Onkyo TX-SR804 or Yamaha HTR-6090? (1 Viewer)

[Bo-Cephus]

Do folks have an opinion about which receiver they prefer (and why)? To me the features look very similar and priced very close. I have a B&W 600 S3 speaker setup, Yamaha sub, and the sources are Direct TV HD (H20), VCR (480i via composite)/DVD player recorder (480p via component), and a PS3. Since my current TV's max is only 1080i via component video I need two "stages" of upconversion, the first to upconvert/pass through to 1080i via component video and ultimately upconvert to 1080i and pass through 1080p via HDMI once I get a new TV with those capabilities. It looks like both receivers can handle the two stages of upconversion, so I guess that leaves the audio performance/features as the main points to consider. I see the differences in specs (i.e., more watts/channel for the Yamaha) but would like to hear from others. BTW I can't upgrade the TV yet - it still works too well to get spousal approval. Any advice/preferences? Thanks

 

[Nick:G]

First off, results vary whenever you upconvert video from an older player with a scaler. There's always a possibility that the picture might even look worse than it does sending 480p (it really depends on the TV).

Right now, there's really need to upconvert your player's video on your current TV (I'm assuming it's a CRT based on its 1080i max resolution). CRT TVs draw images by scanning lines, which is why DVDs will always look good. With digital-based TVs like flat panels and microdisplays, you're dealing with a totally different beast that has physical pixels that can't change sizes or positions. This is where "upconverting" DVD players started appearing - they interpolate resolution that doesn't exist in hopes to eliminate video artifacting on digital sets. "Macro-blocking" for example, is WAY more noticeable on a flat panel TV or microdisplay. This is where the quality of the scaler is very important. So the theory is to do all the scaling in the DVD player so the display's internal scaler doesn't have to do all the work. A lot of cases, the player's upscaler will improve the overall image, but in some cases it will not. It really depends on the display device...


Both receivers you're looking at are quite good. The specs on the Yamaha are little confusing in regards to whether it will actually upscale video from 480i all the way up to 1080p. It doesn't mention actually having a scaler chip for that. The Onkyo's specs clearly state the receiver will deinterlace 480i signals over HDMI, but won't upscale to 1080p. The Pioneer Elite VSX-84TXsi will actually do this because it's equipped with a Faroudja DCDi scaler. Of course, these things won't really matter with Blu-ray and HD-DVD players.

 

[Stephen Hopkins]

The only receiver that will scale video to 1080p is the $7000 Denon 5805MKII. None of the other Denon models will. None of the Onkyo, Yamaha, or Pioneer models will.

The Yamaha 6090 and V1700 will deinterlace 480i to 480p. The 2700 will also scale to 720p and 1080i.

The Onkyo SR604 and SR803 will not deinterlace or scale. The SR647 and SR804 will deinterlace to 480p.

The Pioneer 1016TX and Pioneer Elite 80TXv and 81TXv will not scale or deinterlace. The 82TXs and 84TXsi will deinterlace to 480p and scale to 720p and 1080i.

 

[Bo-Cephus]

Thanks Stephen, and I saw your recent response to another member re: the 6090 and it's (relatively) subpar overall build quality and it may only upconvert to 480p (not 1080i as I'd like). Given that, seems like the 804 nudges ahead a little. Or is the 804 similarly limited (doesn't seem like it is but what do I know?)?

 

[Bo-Cephus]

Thanks for this information. So you're saying my "first stage" of upconversion to 1080i via component video cable to my existing 55" CRT Mits will not be noticeable because it's not digital? If that is the case that's very helpful to me especially in the short term. Seems like I should focus more on the upconverting/upscaling features to HDMI when I get my next TV, and not so much of the upconversion features with my existing TV?. Please let me know if I'm following. Thanks again.

 

[Stephen Hopkins]

The SR804 still only deinterlaces to 480p, no scaling to 1080i or 720p. To get video scaling you're pretty much limited to the Elite 82TXs and 84TXsi. To get 1080p scaling you're going to need a Denon 5805MK2.

I may have not made it clear but the RX-V1700 and HTR-6090 are very well built... but looking at them you initially wouldn't think so. They're lower profile and not very deep (which are likely pluses to custom installers) but they're still solidly built... they just don't scream high-end when you look at them. The Elite models (atleast the 82TXs and 84TXsi) are tall, deep, and look and feel high end. It may be a nit-pick and the performance is paramount but it's still something to consider.

 

[ScottyH]

I have a Sony 60" SXRD Projection HDTV (KDS-60A2000 TV that i just purchased and an HD-A1. Now i need a better quality receiver to get a better picture. If im using all HDMI what receiver is going to get me the best picture possible under $1100? TIA

 

[Stephen Hopkins]

If you're using HDMI then the receiver isn't going to affect the picture quality at all. For 720p, 1080i, and 1080p the video signal is simply being passed on to the display. Most receivers in your price range (Onkyo 804, Denon 2807, Denon 3806, Yamaha RX-V1700, Pioneer Elite 82TXs) will upconvert 480i to 480p, so you may see some slight improvements in SDTV or other SD sources (non-HD TV, laserdisc, VHS, older video-games). The Pioneer Elite 82TXs will also scale those sources to 720p or 1080i... this won't neccesarily improve picture quality but could if it scales better than your display to its native resolution.

Depending on the receiver you have now you'll likely HEAR more of a difference than you'll see (compared to feeding your sources directly to your display). Let us know what you're currently using and what other features you're looking for and we can give some good reccomendations.

 

[ScottyH]

hey thanks a lot Stephen. my current equipment is a Sony 60" SXRD Projection HDTV (KDS-60A2000. Toshiba HD-A1 dvd player. my receiver is the one the came with my onkyo ht s790 HTIB. For speakers I have Ascend Acoustics 340SE's and 170's for all sorrounds. sub is VTF3 HO. I am kind of dissapointed because I was told the only way I'm going to get a 1080p res. on my tv is buy spendin a grand on a blue ray. which I'm not really fond of because I just bought this dvd player and I'm not going t spend $7000 on a denon 5805mkII. so I'm basically just looking for a receiver in $1100 budget that I won't have to replace in a year that will get me the best picture and sound for my money. Thanks again

 

[Stephen Hopkins]

Well, like I said before, no receiver (other than the 5805MKII) is going to improve picture quality (and the big Denon probably wouldn't even improve it much). Your best bet is feed 1080i over HDMI from the Toshiba (through any of these receivers if you need to switch HDMI) to your display. I'd say any of the current offerings, 82TXs, Denon 2807, Denon 3806, Onkyo SR804, Marantz SR7001, or Yamaha RX-V1700 would give you what you're looking for... which will do it best will require you to go out and do some comparissons and/or do some in-home comparissons.

 

[Dave H]

Do we know for sure if there is any degradation in image quality at all when connecting an HDMI cable from the display to the receiver instead of from the display to the source player (DVD, etc.)?