What Exactluy is Coming Out of My Denon3803's Sub Out?

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by ScottCHI, Feb 22, 2004.

  1. ScottCHI

    ScottCHI Screenwriter

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    hi. new to this forum. looks like a great place to ask questions, so here i go!

    as the denon manual and website are not very informative, i'm wondering exactly how the bass mangement works on this receiver; particularly, how it works when playing non-DD/DTS signals, like 2-channel audio. is it different?

    if i have ALL my speakers set up as "small" and the receiver's crossover set as 80Hz, what is the nature, exactly, of both the low and high-pass filter, in that circumstance, when playing 5.1 digital audio versus 2-channel audio. i'm specifically wondering what is happening to the signal coming out of the sub output; is there a traditional 24db/octave low-pass filter or not and is the bass management the same with this setup whether 5.1 digital or 2-channel audio, or is there some difference in the sub out signal when playing 5.1 digital audio relative to 2-channel audio with this setup? the reason i'm asking this is because, if i follow the manufacturer's (deftech) instructions for my sub when using a receiver's bass management, and set the sub's crossover as high as it will go (150Hz), it doesn't really "sound" like the bass signal is "filtered" above 80Hz, when listening to 2-channel audio.

    now, what about when the front speakers are set up as "large", but the rest are set as "small"? i DO understand the utility and workings of the "LFE only vs. LFE+main" setting when listening to DD/DTS material, but what is the nature of the signal coming out of the receiver's sub out in that instance (fronts as "large") when listening to plain 2-channel audio? is it "unfiltered"?

    thanks in advance for your time!

    [​IMG]

    Denon3803
    KEF Q5 fronts
    KEF Q9c center
    KEF Q1 rears
    DefTech Prosub200TL
     
  2. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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  3. ScottCHI

    ScottCHI Screenwriter

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    yes, thanks, lewis. very useful for general information, and i DO understand bass management, generally. but i'm wondering specifically how this receiver does it, though, in these instances. the denon manual and website are woefully inadequate in their explanation.

    btw, what is that cylinder in the corner of your theater room?!?!?!?!?!?
     
  4. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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    The Denon does BM the same way as other receivers do.
    If you know how that works then there isn't much more to it. It's a passive dual 12" driver subwoofer.
     
  5. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    In dealing with stereo and such different receivers do things differently, that's for sure.

    Well, I got frustrated trying to get the damn PDF to download one page at a time, so I gave up, but If I recall the denon might have a s-direct type mode that bypasses bass management. In which case for stereo and such it will send fullrange to the sub, and you have to utilize the sub's crossover. Otherwise, it should cross things over, but you're degrading things with the A-D/D-A conversion. This is the way it is on my marantz, that should get you a start at finding where it deals with this in the manual. It's kinda confusing.
     
  6. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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    "Stereo" mode employs the same configuration as the MC didgital modes like DD DTS.
    The BM works in digital domain so analog signals will be converted to PCM digital prior to BM[Exception of "Pure Direct"].In "Direct","Pure Direct" modes Denon employs a "paralel" BM which directs full range signal to the mains,but in the mean time, it digitizes the signal below 80hz for the BM and send it to the sub output.However sub can be turned off completelly,with the sublevel trim.[It won't affect the rest of the modes]The slope remains at 4th order for the low pass signal all around,at least "on paper".
     
  7. ScottCHI

    ScottCHI Screenwriter

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    lewis, can you tell me where you got this info? and are you certain that that applies to the 3803? i'm under the impression that the bm is different on their higher-end receiver, like the 5803, than on the 3803.
     
  8. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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    From Denon,when they released the 3801,which I owned 2 years ago,the 3803 has "Pure Direct" and variable crossover points,and a newer version of Analog Devices DSP chip to handle BM duties,other then that thebasics are the same how it works. Other then the 6ch input's BM[which the 3803 don't have],it's exactly the same.
     
  9. ScottCHI

    ScottCHI Screenwriter

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    ok, thanks. i'm very happy with the ht performance i'm getting with this receiver, but i still haven't got my music dialed in as i'd like. i do not want to have to adjust the subs x-over, or change a bunch of settings, etc, everytime i want to switch between 5.1 movies and 2-channel music audio. until i can afford the dream system for my 2-channel music, i'll be using this system much, much more for music than ht.
     
  10. ScottCHI

    ScottCHI Screenwriter

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