THE QUESTION OF COPYRIGHT (1 Viewer)

Robin9 · Jan 11, 2015

Lovers of old films but who are not in the industry often find it difficult to learn the copyright status of their favorite movies. Ebay and Amazon obviously don't care at all about copyright and routinely list products that are brazenly in breach of copyright. On the other hand, several "missing-in-action" films are rumored to be out of copyright but it is impossible to check if the rumor is correct.

We have at HTF several members who seem to have inside information about the copyright status of rare films. I'd like to use this specialised knowledge for the benefit of outsiders like me.

At present a DVD of the Universal-International mid-1950s film Raw Edge is on sale on the Internet.

The seller claims the film is out of copyright and is in the public domain. Does anyone know if this is true?

ahollis · Jan 11, 2015

If it is Comet Video's DVD then it's a bootleg. I don't think Raw Edge is PD.

Douglas R · Jan 11, 2015

I don’t think it’s that difficult to know if a film is out of copyright because there aren’t all that many and they tend to be regularly released on various different labels. If someone offers a DVD (I assume this is a DVD-R?) claiming it’s out of copyright, it usually isn’t.

RAW EDGE isn’t listed by any sellers on Amazon other than a French version titled LA PROIE DES HOMMES. The best way to find out if that version is legitimate is by checking the copyright details on the back of the box. I was able to do that via DVD Profiler. The DVD is not released by Universal but by the French label Sidonis Calysta. The back of the box states that it is licensed to the label by Hollywood Classics – who act as European agents for most Hollywood labels – and the Universal copyright logo 1956 and 2013 is also on the box. So the French release is legitimate and the Universal copyright demonstrates that RAW DEAL is still under copyright with Universal.

JoHud · Jan 11, 2015

There is a lot of that sort of stuff out there. Too much to count.

They typically follow the old abandonware scheme: If it is seemingly "abandoned" by it's publisher, it is safer to treat like PD material and the most likely still-active copyright holder is (in theory) less likely to take active measures against its distribution.

Generally more accepted if the abandonware in question is distributed free online rather than sold, but the same concept applies.

Bob Gu · Jan 11, 2015

RAW EDGE is also available in a licensed Spanish edition.

Many Rory Calhoun Universals are out on Spanish and French licensed editions and are for sale on Amazon France, Spain, and UK. French Amazon has the lowest price on the Sidonis RAW EDGE. There is a Florida based dealer who sells all these Euro licensed western editions on US Amazon who I have used, but his prices may be a little high now when comparing them to the European Amazons depending on postage charges.

Many Calhoun Universals like, DAWN AT SOCORRO, FOUR GUNS TO THE BORDER, and RED SUNDOWN have recently shown up on the over the air digital channel GRITTV.com Grit has also been showing numerous Yvonne De Carlo westerns, lately.

There is a good chance RAW EDGE may show up on GRITTV, soon.

Douglas R · Jan 11, 2015

Bob Gu said:
RAW EDGE is also available in a licensed Spanish edition.

Many Rory Calhoun Universals are out on Spanish and French licensed editions and are for sale on Amazon France, Spain, and UK. UK Amazon has the lowest price on RAW EDGE today. There is a Florida based dealer who sells all these Euro licensed western editions on US Amazon who I have used, but his prices maybe a little high now when comparing them to the European Amazons depending on postage charges.

Unfortunately we know that many Spanish DVDs are bootlegs and the Spanish DVD is on the Resen label known for non-authorised versions - some on DVD-R. The back cover of the DVD box gives no copyright notice for Hollywood Classics or Universal - which says it all.

Robert Harris · Jan 11, 2015

Renewed 10 Dec 1984

RE 227516

Bob Gu · Jan 11, 2015

Thanks Doug, I should have looked at that listing closer.

I think I have only purchased five R-2 westerns: the French, FOUR GUNS TO THE BORDER, licensed by Sidonis, The Spanish, BOUNTY HUNTER, CATTLE EMPIRE, both licensed by Impulso, and FIGHTING MAN OF THE PLAINS licensed by Suevia. The fifth a Spanish, RED SUNDOWN, from Illamentol, does not carry any copyright claims, so this one must be a bootleg.

Mark-P · Jan 11, 2015

Douglas R said:
...The best way to find out if that version is legitimate is by checking the copyright details on the back of the box...

Doug, what exactly is to prevent a bootlegger from putting copyright details on the back of their box?

Mark-P · Jan 11, 2015

Robert Harris said:
Renewed 10 Dec 1984

RE 227516

And do film copyrights still expire every 28 years or would a renewal in 1984 have been longer than that?

JoHud · Jan 11, 2015

Mark-P said:
Doug, what exactly is to prevent a bootlegger from putting copyright details on the back of their box?

Probably because it's a more severe crime than just bootlegging it?

Robin9 · Jan 12, 2015

Douglas R said:
I don’t think it’s that difficult to know if a film is out of copyright because there aren’t all that many and they tend to be regularly released on various different labels. If someone offers a DVD (I assume this is a DVD-R?) claiming it’s out of copyright, it usually isn’t.

RAW EDGE isn’t listed by any sellers on Amazon other than a French version titled LA PROIE DES HOMMES. The best way to find out if that version is legitimate is by checking the copyright details on the back of the box. I was able to do that via DVD Profiler. The DVD is not released by Universal but by the French label Sidonis Calysta. The back of the box states that it is licensed to the label by Hollywood Classics – who act as European agents for most Hollywood labels – and the Universal copyright logo 1956 and 2013 is also on the box. So the French release is legitimate and the Universal copyright demonstrates that RAW DEAL is still under copyright with Universal.

Thank you for that. I must admit I don't have DVD Profiler and, until your post, didn't know it existed! Obviously it will be useful.

But what about the reverse query, where a film has disappeared and there is no DVD, not even a bootleg? For example, Rod Taylor died a few days ago and one of his films is missing and should be available: The Hell With Heroes with Claudia Cardinale. Is there a copyright problem with this film, released by Universal in 1968?

Douglas R · Jan 12, 2015

Robin9 said:
But what about the reverse query, where a film has disappeared and there is no DVD, not even a bootleg? For example, Rod Taylor died a few days ago and one of his films is missing and should be available: The Hell With Heroes with Claudia Cardinale. Is there a copyright problem with this film, released by Universal in 1968?

I assume it's just another instance of many, where the studio simply hasn't made the film available on DVD.

DeWilson · Jan 12, 2015

Bob Gu said:
Many Calhoun Universals like, DAWN AT SOCORRO, FOUR GUNS TO THE BORDER, and RED SUNDOWN have recently shown up on the over the air digital channel GRITTV.com Grit has also been showing numerous Yvonne De Carlo westerns, lately.

There is a good chance RAW EDGE may show up on GRITTV, soon.

Problem with grit is if a film isn't letterboxed, they either air it window boxed, or fake widescreen

Bob Gu · Jan 13, 2015

I have not noticed any window boxing on GRIT. Everything is forced widescreen. Even the actual widescreen movies on GRIT look off sometimes to me. They look sort of squeezed top to bottom at times.

But they are showing huge amounts of beautiful color widescreen '50s westerns that I have never seen or even heard of, with multiple films of Audie Murphy, Joel McCrea, George Montgomery, Rory Calhoun and, yes, Yvonne De Carlo. I never knew she was a Universal western star. So seeing them on GRIT is a fun preview for the movies I would buy on DVD/MOD if they ever become available. I certainly could not afford to buy them all, so watching westerns on GRIT is very entertaining and even money saving.

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