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shows that have been destroyed


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#61 of 396 OFFLINE   The Obsolete Man

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Posted May 18 2013 - 09:04 AM

I do know that NBC has been adamant that they did not destroy anything that they didn't get prior permission from the owners to destroy. ABC could have been in the same boat. So yes, Curtis many not have given permission to destroy any Dark Shadows tapes, but depending on when ABC destroyed their stuff (I've heard anything before 1978 is gone) Dark Shadows was probably safe due to the series being in syndication as of 1975.

 

As for the one trully lost episode, it is just amazing that an audio recording of that episode exists. I'm still holding out hope that it will turn up eventually.

 

It's too bad MPI doesn't have the budget of the BBC, because they could probably have done a fair flash animated version of the one missing Dark Shadows episode, the way the Beeb is animating missing Doctor Who episodes.



#62 of 396 ONLINE   Frank Soyke

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Posted May 18 2013 - 11:01 AM

I've read so many differing posts about which Hollywood Squares are around, which were destroyed, which ones GSN ran, and which version. My head is spinning and I still gotta admit I don't have much of a clue as to what's out there. Let me simplfy the era of interest to me and maybe I can get some confirmation as to availability.

 

I watched the nighttime version religiously from about 74-78 and those are the ones I'm looking for. By this time Wally Cox was gone and the regular re-occuring panalists were: Lynde, Charley Weaver (early on), Rose Marie, Jan Murray, Marty Allen, And George Gobel plus to rotating ones.

 

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#63 of 396 OFFLINE   JMFabianoRPL

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Posted May 18 2013 - 11:15 AM

The 1969-70 season (under the title The Archie Comedy Hour) is indeed a mess. There is an Archies website run by a guy known as WindsorBear, and on his forum he explained in great detail what happened. This was the season that introduced Sabrina The Teenage Witch. The following season, Sabrina was spun off onto another show, Sabrina And The Groovie Goolies. Later on, they were split into two separate shows. And you are correct, some material got lost in the shuffle. For The Archie Comedy Hour, the longer cartoon segments (featuring The Archies and Sabrina) ended up as part of Sabrina The Teenage Witch. Other segments took place in the "funhouse" where the characters do short skits, tell jokes etc. They expanded this format the following season when the show was retitled Archie's Funhouse. The "funhouse" segments from The Archie Comedy Hour ended up being recut into half-hours and had the openings and closings from the later Archie's Funhouse series added to them. (Confused yet?) A real mystery is what happened to the song segments from the 1969-70 season. All the songs from the first season (Archie, 1968-69) and third season (Archie's Funhouse, 1970-71) remain but the musical segments from the 1969-70 season appear to be mostly gone. Only two ("Sugar Sugar" and "Jingle Jangle," which happen to be the Archies' biggest hits) made it to the Archie's Funhouse DVD set, and those survived because they were played on The Ed Sullivan Show. Even when reruns of the various Archie series were syndicated in the mid-1970s, the Season 2 songs were not intact -- for those shows, they re-edited the visual portions and dubbed on newly-produced "spoken songs" with Dallas McKennon's voice as the cartoon Archie. I have no idea why (since, again, songs from other seasons were left intact). Meanwhile, more Sabrina segments (featuring the Groovie Goolies) were produced for Sabrina And The Groovie Goolies. So when they started to release all this stuff on DVD, the Groovie Goolies half-hours came out as one collection, while Archie's Funhouse (1970-71) was released as a complete series set with some (but not all) the "funhouse" segments from The Archie Comedy Hour (and the two songs mentioned above) as extras. Most (but not all) of the Sabrina cartoons (with the Archies from The Archie Comedy Hour and the Groovie Goolies from Sabrina And The Groovie Goolies) were released as Sabrina The Teenage Witch: The Complete Series, which wasn't really 100% complete. The Sabrina set also has one half-hour episode of The Archie And Sabrina Surprise Package (a retitled cutdown of the 1977 series The New Archie/Sabrina Hour) as an extra.

 

The opening titles of The Archie Comedy Hour exist in silent form.

 

Hanna-Barbera's Banana Splits may not survive 100% intact either. Aside from the first season shows being cut into half-hours, for the second season the "Danger Island" serial chapters, cartoons and apparently song segments were repeats, but the rest of the live-action bits with the Banana Splits were new. These new segments didn't make the cut for the US syndicated series (though some definitely did appear in some internationally distributed half-hour versions of the show later) but apparently, the surviving 35mm master films are all cut into separate segments. Most of the Season 2 stuff is unaccounted for.

