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Goodbye 3802, Hello Elite


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118 replies to this topic

#1 of 119 OFFLINE   DevinT

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Posted September 11 2002 - 02:27 PM

Today I traded my beloved 3802 in at Ultimate Electronics for a brand new Pioneer vsx-45tx Elite. Once again Ultimate was great and sold it to me for $829. I also decided to go with the DV-45A Elite DVD player.
First impressions are that it is very pleasing to the eye and quite heavy. It took a little while to set up, but when I popped in Pearl Harbor I was very impressed. I heard sounds out of my rears that I never knew existed with the 3802. Japanese zeros appeared to be coming at me from all angles. The processing seems to be a pretty big step up from my Denon. I still need to use the MCACC and fine tune everything. But so far I would take the Elite over the Denon hands down.

#2 of 119 OFFLINE   RichardMA

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Posted September 11 2002 - 05:11 PM

Quote:
The processing seems to be a pretty big step up from my Denon. I still need to use the MCACC and fine tune everything. But so far I would take the Elite over the Denon hands down.


Anyone know if the Denon and Pioneer use the same
DSP engines to do this processing?

#3 of 119 OFFLINE   Kevin C Brown

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Posted September 11 2002 - 06:47 PM

Denon uses Analog Device Sharc's in the 3802, I don't know what Pioneer uses...
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#4 of 119 OFFLINE   Charles M

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Posted September 12 2002 - 05:55 AM

I believe the Pioneer uses two Motorola chips.
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#5 of 119 OFFLINE   Bryan Acevedo

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Posted September 12 2002 - 09:23 AM

Does the elite model you got even compare to the 3802. Wouldn't it be better to compare it to a 4802 or higher? I understand the elite may be better, but it is most likely in a higher class as well. You may have heard these improvements with a 4802, too.

Bryan
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#6 of 119 OFFLINE   Stephen Hopkins

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Posted September 12 2002 - 09:50 AM

The 45TX is alot closer in price to the 3802 than the 4802. The list for the 45TX is $1400, and the actual retail price is around $1200 i think. It can be had online for around $900 also, i think. The 3802 retail price is still around $1000, and around $700-800 online. The retail price on the 4802 is $2500, and the lowest online price is $1600.

As for performance, it may be on par with the 4802. I've AB'ed a 43TX at hifi buys against a 2802, 3802, and a Pioneer VSX-41 (for comparisson to my VSX-D811S, same receiver, different front face). The 43TX sounded extremely better than the 41 and 2802, and a decent amount better than the 3802 to me.

The 43TX front soundstage was MUCH wider and more open than the 41, and noticably more open than the 2802 and 3802. The 43TX had a fuller sound than the others. It was also more discrete. The 41 (and my 811S i guess) had a soundstage that seemed to be confined to the area right in front of the center speaker. The 2802 and 3802 were not as bad as the 41, but the improvement in this area from the 43TX was still very noticable.

The demoing was done on Klipch Synergy mains and center, and klipch reference surrounds.

The only differences in the 43TX and the 45TX are the remote, and the 45TX has Automatic Multichannel Calibration.

#7 of 119 OFFLINE   Bryan Acevedo

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Posted September 12 2002 - 01:01 PM

I guess it is more inline with the 3802 then. Looks like Pioneer may have a winner.

Bryan
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#8 of 119 OFFLINE   DevinT

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Posted September 12 2002 - 05:39 PM

The 45tx is surely in the same price range as the 3802. I talked ultimate down to 830 on the price. Hard to beat that with the store being 5 minutes away and no shipping involved. I watched several other movies with the new Elite and am even more impressed with the separation and clarity of all the channels.The amp section seems to be only a little ahead of the 3802 however. Again, the pioneer has really pulled ahead on processing and features. The acoustic collaboration is truly amazing. All that was involved with setup was placing the provided mic in the listening position and pressing the auto setup. It amazingly judged the listening environment and all the setup was right on, from speaker distance, delay, size,level and so on. Truly a great innovation. Also the remote is improved over the 3802. Unlike the Denon,every button was well lit up and labeled. I am also interested in using the USB port to my laptop. Seems like another nice feature out of many.

#9 of 119 OFFLINE   Jorma

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Posted September 12 2002 - 07:30 PM

Anyone know what model numbers these Pioneer's Elite models use in Europe? I havent seen such products sold here at all.

I'm currenly thinking of buying Denon 3802, unless 3803 comes along soon.

#10 of 119 OFFLINE   Matt AR

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Posted September 13 2002 - 04:35 AM

How were you able to talk Ultimate down? Did they price
match, or did you just make an offer they couldn't refuse?

