SINGULUS announces 100 GB Blu-ray discs: The beginning of 4K BD? (1 Viewer)

Does Singulus know something we don't? Today Singulus announced production ready 100GB Blu-ray lines to produce triple layer Blu-ray discs.

Supposedly this is for Ultra-HD / 4K movies. It appears that the BDA is "discussing" specifications for the new 4K standard. It would be odd that Singulus would make this kind of investment if the BDA is only "discussing" specifications. It seems like there is something more at stake than just discussions.

The press release goes on to state:

In the 1st half of 2013 Blu-ray Disc sales increased by 41 % compared with the same period one year ago (German Association of Audio-Visual Media (BVV), August 2013). With a share of more than 90 %, physical media (Blu-ray and DVD) also continue to dominate sales in the home entertainment market in 2013. Blu-ray Disc sales in the US, the international key market, will expand with a double-digit growth rate in 2013. This favorable trend is amplified by the market launch of the new ultra-high definition television technology and the upcoming market introduction of the new gaming consoles Playstation PS 4 by Sony and Microsoft’s Xbox One. Both gaming consoles are even expected to be equipped with a Blu-ray drive with 4K support to win the consumers’ favor. At several gaming conventions and the IFA, the two new consoles were a highlight.

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I'm scratching my head on what exactly they mean by PS4 and XBox One expected to be equipped with a BD drive that has 4K support. If the BDA hasn't come up with a standard, how on earth would there be a drive in the consoles that supports it? Keep in mind that with the game consoles, the BOM is established a LONG time before there is even a hint of the actual product.

At any rate, if there really will be a new 4K Blu-Ray format and content that is in 4K, I am all for it!

I have been an enthusiastic buyer of DVDs and now blu-rays. The problem is I am buying approximately 1 blu-ray for every 10 DVDs. Therefore if this repeats for 4K I will not be buying very many. Clearly some contemporary films and older films on large negative formats may benefit from the higher resolution but I suspect not many older catalogue films will be worth upgrading.

Yeah i already mentioned this in the other thread yesterday but it's deserving of a thread of it's own.

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/topic/324982-why-optical-disc-wont-die-anytime-soon/page-7

4K discs will be complimentary to 1080p in much the same way 3D discs are, i see there being a small premium to buy them and they might package them with a normal blu ray to begin with, new blu ray players will be needed although the PS4 is going to be HDMI 2.0 out of the box and 4K ready, they still have to ratify the new H.265 codec which is supposedly almost 2x times better than H.264 aka the AVC codec currently used on many discs.

It would be nice to build up a collection while waiting for 4K display technology to drop in price, the display tech is too expensive at the moment but it will drop in price over the next five years, i think projection technology is where 4K will shine most.

I think if they package a 4K disc with current 1080p blu ray discs, as they do 3D discs, then it will work out okay, if they try and sell it on it's own it will die a slow horrible death.

I'm almost 100% certain that most people already have "format fatigue", and won't wear yet another physical format like 4K BD. I honestly can't see people who skipped BDs because they think DVD is good enough having even the slightest bit of interest for an even higher resolution format on disc! That's like saying "Oh, so you don't really like ice cream? Well maybe you'd be interested in two scoops of ice cream instead of one!". And current BD buyers are hardly going to be thrilled about a jump to a newer format, given some of them only recently jumped on the BD train.

Also I highly doubt that production costs will allow them to simply bundle 4K BDs with normal BDs or DVDs. I'm fairly certain these discs are going to cost a fair bit more than an average BD to produce. Studios would be struggling to maintain margins if they included these 4K discs.

I'm predicting 4K BD will be an ultra-niche product, used primarily to push the line that native 4K media exists for 4K TVs, so they can get those moving. Then it will abruptly die off. The future is streaming and downloading, whether we like it or not.

^
This, except for the last sentence, which I hope will not become the norm.

Even if the specifications for a new format are worked out, I can't see the studios having any interest in pursuing this. There's simply no market for it. There may be a small niche for 4K versions of newer films (the majority of which are still completed at 2K, by the way) and a handful bestselling classics (Wizard of Oz etc.), but that's about it. When a genuine classic like Jason and the Argonauts has trouble selling more than a couple of thousand copies on BD, what are its chances with 4K?

