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speaker suggestions (inwall vs satellite)


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#1 of 20 craig_curtis

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Posted April 07 2013 - 06:11 AM

howdy!

I am looking for speaker recommendations. It is a little different kind of situation than I have been in before. I moved into a condo/townhouse, and am creating built-in cabinetry for the living room to house the TV and stereo equipment. Currently, I have a 60 inch Panny Viera, and will be using my Denon 3311CI receiver. In my old house I had it paired with Paradigm Mini-Monitor v4 (I think) speakers for mains, Paradigm Titans in the surround, and a Paradigm Center (I forget which model, off-hand). And a JBL sub (which I am replacing).

 

The issue I have is that I don't have much (if any) room behind the couch for the surrounds, so I was thinking of doing either an in-wall (assuming it can be directed toward the listening position), or a small satellite (NOT a Bose!). And if I am going to replace the surrounds, I want to replace the front with something that sonically matches, if possible. Building into the ceiling is not a possibility because of the buildings codes/restrictions.

 

Since it is custom cabinetry for the tv and stereo, should I go with built in/in wall speakers? Or with a smaller satellite? Or other suggestions? I could use the existing paradigms, but then what for the surrounds? 

 

Listening is probably 80%tv/movie, and the rest music. Its an apartment, so so I won't be blasting it very loud. I would like to keep the speakers under $1500. 

 

edit: I am not opposed to hiring an AV pro to look at the space, if they are reasonable and in the area (NJ).

 

Photo on 4-7-13 at 9.43 AM.jpg

 

thanks for the help!


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#2 of 20 craig_curtis

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Posted April 07 2013 - 06:13 AM

Photo on 4-7-13 at 10.14 AM #2.jpg

 

another view


Edited by craig_curtis, April 07 2013 - 06:14 AM.

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#3 of 20 schan1269

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Posted April 07 2013 - 06:35 AM

KEF T series.

Easiest speaker to work with...$2000 is closer to budget...but the simplicity of "what to do with them" will make it worth it.

#4 of 20 craig_curtis

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Posted April 07 2013 - 07:01 AM

KEF T series.

Easiest speaker to work with...$2000 is closer to budget...but the simplicity of "what to do with them" will make it worth it.

I don't need to mount them on-wall at least on the front. How were you thinking they should be placed? I had not thought of low profile speakers like this. Maybe surface mounted on ceiling and aimed at LP (for the rear)? and what about the front? I don't think there is space next to the TV. Maybe mount a smaller front speaker sideways next to the center? 

 

thanks for the suggestion - I'll definitely add that to the short list, because it does seem like it has some good possibilities...


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#5 of 20 schan1269

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Posted April 07 2013 - 08:51 AM

Are you doing 7.1 or 5.1?

 

5.1 the speakers aren't supposed to be behind you anyway. They are off to the sides, more or less, facing each other. So there is no "need space behind".

 

Now, if you can't place them to the sides...what can you do?



#6 of 20 craig_curtis

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Posted April 07 2013 - 09:22 AM

well, I can place one of them to the side (room on left side of couch). But the wall on the right side it another 8 feet of so, and is open (overall floor-plan is sort of L shaped). I think I will have to do a 5.1 since the space is so limited. Like I mentioned, I can mount TO the ceiling, I just can't make a hole to fit an in ceiling (has to do with the buildings fire-ratings). 

 

what about mounting above the couch and firing down and slightly toward the back wall, so it will diffuse the sound?


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#7 of 20 schan1269

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Posted April 07 2013 - 09:38 AM

You can do this then...

 

http://www.amazon.co...g mount speaker

 

What, exactly, is wrong with using the present speakers?

 

The Titan is the bigger(and heavier) of the two...use them main.



#8 of 20 craig_curtis

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Posted April 07 2013 - 10:46 AM

You can do this then...

 

http://www.amazon.co...g mount speaker

 

What, exactly, is wrong with using the present speakers?

