Spider-Man: Far From Home (July 2, 2019) [ENDGAME SPOILERS ALLOWED!] (1 Viewer)

[Sean Bryan]

Anyway, I'll put this under spoiler tags just in case -- although I can't imagine why anyone would be reading page 11 of a Far From Home thread without having seen Endgame first.

Spoiler: Endgame

The new trailer referenced Iron Man's death multiple times, but not how the five-year time jump is working with regard to Peter's school. Did his entire class get snapped? We were talking a little bit about this last week, and I expected the trailer would shed some light on it. I guess we'll find out in July. Ignoring it does not seem like an option for the film.

Spoiler: “Endgame”

It seems like Peter’s core group of friends were all dusted in the Snap. I suspect they’ll have some peripheral friends that are now older and graduated because they lived those 5 years and there may be some new peers who were 5 grades behind but are now in Peter’s class.

But it looks like several of those core peers of his were dusted along with him. Just like all the Guardians (except for Rocket and Nebula) were and the original 6 Avengers were not.

I definitely do not see this being ignored.

Some thoughts on Quentin Beck/Mysterio (speculation based on knowledge of the character from the comics) and Endgame spoilers:

Spoiler: “Comics and Endgame”

Quentin Beck is a master illusionist, and basically a phoney (though still dangerous). I wouldn’t be surprised if some sort of involvement of the Multiverse in the movie is legit, but I think Quentin Beck may be bullshitting about being from another Universe.

And I think Peter will be suckered into his ruse even more so because he feels he needs a new mentor and wants there to be someone to step into the role of Iron Man in the world. I think some of the dialogue in the trailer isn’t about Peter stepping into the role of a new Iron Man but is about Peter thinking Beck should step into that role. Poor Peter’s in for a huge disappointment and betrayal.

 

[Malcolm R]

Anyway, I'll put this under spoiler tags just in case -- although I can't imagine why anyone would be reading page 11 of a Far From Home thread without having seen Endgame first.

Agreed. Once Endgame was released, I stopped reading this thread until I did see Endgame.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Given the nature of this movie, dealing directly with the fallout from Endgame, and serving as an "epilogue" for Phase 3 of the MCU, I would vote in favor of adding "ENDGAME SPOILERS ALLOWED" to the title of the thread.

But until that happens, I'll use spoiler tags to discuss Endgame.

Looks like a fun movie. I really like this take on "MJ", and that she figures out that Peter is Spider-Man.

It definitely saves a lot of bullshit where Peter lets her down because of his responsibilities as Spider-Man, but ends up just looking like a flake.

Between the Sam Raimi trilogy and Peter's dynamic with Liz in Homecoming, I feel like we've seen that drama played out enough.

Who doesn't know Peter is SM at this point? May knows, Ned knows, now MJ, and probably others I'm forgetting.

Probably Betty and Flash too, after that scene with Happy at the end of the trailer.

Anyway, I'll put this under spoiler tags just in case -- although I can't imagine why anyone would be reading page 11 of a Far From Home thread without having seen Endgame first.

Spoiler: Endgame

The new trailer referenced Iron Man's death multiple times, but not how the five-year time jump is working with regard to Peter's school. Did his entire class get snapped? We were talking a little bit about this last week, and I expected the trailer would shed some light on it. I guess we'll find out in July. Ignoring it does not seem like an option for the film.

Spoiler

Yeah, I'll be very disappointed if the world where everybody's been brought back is indistinguishable from the world pre-Snap. One of the exciting things about a shared universe is how the consequences of things in previous movies start to pile up, and a world that started very much like our own world becomes increasingly different over time. If post-Endgame 2023 in the MCU is more or less identical to real world 2019, that's a major missed opportunity for interesting worldbuilding.

It seems clear that Peter, Ned, MJ, Flash, and Betty all got snapped. Some of the other students from his high school, like Cindy (played by Tiffany Espensen in Homecoming and Infinity War) and Sally (played by Isabella Amara in Homecoming and Infinity War) and Tiny (played by Ethan Dizon) probably did not get snapped and are likely in college now.

I'm glad they're delving more into the multiverse theory of time travel. If Mysterio is from an Earth where the timeline got messed with much earlier, it could be completely different than the Earth in the main MCU timeline.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

It definitely saves a lot of bullshit where Peter lets her down because of his responsibilities as Spider-Man, but ends up just looking like a flake.

Between the Sam Raimi trilogy and Peter's dynamic with Liz in Homecoming, I feel like we've seen that drama played out enough.

This!