 

This might hold true for a lot of H-B hours, at least being seen in their original formats.  See: Dynomutt/Scooby, in which the syndicated intros are used for each segment and not the combined version.  Richie Rich/Scooby-Doo was similar, but just for the weirdly edited end credits. 

 

As was said previously, the Bill Armstrong-hosted season of Liar's Club was rerun on USA in the mid '80s (more than once). I never saw a Ludden episode (or any earlier Serling ones) during that run.

 

 

Four Star syndicated those reruns...if the tapes still exist, I guess they would be with Fox now?  Wonder if someone could confirm/deny this....


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#64 of 396 OFFLINE   Brian Himes

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Posted May 18 2013 - 03:06 PM

I've read so many differing posts about which Hollywood Squares are around, which were destroyed, which ones GSN ran, and which version. My head is spinning and I still gotta admit I don't have much of a clue as to what's out there. Let me simplfy the era of interest to me and maybe I can get some confirmation as to availability.

 

I watched the nighttime version religiously from about 74-78 and those are the ones I'm looking for. By this time Wally Cox was gone and the regular re-occuring panalists were: Lynde, Charley Weaver (early on), Rose Marie, Jan Murray, Marty Allen, And George Gobel plus to rotating ones.

 

Anyone that can help me gets a fur compliments of Dicker and Dicker of Beverly Hills

 

Yes, the 1971-78 Nighttime Syndicated version (the one you watched from 1974-78) is by all accounts the one version that appears to be or rumoured to be complete and intact. Since GSN did air just about half of the 1968 Prime Time version, I would assume that it also exists complete and intact.  

 

The regular 1966-80 Daytime run and the 1980-81 Daytime Syndicated run are the ones where most of the episodes are either lost or destroyed. The regular Daytime run is rumoured to exist from somewhere in 1978 to the finale of 1980 as well as the 1980-81 Daytime Syndicated run.


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#65 of 396 OFFLINE   oldtvshowbuff

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Posted May 19 2013 - 04:31 AM

Two full episodes of the first year of The Avengers survive and the first act of the pilot episode. The rest of the season was lost. Anyone know about Branded? The butchered syndicated episodes are on DVD, and I had heard that's all that remains of the Chuck Connors series.

Could the same hold true for the Walter Brennan/Dack Rambo series The Guns Of Will Sonnett? It too has been butchered for syndication in the 80s and released on DVD.

#66 of 396 OFFLINE   oldtvshowbuff

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Posted May 19 2013 - 04:42 AM

What about the Bob Barker -Truth or Consequences or Garry Moore TTTT stuff? Both were from the early-mid 70's. Did they survive?

I have a VHS tape of game shows I purchased from Shokus containing a Truth or Consequences episode taken from a color kinescope.

#67 of 396 OFFLINE   oldtvshowbuff

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Posted May 19 2013 - 04:52 AM

And now, how about those vintage Country Music shows on TV.

 

How much of The Porter Wagoner Show exists on videotape.

 

The Grand Ole Opry.

 

Or countless other country shows on television back in the 60s and 70s.



#68 of 396 ONLINE   Ron1973

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Posted May 19 2013 - 06:16 AM

And now, how about those vintage Country Music shows on TV.

 

How much of The Porter Wagoner Show exists on videotape.

 

The Grand Ole Opry.

 

Or countless other country shows on television back in the 60s and 70s.

RFD-TV has ran a pretty good cross sample of the show from the b/w era and on up to the later episodes after Dolly left.

 

Considering the Opry has been around since the 20's, I doubt a definitive amount of film exists, especially the earliest years.

 

Of particular interest, though, are the Kate Smith Evening Hour episodes with the Opry cast (including Hank Williams). They were thought lost in their entirety for a lot of years but were found in a Boston library in kinescope form. I have them on DVD courtesy of a friend of mine as well as some of the 1950's color episodes of the Opry (the Gazzaway films).


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#69 of 396 OFFLINE   DeWilson

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Posted May 21 2013 - 01:41 AM

Actually, a home recording of the CBS broadcast of Super Bowl I on a primitive video tape machine is now confirmed to exist and has been restored by the Museum of TV/Radio.   But the NFL has not been able to work out a deal with the original taper to obtain it for marketing purposes.

 

 

Wonderful, a greedy SOB holding out for a big payday!



