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Need DVDAudio but no progressive!


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#1 of 32 OFFLINE   Dan Joy

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Posted December 01 2002 - 03:44 AM

I have a three 3year old Sony KV35V65 direct view tv which I love. I also have a Sony 222ES teamed up with my DA5ES. That leaves one 5.1 analog slot open. My Toshiba 2710 dvd player is starting to hiccup on almost all rental dvds so I will move that to the bedroom. I will not buy an HDTV until I am forced to because I have a HUGE entertainment armoire that holds all my equipment nicely.
It seems that most if not all dvd players that have DVDA also have progressive. This is probably a 3 year patch until I get an HDTV and a prog dvd player.
Thanks
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#2 of 32 OFFLINE   KeithH

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Posted December 01 2002 - 04:55 AM

Dan, note that any progressive-scan DVD player can output an interlaced signal, so don't feel as though you are shut out by progressive-scan models. Most players have an interlaced/progressive-scan switch on the back panel, though some may have the featured accessible via an on-screen menu.

Also, many progressive-scan DVD players are inexpensive these days, so you needn't spend a lot for a feature that you won't use. While you could buy the Denon DVD-9000 progressive-scan DVD-Audio player for $3500 or the Denon '3800 for $1200, you could buy the Panasonic DVD-RP82 for $230 or less, as an example. If you are looking for a budget player, consider the 'RP82 or the Panasonic 'CP72. The 'RP82 is a single-disc unit, while the 'CP72 is a carousel changer. See www.crutchfield.com for more information on these models. Note that you should be able to get better prices on these players through OneCall (1-800-340-4770) or J&R Music World (1-800-221-8180). Also note that Panasonic currently has a $30 rebate on the 'CP72. If you call one of the aforementioned mail-order dealers, be sure to ask about the rebate. Alternatively, check www.onecall.com , www.jandr.com , or www.panasonic.com , as you may be able to download a pdf version of the rebate form.

Another budget player to consider is the Pioneer DV-656A, which also includes progressive-scan output. You should be able to find it for $200 or less. Finally, if you can spend $500, check out the Denon DVD-1600. It gets very high marks for both its audio and video performance. A drawback of the '1600, in my opinion, is that it is lacking in the build quality department for a $500 player. It also lacks a coaxial digital output.
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#3 of 32 OFFLINE   Dan Joy

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Posted December 01 2002 - 05:08 AM

Thanks Keith,

Quote:
Dan, note that any progressive-scan DVD player can output an interlaced signal, so don't feel as though you are shut out by progressive-scan models. Most players have an interlaced/progressive-scan switch on the back panel, though some may have the featured accessible via an on-screen menu.


Too bad I can't order a dvd player a'lacartePosted Image I do realize that most, if not all DVDA will come with progressive scan. The RP-82 is getting heavy consideration but I wonder how much more dependable it will be(not that my Tosh could be considered dependable after 1 year).
The RP-72 will not help me seeing that I have the 222ES changer. The Denon is attractive, but I may wait and bite the big bullet when I purchase a HDTV.
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#4 of 32 OFFLINE   Brian Lawrence

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Posted December 01 2002 - 05:16 AM

The Panasonic RP-82 has a great picture on my standard 4:3 32" Sony. And it handles scratched rental discs quite well.

#5 of 32 OFFLINE   Justin Lane

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Posted December 01 2002 - 04:22 PM

http://www.6ave.com/....jsp?x=DVDRA60S

Check out the Panasonic RA60 from 6ave. I picked one up there about a few months ago for $117 and it appears they still have some available on closeout. This is an interlaced only player. Performance both audio and video wise have been excellent. This player also has an audio only mode for switching off video circuitry when listening to DVD-A. Excellent was to get into DVD-A on the cheap.

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#6 of 32 OFFLINE   KeithH

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Posted December 01 2002 - 10:39 PM

Justin,

Good call. I forgot about the 'RA60 through 6th Avenue. The build quality on that player isn't bad either, especially for just $117.