That's one of the reasons I couldn't fall in love with the Raimi films like everyone else did. It's just not dramatically interesting to have Peter flaking out over and over, MJ getting mad over and over, playing the same conversation again and again, when everything would be solved by one character just speaking the truth to the other. It got old very fast. It worked in the context of Homecoming, but I sincerely hope that isn't the single ongoing defining characteristic of a Spider-Man movie.

 

[Jake Lipson]

Given the nature of this movie, dealing directly with the fallout from Endgame, and serving as an "epilogue" for Phase 3 of the MCU, I would vote in favor of adding "ENDGAME SPOILERS ALLOWED" to the title of the thread.

I agree. That would make things a whole lot easier in future discussions.

 

[dpippel]

Given the nature of this movie, dealing directly with the fallout from Endgame, and serving as an "epilogue" for Phase 3 of the MCU, I would vote in favor of adding "ENDGAME SPOILERS ALLOWED" to the title of the thread.

I agree. That would make things a whole lot easier in future discussions.

Great idea guys! I just took care of it.

 

[Jake Lipson]

A friend of mine where I used to live, who always used to go with me to the Marvel movies, hasn't seen Endgame yet. I moved across the country in late 2016, so the last Marvel movie we saw together was Civil War (and even then, he didn't feel the urgency that I do to see them quickly.) I saw Civil War by myself on opening night and then went again with him a couple weeks later.

Despite my advising him to do so, he hasn't actually seen Endgame yet. He has cared less about seeing these quickly than he would have if I were still living there; I probably could have gotten him to go to the movie in the first two weekends if I were still living there to go with him. But I'm not, so I texted him this morning to warn him about the spoilers in the Endgame trailer. I described said spoiler as "the biggest spoiler in the movie." There could be a debate about whether Iron Man's death or the five-year time jump are bigger spoilers, but I wanted to emphasize the significance of not watching the trailer and obviously couldn't tell him anything further than that.

He texted back and said that it was "disrespectful" (presumably, to Endgame, or to people who haven't seen it yet) to include spoilers in Far From Home marketing. I was a little surprised when I heard they were going to do this so soon, since I thought the second trailer would be on Men in Black International next month. But then I thought about it. My friend is in the extreme minority of people who want to see Endgame but haven't done it yet; the enormous box office numbers prove how large of an audience Endgame has reached in a very short period.

I kind of feel like anyone who both has the means to go to a movie and wants to see Endgame should know that there are going to be big spoilers, and if they didn't go out and see it over the first two weekends, that's kind of their own fault if they end up being spoiled.

Of course, that doesn't mean I'm going to go blowing up my friend's phone with Endgame spoilers, but I do think it's fair for Sony to start their marketing push on Far From Home now. Fans should be used to the fact that the films build on each other, and it would be weird if Far From Home did not address fallout from Endgame. So if this is where we are, with Sony having to press on, then that's fine. Sony shouldn't have to hold the marketing for their movie hostage because of Disney's prioritizing Endgame.

I just watched the trailer again and focused in on Fury's line, "The snap tore a hole in our dimension." Which snap is he referring to? Since this is post-Endgame, there have been three snaps: Thanos' initial snap in Infinity War, Bruce's snap to bring back the dusted from Infinity War, and Tony's snap to dust Thanos' forces in the final battle. I'm not sure if it matters which snap it was, but that's kind of interesting to think about.

 

[Carabimero]

I kind of feel like anyone who both has the means to go to a movie and wants to see Endgame should know that there are going to be big spoilers, and if they didn't go out and see it over the first two weekends, that's kind of their own fault if they end up being spoiled.

I disagree. It's one thing to have it spoiled by the Internet or someone on the street. It happens. That's one thing. But I don't care how long it's been. I think a moviegoer, in a public theater for a first-release, has a reasonable expectation that something they are literally forced to see before the movie doesn't spoil the movie they are about to see.

 

[Jake Lipson]

I think a moviegoer, in a public theater for a first-release, has a reasonable expectation that something they are literally forced to see before the movie doesn't spoil the movie they are about to see.

That's different than what is happening here. I would agree with you if the Far From Home trailer was playing on the front of Endgame; that would be wholly inappropriate. But the Far From Home trailer is not playing on the front of Endgame. We're talking about a trailer which will likely screen in front of other big summer movies that come out after Endgame.

Obviously, the cleaner thing to do would be for Far From Home to be released next year, which is what Marvel wanted. But since it's Sony's movie, which Sony paid for and which they are marketing, they get to make the release date call.

The alternative, of course, would be for the Marvel/Sony deal to be dissolved and for Spider-Man not to appear in the MCU at all. I'll take the tradeoff of Endgame spoilers in Far From Home trailers that release after Endgame has already become the #2 highest-grossing film of all time, in order to maintain Spider-Man's presence in the MCU.

