Serenity (2005) (2 Viewers)

[Sean*O]

I wouldn't write off a sequel until we see the DVD numbers come in. That is certainly the area where the TV series had it's greatest success, so I would watch for the movie to follow the same pattern.

As an aside, I wonder how many people were thrown off by the difference in titles? I can see some people possibly enjoying the movie, and then shopping around for a 'Serenity' TV series after hearing that the movie was based on an old TV show.

 

[Alex Spindler]

With regards to box-office, I agree that trying to put a spin on it is pointless. This kind of a return is fine for an art film, where the expectation isn't high and the release is relatively small. But with the advertising and number of screens, there isn't any way to twist this into anything but disappointment. I mean The Island was budgeted at $120m and grossed like $77m total. Nobody is going to spin that well, but the percentages are similar to Serenity.

The positives to be lauded are the high reviews it has been given. 81%/87% at RottenTomatoes, 74 at Metacritic are both real positives especially for a sci-fi film. Especially when an established franchise like Sith gets 82%/71% and a 68 at Metacritic. I, as a recent fan from pre-release Sci-Fi channel watching, would hope that the solid critical reception of the movie might be enough to gut check relaunch on the channel in the hopes it could find its footing.

Regarding The Transporter, it was a cheap european action franchise that stood in contrast to American action films. I mean, a $20m action flick is nothing when you consider that any domestic equivalent would have cost twice as much. The sequel's performance bears out their good choice.

And to further get this thing back on track--the sound design hasn't really been mentioned yet anywhere in this thread, I don't think. Not just the fact there's silence in space, but when there IS noise, it's pretty damned good. I can't wait to throw the atmo battle into the DVD player this December, to see how the initial cannon blast before leaving the cloud rumbles the movie room.

I actually wish they hadn't decided to surround Mr. Universe's area with sound conducting gases because it would have been absolutely amazing to see that battle in the cold silence of space with exception of in-cockpit shots rattling the walls. I was watching Robot Jox and they had a sequence where the two giant robots take to space and one fires a missle at the other. The entire thing has no other sound in space than the musical score and it works fantastically. I think if the battle had had little more than the sounds of a well written score, it'd have been an indelible trademark further distancing itself from Star Wars. I must not have been the only fan who had to draw comparisons to ROTS's opening for similar reasons.

 

[Rutgar]

This "Fan superiority" tack you're taking sucks, Rutgar. I can like the movie and still be realistic about its money take. It won't be the first movie I've owned on DVD that did shit business at the box office. Doesn't lessen my enjoyment of it. I like the show, I spent my money on the set, I bought tickets to the movie (note the plural) and I told a lot of people about how good it is. Me posting on Home Theater Forum about how the numbers aren't good in spite of all that isn't causing the movie to fail, and on the flip, you trying to massage these bad numbers to look like it's something decent and then openly challenging people to prove you wrong isn't making the movie succeed. Don't get all exclusionary on me like I don't deserve to like the movie and the show, because that's asinine.

Man, you're sensitive. I only calls them like I see them.

 

[Robert Anthony]

There wasn't anything sensitive about that post. If you're calling em how you see em I suggest lasik surgery

 

[Zack Gibbs]

Man, you're sensitive. I only calls them like I see them.

Not to pick on you personally, but that's such a lame defense. I know a couple of people who just use this every time they're in a conversational corner, and it just gets on my nerves a little.

No one here has been negative towards the movie. The FACT that it's doing poorly at the box office and that some posters here can deal with that without lying to ourselves and hyping it up to be more than it is doesn't in any way make us less supportive of the film.

 

[Eddy-C]

Brazil, Argentina, Taiwan, and Thailand have decided not to show Serenity. It'll be going straight to dvd there.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

You guys claim to be fans of the show and film, yet you're so pessimistic about the whole thing that it makes me wonder. Will Serenity eventually make enough money to warrant a sequel? I don't know. But with "fans" like you spouting all of your negativity, the show wouldn't stand a chance.

Wow, I didn't realize there was a list of membership requirements to be a fan without the quotation marks. I watched "Train Job" when it premiered on Fox and never missed a subsequent episode in its first airing. Bought the DVDs, shared them with my mom, my friends, and my friends' families. Saw Serenity at an advanced screening then paid to take my mom to see it when I was home visiting for Columbus Day. I've been here from the beginning right until the present.
But I guess because Robert, myself, and others have been realistic about the box office numbers we're not real fans.God knows I'd like to take a twirl around the 'verse a few more times. But I'm not going to disillusion myself about the likelihood of it. I guess that makes me whatever you want to call me.