Dan,

Yeah, a la carte would be nice. Posted Image Still, you don't have to spend an arm and a leg for a progressive-scan player these days. Do look at the 'RA60 that Justin mentioned, as it is very cheap and is an interlaced player.
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#7 of 32 OFFLINE   Brian Ruth

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Posted December 02 2002 - 12:32 AM

I think the Toshiba SD-4800, despite the progressive scan, might be inexpensive enough for your needs. It can be found for about $200 retail (less on sale), and it might turn out to be a competent enough player to last you until after you get a new TV. Its actually the player I intend to get for my 27" HDTV.

Something to weigh against the Panny, especially since the Toshiba is still commercially available.

Sidenote - how prudent is it for people to wait on Progressive Scan DVD players? My coworkers give me the impression that there will be a better batch of players out within 6 to 12 months, so if anyone is planning on getting a HD beyond that window, its usually more prudent for them to wait and get a Prog-scan DVD player along with their HDTV. Is this good advice?
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#8 of 32 OFFLINE   Dan Joy

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Posted December 02 2002 - 12:44 AM

Quote:
Check out the Panasonic RA60 from 6ave. I picked one up there about a few months ago for $117 and it appears they still have some available on closeout. This is an interlaced only player. Performance both audio and video wise have been excellent. This player also has an audio only mode for switching off video circuitry when listening to DVD-A. Excellent was to get into DVD-A on the cheap.


Thanks Justin. I just hope the build quality of the RA60 will be better than the Toshiba 2710 I have.
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#9 of 32 OFFLINE   Bryce Miner

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Posted December 02 2002 - 02:22 AM

I second the RA60 by panasonic.

#10 of 32 OFFLINE   KeithH

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Posted December 02 2002 - 02:11 PM

Brian, progressive-scan technology has been improving steadily over the past couple of years, and it could very well continue to improve. For one thing, the chroma bug is still prevalent among current players, so perhaps it will become extinct in time. So, if one does not have the need for progressive-scan output now, it would probably be better to wait until an HDTV is in hand. On the other hand, if one does not have an HDTV but needs a DVD player now, progressive-scan output comes cheap and does not have to be utilized (i.e., the player can be used in interlaced mode). You could get a progressive-scan player for $200 now and use it interlaced mode and then buy a better progressive-scan player on the cheap after getting an HDTV, assuming a significant period of time had passed.
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#11 of 32 OFFLINE   Anthony Monaco

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Posted December 03 2002 - 12:48 AM

Great thread, just to add my 2 cents. There apparantly is a problem with the Panasonic RP-82 & SOME Warner DVD-A's (the new ones like Yes-Fragile) that Ive been reading about oin some other sites. You may want to hold off on the first generation of that particular machine.

#12 of 32 OFFLINE   RobertSchaez

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Posted December 03 2002 - 02:59 AM

Dan,
If you don't mind buying used, check out the Technics DVD-A10 on Ebay from time to time. I didn't see one now, but keep checking, I'm sure the price would be well within your budget. I bought mine NIB a year ago at the GoodGuys for $300.00 and have had no problems. They are built very solidly and should last way past the time you upgrade to HDTV and go progressive scan.
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#13 of 32 OFFLINE   CraigF

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Posted December 03 2002 - 10:01 AM

Quote:
Great thread, just to add my 2 cents. There apparantly is a problem with the Panasonic RP-82 & SOME Warner DVD-A's (the new ones like Yes-Fragile) that Ive been reading about oin some other sites. You may want to hold off on the first generation of that particular machine.


Yes, and the RA60 is also reported to have the same problem, along with the RA71 and stock RP91. They do not play the *high resolution surround* tracks on newer Warner releases. I can definitely claim that two firmware versions of the RP82 do not properly play most of the Warner DVD-A's I have purchased since August. Warner is the BIG DVD-A release label for now. If you specifically want to play NEW DVD-A's, you may want to consider another brand for now, or wait for a fix. Some new Yamaha's also have this problem. The RP82 has fantastic video in component progressive or interlaced.

#14 of 32 OFFLINE   KeithH

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Posted December 03 2002 - 10:24 AM

I had no idea there was a compatibility problem involving some Warner DVD-Audio discs and newer Panasonic DVD-Audio players. That is particularly disappointed. I wonder why it is the newer Warner discs that cause the problem and not the older ones. I suppose there was a change in the authoring procedure. Hopefully this problem does not extend to my first-generation Technics DVD-A10, which is also a Matsushita product. Does anyone know if the 'A10 is affected? Also, does anyone have a list of discs that cause the problem? I haven't any problems with my discs on the 'A10, but I wouldn't say that I have any "newer" Warner discs.


