Please voice oppinions on these two wires.

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Manuel Parrado, Aug 20, 2002.

  1. Manuel Parrado

    Manuel Parrado Stunt Coordinator

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  2. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    It's a wash...6 of one, 1/2 dozen of the other. If you're going to be ordering from whomever, sit back and give some thought to other things you might want to get such as banana plugs, spades, etc. so as to take advantage of the s/h. partsexpress is a pretty quick delivery.
     
  3. Manuel Parrado

    Manuel Parrado Stunt Coordinator

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    That's a good idea Chu.
    I was thinking about ordering from shoppingmatrix because they had a good deal on banana plugs, but I'm not so certain I want banana plugs anymore.
    I fear they may put something additional connection in the signal path that I may not need.
    I just hope this wires don't rust like the ones I had before from Home Depot.
    You can see the brown oxidation through the PVC insulation.

    Thanks
     
  4. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    you know I hear that more and more often with the Home Depot stuff which is starting to make me think that part of the problem might have to do with the particular store environment and may even be dependent upon location. I've got some Home Depot stuff that's a couple of years old laying around and don't have any visual issues with it, so who's to say exactly what's going on here. You'll find higher end stuff typically has opaque or translucent coverings so you can't see what's going on inside. Rust it's not...most likely slightly green which indicates it's copper chloride from reaction of the copper with some unpolymerized PVC. I'll be sending an email to Carol, who makes their wire to ask for some feedback on this. When I get something, i'll post the reply (if I get one!). Nonetheless, this is strictly a surface phenomenon...visually unappealing, but not a big thing.
     
  5. Stephen Hopkins

    Stephen Hopkins HW Reviewer
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    Shoppingmatrix.tv also has a great deal on Zennith 14 gauge in 25ft sections for $1.12. That works out to around $0.05 a foot.
    http://shop.store.yahoo.com/shopping...zenzea135.html
    That's what i'm currently using, and i can hear a difference over some unbranded 18 guage i was using. I also have the NXG bannana plugs from shoppingmatrix.tv and am happy with them, although my 18 gauge slipped out some, my 14 guage is held solid.
     
  6. Jeremy_Watson

    Jeremy_Watson Stunt Coordinator

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    Hope it is okay to get a little off topic, but I have a question that relates to some of these posts: how do you stick the wire into the banana plugs, what sort of fastening device is there?
     
  7. Manuel Parrado

    Manuel Parrado Stunt Coordinator

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    Chu: I'm not an electrical engineer, but I believe there is a suface component to electrical conductivity. At any rate, I feel uncomfortable with rusted wires. Please do post if you find out anything.

    Stephen: Thanks for the link. I'll probably be using 12ga. though, just in case (my surrounds will take about 25ft of wire or so). It's definetly likely you will see difference in going from 18 to 14 from what I've read around.

    Jeremy: from what I've seen, most banana plugs, have a set screw that fastens the wire to barrell of the plug.

    Thanks everyone.

    Manuel
     
  8. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    well it's puzzling and quite truthfully shouldn't happen. as far as a surface component I believe it only goes down a few microns and its effect would be no different than something like the tin that's place on wire...nonetheless, we shall find out!
     
  9. Manuel Parrado

    Manuel Parrado Stunt Coordinator

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    By the way, Chu:
    Do you think tinning the ends of the wires going into the binding posts would get in the way of good signal transfer?
    That could be an alterantive to seal off oxygen from the copper.
     
  10. Chris Tsutsui

    Chris Tsutsui Screenwriter

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    First off, I'm a believer that 12 gauge wire is 12 gauge wire so I'd choose the cheaper spool.
    If people are worried about Oxidation on the surface that shouldn't be considered an issue if you do the following:
    Solder or crimp banana plug or spade
    Or Tin the ends of the wires so they don't split or "oxidize"
    What I don't understand is why would people complain if the surface of the wire between the two connecting points turns green. The copper on the inside stays the same and there's enough copper in 3-5' of 12 gauge wire for 600 (12V) watts or 100 amps.
    I would be a bit considered if the connecting ends were green, but even then I could sand the surface and apply some solder on them, or just cut the wire and strip a new piece, or pay another $0.45 a foot on Home Depot Wire.
    I'm also tired of reading speaker wire advertisements like:
    "large copper conductor area for better power transfer and improved Dynamics. Special winding configuration for improved clarity and a more natural reproduction of the music. Wide dynamic range, improved low frequency signal performance, and improved clarity"
    They make it sound like the best upgrade in the world, but if any of you guys have ever A/B tested wire you'd probably find that the clothes you wear during listening makes a bigger impact on sound. (slight exaggeration) [​IMG]
     
  11. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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  12. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    well even tinnnig using a tin/lead solder oxidizes. myself, at the speakers I opt for a spade connection done with a good crimp followed by solder...at the amp end, bananas seem to work for me since they provide for a ready disconnection. you could also use pins to connect to the speakers also. nothing wrong with bare wire but then you start thinking about stray wires...shorts and i just don't like to think like that.
    Chris, I believe the green he's talking about is the wire where its covered by the pvc...oxidation would be a dark black/grey...the green is a result of copper chloride formation
     
  13. Manuel Parrado

    Manuel Parrado Stunt Coordinator

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    Well gentelemen, I'm not much of a believer of "great quality wires" myself. However, oxydation does make me think twice.
    I'll just grab the cheap Phoenix gold wire from shoppingmatrix.tv and bind it bare to the posts (or might decide to spend the exra $16 and get bananas).
    In another year I'll look at the wires and see if the've corroded and then just ignore the issue.

    Thanks a lot for the inputs, you've been very helpful.

    Regards,

    Manuel
     
  14. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    Dear Sir:
    The phenomenon you have described is normal with the Carol(R) 12 gauge speaker cable (P/N 1364) in that the copper will turn green over time. This is nothing to be concerned about as the audio performance will not be affected. If you prefer a cable with a less reactive jacket compound, I
    recommend Carol(R) C1463 which is slightly less flexible, but carries a UL CL2 rating for in-wall use.
    Regards,
    Alben Roland
    Engineering Team Leader
    General Cable Corporation
    4 Tesseneer Drive
    Highland Heights, KY 41076
    * Phone: 859.572.8754
    * Fax: 859.572.8447
    * E-mail: [email protected]
    -----Original Message-----
    From: ****
    Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 8:24 AM
    To: [email protected]
    Subject: Question Regarding the Carol Speaker Cable
    Several individuals I know have bought Carol 12 gauge copper speaker wire at HomeDepot. Several of these people have noticed that after a period of time, the wire that's beneath the PVC insulation has turned green presumably from
    the formation of Copper Chloride, perhaps from PVC degradation or unreacted monomer. Is this a normal phenomenon with the Carol wire or should this be looked upon as defective product? What can General Cable tell me about
    this?
     
  15. John Royster

    John Royster Screenwriter

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    GOD!

    Those guys need a few classes in EE and MSEE. Sorry, in my education oxidation is the enemy.

    -edit- they're both fine wires and for the price you can try'em both!
     
  16. Manuel Parrado

    Manuel Parrado Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks for digging into it, Chu.
    It does seem to me, however, that even if the audio quality would be affected, he would not be in a hurry to tell us.
    I'll probably just keep using it for another while, anyway or decide to dish out the $40 for the new one.

    Regards.
     

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