 

[Will_B]

I don't know how realistic the pessimism is, though. Some people like to have a defeatest attitude so they won't be disapointed later - but not everyone shares that method. Serenity's performance has not automatically ensured sequels (the "$80 million will ensure sequels" guidance given to Whedon). But whether there may be sequels or not based on whatever it ultimately makes is an entirely different question, one that can only be answered by the very producers and financiers who we have no way of predicting the interests of.

Surely there have been many similarly low budget films ($39 mil is still thought of as low budget, right?) made that have continued with similarly low budgeted sequels, without the kind of talent or critical acclaim that Joss Whedon has. That talent, plus the anticipated DVD income - which is usually what, four times the box office (80% of the total)? - may very well mean some sequels. It simply isn't assured, leaving us with a big question.

 

[Rutgar]

Wow, I didn't realize there was a list of membership requirements to be a fan without the quotation marks. I watched "Train Job" when it premiered on Fox and never missed a subsequent episode in its first airing. Bought the DVDs, shared them with my mom, my friends, and my friends' families. Saw Serenity at an advanced screening then paid to take my mom to see it when I was home visiting for Columbus Day. I've been here from the beginning right until the present.

But I guess because Robert, myself, and others have been realistic about the box office numbers we're not real fans. God knows I'd like to take a twirl around the 'verse a few more times. But I'm not going to disillusion myself about the likelihood of it. I guess that makes me whatever you want to call me.

Good Grief! Adam, I wasn't talking about you, or to you. Nor did I call you, or anyone else "names". I was addressing two posters specifically for ganging up on "Phil", and misrepresenting what he said. Frankly, if anyone in this thread is going overboard, it's the one's who insist on harping on nothing but the low BO numbers. Acknowleging the low turnout is one thing. Pounding it runduntantly into the ground is simply getting old. All I've basically ever said is that it's still a little early to be counting a sequel out, and that at this point no one knows what the future of the francise will be. Even Adam Baldwin said this himself when I saw him last Sunday.

 

[Chuck Mayer]

I'll make this simple. There is NO CHANCE a Serenity will see the inside of a movie theater. None, there is no way to spin the numbers that hard. It is not comparable to The Transporter, even if the numbers were similar (they are not). It was expected to make more money.
And it will MAKE money...on DVD. But they will not make another film and strike prints for another bomb in theaters. You MIGHT see some DTDVD sequels. They would not be directed by Whedon. That is a distinct possibility.
As we've discussed, the marketing on the film was horrible. It did not sell the movie being made, to the audience that needed or wanted to know about it.
If me being realistic about Box Office, something we have done here for years and years makes me not a "fan", then I don't want to be a "fan". Not if being as fan means insulting others for being honest or being unrealistic about the financial facts of the situation. Fortunately, elitist fans don't get to decide who is a fan and who isn't. Neither does the cast, crew, or writer/director. We get to decide if we are fans.
Give me a break,
Chuck

 

[Will_B]

I'll make this simple. There is NO CHANCE a Serenity will see the inside of a movie theater. None,

It's that kind of arrogance that is inflaming this thread. Why would you even post such an assertion after complaints that this thread is becoming too heated?

Though I personally agree that direct-to-DVD sequels are much, much more likely now, I won't ignore the fact that dud films like The Prophecy turned out not one but two theatrical - yes, they played in theatres! - sequels. And Pitch Black spawned Chronicles of Riddick, and there's probably many more examples of small films that had only a fair chance of having sequels - and DID. "NO CHANCE" be damned.

 

[Zack Gibbs]

It's funny, if you were to go back through this topic and delete all the posts that pretend Serenity is a Box Office Hit (and posts responding to them), All that negativity seems to have disappeared.

You know, sometimes the hardest thing to do in life is when you have to take a long look in a mirror, and realize you've become the monster you hate so much. And when you can't scrape the oil-encrusted mud from your eyes, and see yourself for what you truly are, well that's where begins the enemy of peace and freedom.

 

[Robert Anthony]

I was addressing two posters specifically for ganging up on "Phil", and misrepresenting what he said. Frankly, if anyone in this thread is going overboard, it's the one's who insist on harping on nothing but the low BO numbers.

1. Phil was doing fine on his own, and notice how we managed to pleasantly exchange opinions on the film afterwards? Notice your utter failure to do that? Phil didn't need your help.
2. No one misrepresented what Phil said, and it appears Phil didn't have a problem with it. I seriously doubt he thought I and anyone else was "Ganging up" on him.
3. I'm not harping on anything. Although I appreciate that you actually answered Adam somewhat thoroughly as opposed to falling back on that "sensitive" crap you pulled on me.
Again, if you're calling em as you see em, take a trip to Binyon's.
Now, I'm gonna go sweep off my back patio, put on "Out of Gas" and turn on the commentary. I'll be back in a li'l bit

 

[Chuck Mayer]

Edit: Already covered by other posters.