Robert,

I've had my 'A10 since February 2001 and have been very happy with it. It was a bargain for the $380 I paid. Hopefully it doesn't suffer from the playback problem like the newer players.
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#15 of 32 OFFLINE   CraigF

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Posted December 03 2002 - 10:42 AM

Either of the Warner Yes releases, or Linkin Park "Re-animation" are reliably reported to not work right in the RP91 with original firmware. There are others. I have the Linkin Park and Fragile ones myself, and they don't play properly in the RP82.

It was very confusing a few months ago when I bought my first DVD-A's for my new RP82. I didn't know what was going on, nobody could help me, specifically the estimable John Kotches. The discs worked right for him in his Toshiba, so what could he say? Now we know, this is coming out as more people try DVD-A with their DVD players. Actually, there are more DVD-A issues with the RP82 than I am saying, just trying to keep it simple for now. My equipment is set up properly BTW...

Others have reported problems with Warner DVD-A's with Panny players even before the discs mentioned above were released. I had problems with some, but returned them all as defective because I didn't know any better.

It is indicative of how DVD-A is going that so few people have reported problems with Panny players, and even now there is little info. Course, has a lot to do with the new discs too. I hate to say this (well, not too much), but if you have a Panny or Yamaha player go and get the Yes Fragile DVD-A, has some music that probably most won't find too "weird". Try it out, so then you'll know. If it doesn't work, return it, chances are the store won't even have a DVD-A player to test it, so worse that should happen is you'll get a credit, if not a refund. P.S. It's not 192/24 stereo as stated on the cover, just 96/24 stereo.

#16 of 32 OFFLINE   KeithH

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Posted December 03 2002 - 11:01 AM

Craig, thanks for the information. That's very frustrating. Posted Image
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#17 of 32 OFFLINE   Doug_B

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Posted December 03 2002 - 11:26 AM

How does this Warner DVD-A problem manifest itself on the players that have a problem? Are there some menu items/screens that are simply inaccessible, does the music simply not play when a hi rez track is selected, or something else? Another way of asking, is it obvious that there is a problem, especially if one doesn't know for sure what resolutions to expect on a given disk (since the packaging is often unreliable)?

Thanks.

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#18 of 32 OFFLINE   CraigF

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Posted December 03 2002 - 11:57 AM

The main issue is that the hi-res surround mix cannot be accessed, via any method. Normally, the high-res surround mix should play automatically when inserting a DVD-A with one into a DVD-A player. At the least, if that doesn't work, you should be able to choose it from the video menu or via the remote.

I am hoping that if people talk about this, then somebody will do something. So far, so few people have mentioned issues, that neither the manufacturers of the players or discs have officially admitted a problem. Even when it obviously undeniably exists, and is not even a very new problem, just hasn't been broadcast. Since some brands of "old" players can play these newer discs properly, I personally don't think the problem is truly the authoring or formatting of the Warner discs, even though it is apparently a bit "different".

I am not in marketing, but it seems to me the problem should be remedied ASAP. It is getting towards Christmas, big sales expected of DVD players and discs, I can see why nobody might want to say anything now. But it will only get worse if they wait, more customers who will require a remedy when they find out. I suppose they're hoping customers don't find out, sort of like those "silent recalls" the auto industry has??

#19 of 32 OFFLINE   Dan Joy

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Posted December 03 2002 - 03:09 PM

Wow, I think I will just wait and enjoy my SACD player. I really do't want to drop 500.00 on the Denon 1600. I guess I will put up with my toshiba and wait till all this dust settles on DVDAPosted Image
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#20 of 32 OFFLINE   Doug_B

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Posted December 03 2002 - 03:17 PM

Is there typically only one high res surround mix on a DVD-A disk? For example, if I can access a mix that my player says is 24/96, and this is the only surround mix listed on the menu, am I guaranteed that there is no 24/192 surround mix (if such a high sampling rate exists for surround mixes)? Do I need to look at the folders/files in a DVD-ROM drive to positively tell what's there?

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