#70 of 396 OFFLINE   Peter M Fitzgerald

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Posted May 21 2013 - 07:55 AM

Wiped tapes? Trashed film elements? Ultimately, I think we can lay 100% of the blame at the feet of this guy:laugh: 


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#71 of 396 OFFLINE   oldtvshowbuff

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Posted May 21 2013 - 03:47 PM

Consider the case of Paul Winchell and his dummy, Jerry Mahoney, who did a daily local color hour-long show in LA in 1963-64 and later syndicated by Metromedia, which wanted to recut those tapes into half-hour highlight shows. Winchell told Metromedia that he should supervise the editing, but they told him if he didn't sign a contract with them to give them the power to edit whatever they please with those 250 episodes, those tapes would be destroyed, and so they did, they hauled them all away, 250 2-inch wide tape reels in a dumpster, probably all dumped into the Pacific Ocean for all intents and purposes. Winchell sued for breach of contract, but he retained a few of those tapes, but they can never be seen again.OH, WHAT BIG DUMMIES THEY ARE, METROMEDIA!!!

#72 of 396 OFFLINE   Neil Brock

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Posted May 22 2013 - 07:08 AM

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Wonderful, a greedy SOB holding out for a big payday!

 

Disagree totally. Why shouldn't he hold out for a big payday? All I ever heard, before this copy surfaced, was how if anyone had it, it would be worth a million dollars. Then, when the tape turned up, they offered him $30,000 for it. All of a sudden, it dropped in value by $970,000 from when it didn't exist to when it did. Just because NBC and CBS were both too stupid to save the tapes. By the way, Super Bowl 2 is missing as well. But I guarantee you that if you turned up something rare, anything, a painting, a coin, whatever, and you were being offered a fraction of the stated value for it, you wouldn't jump at the deal either.



#73 of 396 OFFLINE   Neil Brock

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Posted May 22 2013 - 07:10 AM

Consider the case of Paul Winchell and his dummy, Jerry Mahoney, who did a daily local color hour-long show in LA in 1963-64 and later syndicated by Metromedia, which wanted to recut those tapes into half-hour highlight shows. Winchell told Metromedia that he should supervise the editing, but they told him if he didn't sign a contract with them to give them the power to edit whatever they please with those 250 episodes, those tapes would be destroyed, and so they did, they hauled them all away, 250 2-inch wide tape reels in a dumpster, probably all dumped into the Pacific Ocean for all intents and purposes. Winchell sued for breach of contract, but he retained a few of those tapes, but they can never be seen again.OH, WHAT BIG DUMMIES THEY ARE, METROMEDIA!!!

 

He won a lawsuit against them and collected something like $17 million.



#74 of 396 ONLINE   Ron1973

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Posted May 22 2013 - 07:40 AM

Disagree totally. Why shouldn't he hold out for a big payday? All I ever heard, before this copy surfaced, was how if anyone had it, it would be worth a million dollars. Then, when the tape turned up, they offered him $30,000 for it. All of a sudden, it dropped in value by $970,000 from when it didn't exist to when it did. Just because NBC and CBS were both too stupid to save the tapes. By the way, Super Bowl 2 is missing as well. But I guarantee you that if you turned up something rare, anything, a painting, a coin, whatever, and you were being offered a fraction of the stated value for it, you wouldn't jump at the deal either.

I believe I'd put that bad boy up on the "Tube" for spite!!!


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#75 of 396 OFFLINE   The Obsolete Man

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Posted May 22 2013 - 08:34 AM

I believe I'd put that bad boy up on the "Tube" for spite!!!

Probably can't without being sued.

 

IIRC, the way it works is The NFL owns the rights to the actual content of the recording, but not the physical recording itself. So, he really can't do anything with the tape except sell it to the NFL.



#76 of 396 OFFLINE   Silverking

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Posted May 22 2013 - 02:39 PM

Could the same hold true for the Walter Brennan/Dack Rambo series The Guns Of Will Sonnett? It too has been butchered for syndication in the 80s and released on DVD.

'Branded' & The Guns of Will Sonnett' were both syndicated together as a package titled 'The Chuck Conners Theatre'. No idea if the original prints survive.

 

'The Avengers' was itself a spin off of a half hour series called 'Police Surgeon'. Only one episode survives & appears on the first recent UK release.



#77 of 396 OFFLINE   TonyD

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Posted May 22 2013 - 07:48 PM

This is a brilliant idea for discussion.I can't think of any right now that may be gone forever but those old episodes of Liars Club and Make Me Laugh would be Instant purchases for me if I could get them on DVD.
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#78 of 396 OFFLINE   AndyMcKinney

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Posted May 23 2013 - 08:03 AM

'Branded' & The Guns of Will Sonnett' were both syndicated together as a package titled 'The Chuck Conners Theatre'. No idea if the original prints survive.

 

'The Avengers' was itself a spin off of a half hour series called 'Police Surgeon'. Only one episode survives & appears on the first recent UK release.