Pitch Black did spawn CoR. Which lost money at the theater. Joss Whedon sold Firefly, and the DVD sales made Uni feel good about their choice. Serenity *IS* Chronicles of Riddick...not Pitch Black. It *IS* the second chance.

The thread got heated because some people got angry over reasonable discussions about BO, and insinuated other members having those discussions weren't fans, all evidence to the contrary.

Take care,

Chuck

 

[Eddy-C]

Germany and Greece are apparently pulling out.

 

[Robert Ringwald]

With regards to box-office, I agree that trying to put a spin on it is pointless. This kind of a return is fine for an art film, where the expectation isn't high and the release is relatively small. But with the advertising and number of screens, there isn't any way to twist this into anything but disappointment. I mean The Island was budgeted at $120m and grossed like $77m total. Nobody is going to spin that well, but the percentages are similar to Serenity.

The ISLAND has actually made a fairly good profit overseas. The point is MOVIES ARE NO LONGER CONSIDERED A SUCCESS BASED ON DOMESTIC TOTAL ALONE.

The Island - US GROSS 35.8 million.

The Island - OVERSEAS GROSS 124.6 million.

All the talk about what a failure the film was caused the studio to question if it really was or not.

A movie is considered a profit based on a number of factors, including budget and marketing costs. For a movie that cost 39 million to make 25 million might seem like a bomb... but considering the film hasn't yet opened in a number of overseas markets (and the plan is to open in MANY up until January 2006) there's really not an accurate way to consider this film to be a FLOP.

Now did it perform under expectations? Possibly. But then again, the extremely positive word of mouth could very well be a major factor in later success. The DVD sales will likely be very good (a film like this always sells great on DVD).

I'm a decent fan. I attended a preview screening, I've seen the movie 3 more times, brought friends, saw the FOX airings, bought the DVDs. I'm content if this is it for the series because it was an amazing film and really did a great job of providing closure and giving us 2+ hours of an amazing experience. I'm not, however, 100% sure that the series is completely over. Universal is taking a lot of factors into account right now. The movie has done OKAY (not great) for a movie with no actors, geek appeal, some meh marketing, and the knowledge that it was based on a cancelled sci-fi series.

If anything, I'd bet a sequel would make more money. Look at the Resident Evil films... Horror sequels usually make half the total box office of the original. Part 2 made 27 million more than the original in total box office. Not to mention the DVD sales.

The landscape of films is changing. BECAUSE of the recent trend of losses in theaters studios are looking at a lot of these releases as ADS for the future DVD release.

Universal did Serenity as a way to woo Whedon over and intice him with more projects. If it got to the point where he was interested in another sequel I have a feeling they'd go ahead with it.

I just think there's no point in saying "We made it to 80 million worldwide!!! Sequel will happen!" or "We didn't... NO CHANCE IN HELL."

Either way... WE DON'T KNOW. There's no way to tell the future of the franchise... so why bother? Don't forget that the fact that this movie was even made in the first place shocked a lot of people.

Is Serenity a disappointment? Yes, in US grosses.

Is Serenity a failure? No.

Now, back to the topic at hand... I feel the film was deeply missing a lot of naked shots of the crew performing their duties...

Where's the naked Wash piloting? The naked Zoe bathing... that naked Mal Maling, naked Kaylee fixing the compression coil thing...

 

[ThomasC]

Who knows? Whedon, a cast member, or a hardcore fan will win the lottery and the studio doesn't need to finance the sequel.

 

[Malcolm R]

Funny, I was thinking the other day what I'd do if I won all that Powerball money...and financing another "Firefly" movie was on my list of possibilities.
But I didn't win.

 

[Robert Anthony]

..I actually sorta thought the same thing after buying tickets last week. I was like "What the hell am I REALLY going to do with a 110 million?" because realistically, even if I DO splurge and get the house I want perfectly--I still have like, 118 million left, and then what. And then I started thinking about movies. And then I thought "hey...Serenity..." but then my selfish nature kicked in and I said "hey...I could make my OWN movie."
But the thought DID cross my mind

 

[Chuck Mayer]

Is Serenity a failure? No.

None of us think it is. I think it's a fine adventure film, with good performances, great action scenes, and a lot of fun. Universal will make money on it. Once it hits DVD. They might roll the dice again...but not in the theater. I'd love to be wrong. I just don't think I am. And no fan is that hardcore Once they win $80M, they won't give a rat's ass about Serenity again.
Take care,
Chuck