#11 of 119 OFFLINE   John Garcia

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Posted September 13 2002 - 04:51 AM

I don't really care about movie performance, how is the MUSIC? I am not a fan of the 3802 for music, and I have heard both the 41Tx and the 49Tx. The 49 was understandably, on a different planet compared to the 41, and quite a bit better than the 3802. I was not very impressed by the 41, but I did not listen to the 45Tx or 47Tx. Looks like I may have to stop in again...Posted Image
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#12 of 119 OFFLINE   Scott Merryfield

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Posted September 13 2002 - 10:10 AM

John,

I really like my 47TX for music. I listen mostly to two channel, since I only own a few DVD-Audio titles and do not yet have SACD capabilities. The Elite was a noticable improvement over my old Sony 50ES in music reproduction, offering a more 3-D soundstage and added clarity. I think the more robust amplifier section probably also helps. I cannot offer a comparison to the 45TX, though, since that model was not out when I purchased my Pioneer back in January.

BTW, it's pretty good for DVD movies, too. Posted Image

#13 of 119 OFFLINE   Arthur S

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Posted September 13 2002 - 12:55 PM

Devin

Did you pay $829 plus giving them your 3802 or did they subtract what they gave you for the 3802 from $829?

Thanks

Artie

#14 of 119 OFFLINE   MikeRP

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Posted September 13 2002 - 01:36 PM

Devin:

Congratualtions on your purchase. I luv my 45.
Devin, in stereo mode, is the subwooker supposed to work or not - I can't seem to get it to work in this mode..

John:

I think the 45 is great for music. Matter of fact - I wouldn't have bought if it wasn't. The soundstage is wider and I guess just great.

Check it out and let us know how you think it sounds with music - right now I play music in dpl2 and with the Acoustic Eq set to front align. This sounds as good as stereo mode only better. I never could get the HK 520 to sound as good in DPL2 or L7 mode with music as it was in stereo. Also the 5 channel stereo mode is great with this receiver.

Devin keeps us updated on your opinions of the 45.

Mike

#15 of 119 OFFLINE   RichardMA

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Posted September 13 2002 - 03:34 PM

Pioneer reminds me of Honda motorcycles. Back when, they did not particularly compare to the Yamaha's and Kawasakis of the world, but now they do. Same thing with Pioneer. You wouldn't have mentioned them in the same breath as Denon
or Yamaha 20 years ago, but today, they have really
achieved something. Congratulations to Pioneer!

#16 of 119 OFFLINE   Ben_E

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Posted September 13 2002 - 04:53 PM

I agree Richard. The Pioneer 45TX looks to be a damn fine receiver. I find that I have already put it in as a consideration for my next receiver purchase. But first things first, I need an SV sub heh.

#17 of 119 OFFLINE   DevinT

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Posted September 13 2002 - 07:06 PM

Arthur, as for the price is concerned, I only paid 120 dollars more than the 3802. I traded in the 3802 for the full 720 since I was still within my 30 day satisfaction guarantee. As for working the price down I simply told the salesman I needed a new dvd player and am thinking about upgrading my receiver. He then said he he could give me the 45tx at the same profit margin as the 3802 I bought. Turns out the price went down from 1200 to 830.
As for the stereo sound I once again prefer the sound of the pioneer. It better matches my s38II's and they sound better than ever. With the denon the combo was a little flat for my tastes.

#18 of 119 OFFLINE   DevinT

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Posted September 13 2002 - 07:19 PM

Mike,
I experienced the same problem on getting the sub to work for stereo. I could not figure out the problem after checking all my settings, and they all seemed to be correct. I tried many things and finally just reset the receiver.Well once reset, the the sub played with authority and worked like it should in stereo. Everything sounds great and I could not be happier with my purchase. I am really looking forward to playing some SACD's with my new DV-45a Elite player.

#19 of 119 OFFLINE   Ben_E

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Posted September 13 2002 - 08:28 PM

Whoa, DevinT thank you Posted Image. Just saying that because I have JBL S38 IIs and this even furthers my suspicians that this 'could' be my next receiver. Have to get over to some shops and listen but I wouldn't be surprised.

#20 of 119 OFFLINE   John Garcia

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Posted September 14 2002 - 04:39 AM

Quote:
Same thing with Pioneer. You wouldn't have mentioned them in the same breath as Denon or Yamaha 20 years ago

I completely disagree with that. 20 years ago Pioneer was making some very good stereo receivers with excellent amps. They seem to have slipped a bit over the years, but they are now back on the upswing with the Elite line.
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 






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