?
     
  8. Brandy S

    Brandy S Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2006
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    1
    Real Name:
    Brandy Storey
    Here's what I'm not understanding - what is your definition of "full range speaker", and why have one, then cut it off at 80Hz?
     
  9. John-Miles

    John-Miles Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2001
    Messages:
    1,210
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well by full range speaker i pretty much mean a tower speaker, ie anythign that has a woofer, midrange and tweeter, so no bookshelfs.

    for my specific instance i am thinking of using Paradigm Studio 60's for my sides and surrounds with studio 100's for the mains.

    Reference Models:Studio 60

    Reference Models:Studio 100
     
  10. Brandy S

    Brandy S Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2006
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    1
    Real Name:
    Brandy Storey
    The References are definately full range, no argument there. But why pay more for bass extension you aren't using (by crossing over at 80Hz)?
    The 40s or even the 20s have excellent extension, and would be easier to place in my opinion. Plus being a woman, they look nicer to me not having to put them on stands. I had a reference setup a few years back with 100 fronts, 40 surrounds hung on the side and rear walls, and the Studio CC (whatever the model # was back then!) with a PW2200 (Sub). I still have the PW, but traded in the rest. I honestly didn't notice much difference upgrading from 60 fronts to 100s, especially with a subwoofer, but I liked the way they looked. [​IMG]
     
  11. JohnRice

    JohnRice Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2000
    Messages:
    8,791
    Likes Received:
    201
    Real Name:
    John
    The problem with several of the arguments here is that "Tower" and "full range" are being used interchangeably.
     
  12. Brandy S

    Brandy S Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2006
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    1
    Real Name:
    Brandy Storey

    Can you expound on that please?
    Don't just leave us hanging in suspense!
     
  13. Robert Crawford

    Robert Crawford Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 1998
    Messages:
    29,224
    Likes Received:
    4,608
    Location:
    Michigan
    Real Name:
    Robert
    With my current speaker setup I have 100s as my main speakers with a 570 as my center and 20s as my four surround speakers with a pair of subwoofers in opposite corners. I'm very happy with that setup as it serves me well.





    Crawdaddy
     
  14. JeremyErwin

    JeremyErwin Producer

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2001
    Messages:
    3,219
    Likes Received:
    0
    There's a school of thought that says

    The goal, I think, is to have an essentially flat response between 20 Hz (or DC, if you're insane) and 20 KHz. The problem is that the subwoofer and "satellites" don't always mesh as smoothly as we would like, and there may be a hump, or trough located at the crossover point.

    In any case, the paradigm speakers are not full range. They have a -2dB point of 44 Hz-- low, but not subwoofer territory. Perhaps small with a crossover of 50--60 Hz?
     
  15. Patrick Hannon

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 1999
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    5
    Real Name:
    Patrick E Hannon
    I run full range speakers all around, except for a small centre rear speaker. The L/R speakers for front (Mirage OM-6) and rear (Acoustic Research AR-9) are good down to the 20 Hz range. The front centre consists of a Boston Acoustics VR-12 and a Mirage BPS-180 subwoofer. A Mirage BPS-400 subwoofer is used only for the LFE signals, all other channels are run full range. I find this arrangement to give a "full" and very "solid" sound, with bass effects (or pressure!) coming from all around.
    Many years ago, I had smaller bookshelf speakers in the rear, crossed over to the sub and when it was replaced with the full range AR-9's the sound quality and surround feeling improved dramatically. I seem to be able to localize bass sounds (may be the room...or me) so this setup gives me a more satisfying experience. To each his own, but it would not hurt to try it out and see if you like it, especially if you are upgrading the front speakers anyway!

    Cheers,
    P.E.H.
     
  16. JohnRice

    JohnRice Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2000
    Messages:
    8,791
    Likes Received:
    201
    Real Name:
    John
    Heh, OK. Basically, just because a speaker is in a large cabinet (floor standing) doesn't mean it is "full range" and just because a speaker is in a smaller cabinet doesn't mean it it isn't reasonably "full range".

    I definitely prescribe to the "double the -3dB point" theory, of setting the crossover to around double the point it really starts to fall off. A lot of processors let you do this effectively these days by allowing separate crossover points for each set of speakers. I admit there is a value to having all matching speakers, but there are a lot of problems associated with it as well, including the placement problems I already mentioned.

    In my particular case, my L/R speakers are very large, heavy and expensive. Basic financial factors would definitely prevent me from buying and using 5-7 identical ones (though I saw one HT published whith did), not to mention placement problems. Still, I guarantee the system is better than would be possible by using a lesser "tower" speaker all around, just to have "towers" all around. To each his and her own. Someone asked for feedback, I provided mine and anyone can disagree with it as they like.
     
  17. gene c

    gene c Producer

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2003
    Messages:
    5,842
    Likes Received:
    47
    Location:
    Bay area, Ca
    Real Name:
    Gene
    It does seem as though "full range" has always been used with quite a bit of latitude. I doubt there are many true full range speakers anyway and they would be impractical for most because of the already mentioned size and cost. I would think 5 (or 7) identical really good speakers, with the same x-over setting, and an even better sub would be the ideal way to go. On the other hand, for various reasons, I wound up with towers, a dedicated center and bookshelves for surrounds so who am I to say what others should do [​IMG] ? I'd love to hear something like the new Outlaw Audio L/C/R's set up that way, however.
     
  18. mayhem13

    mayhem13 Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    0
    The way i understand it, the optimium 5.1 or 7.1 system is all identical speakers for timbre matching is most desired. I don't think the frequency range of the speakers matters as long as it is capable of up to 20khz. As for placement, i think the reference standard is the high frequency driver at ear level regardless of the assigned speakers channel( sub excluded of course).
     
  19. Gabriel.H

    Gabriel.H Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    Messages:
    111
    Likes Received:
    0
    From what I understand "Full Range" speakers are determined by their frequency range, not their size. A set of tower speakers that has a frequency range of 45Hz-20KHz is not full range. Bookshelf speakers that can produce thunderous bass like that of a subwoofer in the 20Hz region and also is able to go as high as 20kHz or more would be considered "Full Range".
     
  20. John-Miles

    John-Miles Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2001
    Messages:
    1,210
    Likes Received:
    0

    well typically the ability to produce the low bass is a function of the volume of air displaced, and bookshelf speakers typically dont have the volume, but towers are more likely to. of course thats a generality but i think it is true for the most part.
     

Share This Page