 

I'm pretty sure "Guns of Will Sonnett" was rerun on CBN in the mid '80s.

 

As for your other comment, were you talking of "The Avengers" or "Police Surgeon" only having a single episode existing? If the former, a second episode (Girl on a Trapeze) was discovered at UCLA (of all places), plus an extract from Hot Snow.



#79 of 396 OFFLINE   Jack P

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Posted May 23 2013 - 08:11 AM

Incidentally, I don't blame the person who has Super Bowl I with wanting more from the NFL.   He is the one who preserved a crude videotape recording for decades and is entitled to more than a paltry $30,000 from the NFL which can afford to give him more and which earlier placed a value much higher on an extant recording.

 

By contrast, there is an individual in Illinois by the name of Ewing who for more than 15 years sat on the only extant copy of Don Larsen's perfect game before he finally struck a deal with MLB that resulted in its airing.   Ewing found the kinescope at a flea market literally in the early 90s and for years afterwards first didn't confirm he had it (in the meantime figures associated with the broadcast like Mel Allen and director Harry Coyle had passed away and were denied the chance to see it again) then in the mid-2000s he started charging admission to see it at private screenings (usually on the order of several hundred dollars) before finally MLB got hold of it in a deal where it aired on the first day the MLB Network started on New Year's Day 2009. It has since been released on DVD though Ewing himself still markets a copy himself with the Gillette ads left it.   He is a different case from the Super Bowl I taper because IMO what he did to obtain the original isn't in the same category of what the SB I taper did.



#80 of 396 OFFLINE   DeWilson

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Posted May 23 2013 - 09:39 AM

Disagree totally. Why shouldn't he hold out for a big payday? All I ever heard, before this copy surfaced, was how if anyone had it, it would be worth a million dollars. Then, when the tape turned up, they offered him $30,000 for it. All of a sudden, it dropped in value by $970,000 from when it didn't exist to when it did. Just because NBC and CBS were both too stupid to save the tapes. By the way, Super Bowl 2 is missing as well. But I guarantee you that if you turned up something rare, anything, a painting, a coin, whatever, and you were being offered a fraction of the stated value for it, you wouldn't jump at the deal either.

 

But honestly, how did they come to the value of a million dollars? It's worth as a historical importance has be be weighed against what the NFL could generate by sales on DVD or ad dollars when rebroadcast.I mean if this guy things the league will pay him a million dollars (or more) he's out of his tree. 

The networks were not stupid - nor was the league for not keeping these broadcasts - it's the culture of one-and-done. Sports history has always been about the stats, not the actual game footage or broadcasts. 

 

 

He won a lawsuit against them and collected something like $17 million.

But he lost the shows, and the work he wanted continued to be seen. What few exist are in the hands of his estate never to be seen due to the settlement. 

 

'Branded' & The Guns of Will Sonnett' were both syndicated together as a package titled 'The Chuck Conners Theatre'. No idea if the original prints survive.

 

'The Avengers' was itself a spin off of a half hour series called 'Police Surgeon'. Only one episode survives & appears on the first recent UK release.

 

Again, it is most likely the master negatives do exist on the shows - I find it highly unlikely that king world (now part of CBS) didn't retain uncut negatives to "Branded" and "Will Sonnett"

Incidentally, I don't blame the person who has Super Bowl I with wanting more from the NFL.   He is the one who preserved a crude videotape recording for decades and is entitled to more than a paltry $30,000 from the NFL which can afford to give him more and which earlier placed a value much higher on an extant recording.

 

By contrast, there is an individual in Illinois by the name of Ewing who for more than 15 years sat on the only extant copy of Don Larsen's perfect game before he finally struck a deal with MLB that resulted in its airing.   Ewing found the kinescope at a flea market literally in the early 90s and for years afterwards first didn't confirm he had it (in the meantime figures associated with the broadcast like Mel Allen and director Harry Coyle had passed away and were denied the chance to see it again) then in the mid-2000s he started charging admission to see it at private screenings (usually on the order of several hundred dollars) before finally MLB got hold of it in a deal where it aired on the first day the MLB Network started on New Year's Day 2009. It has since been released on DVD though Ewing himself still markets a copy himself with the Gillette ads left it.   He is a different case from the Super Bowl I taper because IMO what he did to obtain the original isn't in the same category of what the SB I taper did.

 

The difference is Ewing is a respected sports films historian and archivist, who also runs his own business selling,and archiving sports footage particularly baseball. ( He worked for several teams and alot of that material, particularly pre-1963 is in the public domain and he saved it from neglect.)






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