What PERSIAN and WORTH said.

4K will probably represent the fading trumpet of physical media, but who will still be listening? The Blu vs. HD war was unforgivable in the minds of many consumers and 3D is proving to be an incredible folly. 4K won't make a dent in anything but the aging home theater enthusiasts and even then just a small dent. All signs point to the next generation streaming on mobile devices without a lot of fuss and fanfare and, like it or not, manufacturers remain steadfast in catering to the next generation.

Worth said:

Even if the specifications for a new format are worked out, I can't see the studios having any interest in pursuing this. There's simply no market for it.

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Yeah, it seems like 4K is caught in a catch-22 as of now. If there's little 4K content, why buy a 4K TV right now (especially when a better and cheaper model will be available in a year)? And if there's not many 4K TVs available, what impetus is there for studios to release titles in 4K?

Well, they're trying to say that 4k streaming will have slow growth because of bandwidth limitations. Therefore, you'll buy a 4k disc. But I say people don't generally care about the resolution of home video...if they did, then they'd all be running out to buy bluray, and they're just not. The collectors' market has already been discovered--it is US. A further format will only be a curiosity, or a nuisance. We are the home video market... that's it. They've got us. Blu-ray fans. To make 4k successful, they'd have to create a whole new home video market. Not going to happen, because as I said, the general streaming public seems not to care about the quality.

I think the market will be small to begin with, lets look ahead several years when 4K televisions are affordable and people want 4K content, it's not about now, it's about the future, i think 4K will be worthwhile, especially for projection, that's a small market but i'm there.

Maybe if Star Wars 7 is really really impressive, it might be worthwhile to buy into a new 4K system.

FoxyMulder said:

I think the market will be small to begin with, lets look ahead several years when 4K televisions are affordable and people want 4K content, it's not about now, it's about the future, i think 4K will be worthwhile, especially for projection, that's a small market but i'm there.

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I have no doubt that 4K TV will eventually gain critical mass. You mention projection, but it is an extremely small portion of the market that won't be driving 4K adoption by any means. By the time 4K TVs become mainstream, (and it may be as long as 8-10 years from now), the bandwidth and technology will be there for 4K streaming, or 4K movie downloads. 4K physical disc, like HD-DVD or BD, is yet another an example of the industry pushing ahead way too fast for the average consumer. In this case, it's just a stop-gap solution between the physical and digital media transition.

FoxyMulder said:

I think the market will be small to begin with, lets look ahead several years when 4K televisions are affordable and people want 4K content, it's not about now, it's about the future, i think 4K will be worthwhile, especially for projection, that's a small market but i'm there.

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The problem with your argument is history is not on your side. For the past few years HDTVs have been affordable and also the only thing you can buy yet Blu-ray, while bigger than niche is not on the cusp of taking over for DVD. If 4K becomes the norm for TVs it will be because there are no more 2K TV sold and HD content the norm only because studios stop manufacturing DVDs. The market is not going to demand this change when given a choice.

While 4K *may* be better for projection I'd have to see it to believe it.Properly mastered Blu-rays look *stunning* projected to 120". And this is just sitting 8' from the screen.In any event, 4K Blu-ray will need to bring something other than just higher-resolution to the table in order to succeed. Blu-ray is better than DVD due to higher resolution, lossless audio, better durability, and the utilization of more modern video codecs. It still took it a half-decade to hit critical mass (admittedly slowed by the HD format war); and its only real competitor at the time was DVD. Also, at the time of its launch there was already at least a 30% market penetration of 720p and 1080p HD sets. 4K Blu-ray will be up against DVD, Blu-ray, streaming, *and* downloads; *plus* its target display is currently at less than 1% market penetration. This has all the earmarks of a "D-VHS" type format!

I suspect PS4 will set the stage with impressive 4k upscaling. Once many consumers already have that platform in place and 4k displays drop into the routinely affordable range, then I think we'll see newer native 4k content co-existing comfortably with backward compatible catalogue Blu-rays looking better than they ever have (most being mastered from 4k sources these days anyway).

So I wouldn't rule out gradually evolving into *select* 4k content, when warranted. To me, this won't be an either/or migration path.

me wants lawrence on 4k