 

The Titan is the bigger(and heavier) of the two...use them main.

the mini-monitor is the bigger of the speakers. The Titan v3 is from the line that is a step below the mini-monitor. I don't mind using the mini-monitors for the front ( I can build the cabinet around them - so they aren't quite so "obvious" but for the surrounds, they need to be lower profile. They have a pretty low WAF, so I wanted to get something that blended into the decor a little better. If I use the minimon in front, then {whatever else} speaker won't match sonically. Not that the titan is the perfect setup either. But if I am going to spend the $ I would like to do it properly... Or at least as best I can

 

minimonitor is a v3, and center channel is a CC-370v3. The titan is probably about a inch smaller in every dimension than the mini-mon. I think they discontinued the titan series speaker I have.

 

edit2: here is a link to a review site on the v2 titan - mine are the v3


Edited by craig_curtis, April 07 2013 - 11:04 AM.

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#9 of 20 schan1269

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Posted April 07 2013 - 01:52 PM

I was going by Paradigm's site. According to them, the Titan weighs more...but I'm not sure "which V" I was looking at for either.

 

The Atom Monitor(check Ebay for some being sold) is only 10lbs.



#10 of 20 schan1269

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Posted April 07 2013 - 01:54 PM

Matter of fact...

http://www.ebay.com/...=item257ba52bcd

There are others "for less", but the less expensive didn't say V3 like this listing(title of the listing only).

But if you want to replace all 5...sure. Somebody would snap up your 5 in two seconds.

Edited by schan1269, April 07 2013 - 01:54 PM.


#11 of 20 craig_curtis

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Posted April 08 2013 - 05:28 AM

I was going by Paradigm's site. According to them, the Titan weighs more...but I'm not sure "which V" I was looking at for either.

 

The Atom Monitor(check Ebay for some being sold) is only 10lbs.

 

Yea I am not sure why Paradigm would change the lineup in such a confusing way. The Titan's I have do not have removeable grills but from what I can tell, are in no way similar to the ones they list on the site now as they only seem to have one tweeter and a 5 inch-ish speaker. They are definitely smaller than the mini-monitors, and don't sound quite as good (I think I paid about the same for the PAIR of them as I did for ONE of the mini-monitors, but I can't remember exactly - they were new speakers at the time). 

 

Anyway, I will probably actually keep them and use them at my office (I am self employed) and sell off the cheap-o JBL speakers I have there now. If I get new ones for home.

 

So if I DO keep the Titans, and others, would they sound ok mounted ABOVE the couch, firing down? I can probably paint them to match the walls to blend them in, but would that sound ok?

 

And the wife gave approval to move the couch out from the wall a bit (but not a ton) so theoretically I COULD mount a speaker behind the couch. I still can't mount them to the sides, as there is only one wall.

 

this drawing is not exactly to scale, but will give you the idea of the layout. It isn't exactly a brilliant layout for a home theater, but our options are limited...

LR.jpg


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#12 of 20 schan1269

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Posted April 08 2013 - 06:42 AM

What is the wall on the "right"?

Windows? Solid?

I know that is how you have it, so far, but is it feasible to swap the room where the back of the couch is to the hall?

That would simplify things immensely.

But, if the above is not doable...

Ceiling mounting ANY speaker is never the best. So, the speaker itself is irrelevant to the discussion. If you already have, and like, what you've got...there is no need for a major swap. Unless of course...you are ready for a different speaker experience. Your placement options have little bearing on the speakers. Considering the wall is out(unless you can arrange along the right wall)...ignore the KEF T. I chose the Atom specifically cause mounts for a 10lb speaker are easier to find and less expensive than a mount for a 20lb+ speaker. It matters not if you mount your Titan or MiniMonitor...or bought a matching set of Atom. The Atom just gives you greater flexibility in your choice of mount(the lower bass achievement is notwithstanding...cause you are ceiling mounting...the advantage the Titan would have over an Atom is practically non-existent, if both are hanging there out in the open)

Edited by schan1269, April 08 2013 - 06:42 AM.


#13 of 20 craig_curtis

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Posted April 08 2013 - 09:46 AM

the wall on the right side of the image is a row of windows, all the way across


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#14 of 20 schan1269

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Posted April 08 2013 - 10:04 AM

Rooms like this make me cringe.

 

Blasphemy here(from a purist standpoint)...