 

[Carabimero]

I still think it's wrong and, let's call it what it is--crass. They shouldn't spoil a movie IN THE SAME FRANCHISE less than two weeks into its run, and IMO not for two months or so.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Yes, but ultimately, I don’t think Far From Home should have been announced or released until after Endgame.

Because Far From Home was announced before even Infinity War was released, much less Endgame, we already knew going watching Infinity War that Spider-Man’s death wouldn’t stick, which in turn meant it was spoiled that the snap would be undone. And since it was announced that Downey wouldn’t be in Far From Home, even though the character relationships would have demanded it, we knew before Endgame was even released that Tony was going to die.

Far From Home spoiled a lot for me. I’m really unhappy with how Sony handled themselves.

Incidentally, Amy Pascal is now out at Sony, which makes it more likely that the Marvel-Sony partnership will continue.

 

[Jake Lipson]

IMO not for two months or so.

Well, then Sony couldn't really market Far From Home at all, because the release date is July 2.

This situation is a direct result of the release dates for Endgame and Far From Home being so close together. I can't fault Sony for wanting to market their movie. Maybe for putting the movie in July, but again, Sony's primary concern is their own movie, not something that Disney is doing. Sony owns the rights to Spider-Man. Sony paid for Far From Home and they are releasing it, and they have determined that they want to stick with the early July window which worked extremely well for Homecoming. Even though it would be cleaner for the MCU as a whole if Far From Home was coming out later, if I can't fault Sony for that business decision, because it is what is in the best interest of their movie. What is in the best interest of Endgame is not Sony's concern, because that's not their film.

This whole situation with the two studios sharing the character back and forth between their films is literally unprecedented in cinema history. If Sony insisting on a particular release date is the cost to pay for making that happen, I think it's worth it.

Yes, but ultimately, I don’t think Far From Home should have been announced or released until after Endgame.

We've already discussed in numerous threads, including probably this one, that I always felt the snap being reversed was never in doubt. I don't want to rehash that again so I won't.

But, in order for Sony to not announce or release Far From Home until after Endgame, they would have had to not start production until after Endgame. That would have delayed the film significantly, and it would be unreasonable for Disney to expect Sony to power down their most valuable franchise on account of something Disney was doing in a movie that Sony's not involved in. Even Disney's Marvel properties haven't completely ceased development in the wake of the Infinity War cliffhanger. We know Doctor Strange 2 and Black Panther 2 are being written. We know Guardians 3 was written and would have been shooting by now if the whole Twitter debacle hadn't gotten in the way. This is just a part of the reality of the way the business works. These movies do not live in a vacuum.

If development of all MCU properties had completely stopped over the course of the last year in between Infinity War and Endgame, there would have been a sizeable gap between the release of Endgame and any future films. I know some people on this board who are very upset that we now have to wait until probably at least 2022 for Guardians 3. You yourself have argued before how audiences don't really like to wait for long periods between new installments of favorite franchises anymore. Would you really prefer a long, possibly multi-year gap between Endgame and the release of the next film? Do you think that would actually have been good for the MCU? And do you think Disney or Sony, being primarily business-oriented, would have gone for that at all?

It's just not realistic.

Personally, I am still amazed that the custody-sharing agreement on Spider-Man even exists and that we get to have him in the Marvel universe at all. The rest of this is not ideal, but I'll take it as the price we have to pay for that deal existing. I'm happy to roll with that. The value of having Spider-Man in the MCU far exceeds the issues created by having Far From Home released in proximity to Endgame.

Incidentally, Amy Pascal is now out at Sony, which makes it more likely that the Marvel-Sony partnership will continue.

How do you figure that? Pascal has had a long-term working relationship with Kevin Feige, and was one of the major architects of the deal in the first place. With her gone (and with Sony having plenty of success outside of the MCU with Into the Spider-Verse and Venom), we don't really know how her replacement is going to feel about this whole shared-custody agreement.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Pascal had suggested many times during the Homecoming press tour that once the sequel (Far From Home) was completed, that she was not interested in continuing with the arrangement. She had also suggested in interviews that she felt movies like Venom were “MCU” related, which led to some awkward side glares from Feige in joint interviews. I wouldn’t be surprised if her intention had been to have Marvel reboot Spidey into something successful, so that she could then walk away from the deal while using that refreshed character in movies like Venom.

I’ve seen it suggested elsewhere (but with no evidence cited) that the absolutely incorrect “eight years later” title card in Homecoming was there at Pascal’s insistence, but I have no idea if it’s valid.

I think Pascal felt the need to put her mark on this after being demoted from studio head to producer. And I think with her out of the picture, Sony will care more about the stability of working with a proven partner like Marvel more than placating a disgraced former executive.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

But, in order for Sony to not announce or release Far From Home until after Endgame, they would have had to not start production until after Endgame.

That’s not true at all. They simply had to not announce it. There’s no reason why they couldn’t have started production with non-disclosure agreements as Marvel itself does. I’m pissed that the trades leaked news of things like Doctor Strange 2 but Marvel hasn’t confirmed anything on their Phase 4 films. You can have an idea if you look, but it’s not out there all neat and wrapped in a bow like the Far From Home announcements are. They could have done that just as easily with Far From Home.

I mean, when Amy Pascal in 2017 is, in the same interviews, talking about how the Downey-Holland relationship is central to the film, but at the same time saying they’re not allowed to use Downey in the next movie, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that Downey’s character isn’t going to be around then. Pascal repeatedly telegraphed far more than she had to.

 

[Wayne_j]

The most I could have seen SONY do is hold off on marketing for another week or two, any more than that and they would have been substantially handicapped. The Ruso Brothers probably announced that spoilers could be said in public because they knew that SONY was about to release this trailer.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

It gets back to my point - this movie shouldn’t be coming out at this exact moment. It could have easily been a Fall 2019 or 2020 release. Sony’s greed ruined some of the Endgame fun for me. No way around that.

 

[Wayne_j]

That’s not true at all. They simply had to not announce it. There’s no reason why they couldn’t have started production with non-disclosure agreements as Marvel itself does. I’m pissed that the trades leaked news of things like Doctor Strange 2 but Marvel hasn’t confirmed anything on their Phase 4 films. You can have an idea if you look, but it’s not out there all neat and wrapped in a bow like the Far From Home announcements are. They could have done that just as easily with Far From Home.

I mean, when Amy Pascal in 2017 is, in the same interviews, talking about how the Downey-Holland relationship is central to the film, but at the same time saying they’re not allowed to use Downey in the next movie, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that Downey’s character isn’t going to be around then. Pascal repeatedly telegraphed far more than she had to.

People would have noticed something was up if the entire Spider-Man cast was in the same city the studio was in for months at a time. It is completely improbable to keep a movie in production hidden. 10 Cloverfield Lane was hidden primarily because they just didn't tell anyone about the Cloverfield portion. It was announced as a completely different movie.

 

[Jake Lipson]

That’s not true at all. They simply had to not announce it. There’s no reason why they couldn’t have started production with non-disclosure agreements as Marvel itself does.

The trades would have picked it up. There is no way a Spider-Man movie could have gone all the way through casting and signing the writers and directors and started production without it being news.

I’m pissed that the trades leaked news of things like Doctor Strange 2 but Marvel hasn’t confirmed anything. They could have done that just as easily with Far From Home.

You mean that you're pissed that the trades did their jobs in covering entertainment news? That is literally their entire job. The news media is not beholden to adhere to a spoiler warning from Disney or Sony or anyone else. It's unrealistic to expect them not to cover it.

Also, it's completely unrealistic to expect that Peter Parker (or Doctor Strange or Black Panther or the Guardians of the Galaxy) would have stayed dead (at least, in a form that kept them un-useable for future projects) because of the snap. I'm sorry, that's just not how Hollywood works.

It gets back to my point - this movie shouldn’t be coming out at this exact moment. It could have easily been a Fall 2019 or 2020 release.

Again, Endgame is Disney's movie. Far From Home is Sony's movie, and Sony is prioritizing what is best for their business over what is best for Disney's business. I can't fault them for that at all, because this is, after all, show business.

The alternative would have been Sony and Marvel not partnering up on Spider-Man, and then he wouldn't be in the MCU at all.

Like I said before, I think the entertainment value created by having him there significantly outweighs the negatives surrounding the close release between these two films. Is it perfect? No. But I'll gladly take it over the alternative.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

That’s all fine.

What I’m saying, and what I wish you’d stop trying to take away from me, is that my enjoyment of Endgame was lessened as a direct result of Sony’s Far From Home decisions. I’m not saying that I seriously expected Sony to make a different choice. I’m saying it impacted my experience in ways that were not positive.

 

[DavidJ]

Oh, I agree. Seeking it out online is one thing. Seeing it in a theater before another movie -- say, Pikachu for example -- would be something else entirely. Although if you are going to the theater to see something else and haven't seen Endgame yet, then you probably don't care to see Endgame all that much at this point.

Or you have younger kids and other things going on.