 

Would you(read WAF) be amenable to a complete room rotation?. The corner where your couch is, put the TV in the corner(and no, not a recommended placement 99% of the time). You could then float the chairs and couch at the 45 degree angle in the room...provided you don't mind having the back side of the couch 2/3 across the room. That would center the TV amongst the seating(paramount problem) and you can still do a proper LCR arrangement. My idea is to not put the TV exactly in the corner. Leave space back there for the sub(if that really is the best sounding place for it) and then let it just float a tad off the wall.


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#15 of 20 samnile

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Posted April 08 2013 - 11:09 AM

howdy!

I am looking for speaker recommendations. It is a little different kind of situation than I have been in before. I moved into a condo/townhouse, and am creating built-in cabinetry for the living room to house the TV and stereo equipment. Currently, I have a 60 inch Panny Viera, and will be using my Denon 3311CI receiver. In my old house I had it paired with Paradigm Mini-Monitor v4 (I think) speakers for mains, Paradigm Titans in the surround, and a Paradigm Center (I forget which model, off-hand). And a JBL sub (which I am replacing).

 

The issue I have is that I don't have much (if any) room behind the couch for the surrounds, شركات تسويق so I was thinking of doing either an in-wall (assuming it can be directed toward the listening position), or a small satellite (NOT a Bose!). And if I am going to replace the surrounds, I want to replace the front with something that sonically matches, if possible. Building into the ceiling is not a possibility because of the buildings codes/restrictions.

 

Since it is custom cabinetry for the tv and stereo, should I go with built in/in wall speakers? Or with a smaller satellite? Or other suggestions? I could use the existing paradigms, but then what for the surrounds? 

 

Listening is probably 80%tv/movie, and the rest music. Its an apartment, so so I won't be blasting it very loud. I would like to keep the speakers under $1500. 

 

edit: I am not opposed to hiring an AV pro to look at the space, if they are reasonable and in the area (NJ).

 

attachicon.gifPhoto on 4-7-13 at 9.43 AM.jpg

 

thanks for the help!

 

good .. congrats :) 



#16 of 20 craig_curtis

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Posted April 08 2013 - 12:04 PM

Rooms like this make me cringe.

 

Blasphemy here(from a purist standpoint)...

 

Would you(read WAF) be amenable to a complete room rotation?. The corner where your couch is, put the TV in the corner(and no, not a recommended placement 99% of the time). You could then float the chairs and couch at the 45 degree angle in the room...provided you don't mind having the back side of the couch 2/3 across the room. That would center the TV amongst the seating(paramount problem) and you can still do a proper LCR arrangement. My idea is to not put the TV exactly in the corner. Leave space back there for the sub(if that really is the best sounding place for it) and then let it just float a tad off the wall.

yea this layout makes me cringe a bit too, especially since we moved from a place that had a much better layout. I like your idea thought and will run it by the wife as it makes way more sense (to my movie geekery). But as you know, many wives have a "vision" and I think the tv is an afterthought in her book. If I can just convince her how much better TMZ, The Bachelor, and Biggest Loser will be with better surround...


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#17 of 20 Bobofbone

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Posted April 08 2013 - 04:34 PM

You might try going by a furniture store and seeing what is available to put behind or around the sofa if you move it to the central portion of the room, I've found high back tables, gunky lamps and artificial potted plants and similar arrangements have a tendency to be looked upon favorably and mitigate  WAF. The don't effect acoustics much, either. They can also make a surrond speaker on a stand less noticable. 


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#18 of 20 schan1269

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Posted April 08 2013 - 04:46 PM

Adding to what B.o.b. is alluding to...

 

If you do go with the central room approach with end tables...or the like...

 

http://www.amazon.co...ve speaker wire

 

Stick it to the floor and cover it with a rug.



#19 of 20 craig_curtis

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Posted April 09 2013 - 03:05 PM

so the wife poo-pooed the room at an angle look. But I am "allowed" to move the couch out a bit, which is what I think I am going to do, so I can at least get a speaker situated somewhere near the rear corners of the couch (without sticking out into the open space as much). What is wrong with these architects in the 1950's not planning for future home theater acoustics!?


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#20 of 20 Glen B2

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Posted April 27 2013 - 08:17 AM

I though my room  was bad.  Why is the sub on the side of the couch, when I'm seeing space in the corner to the left of the TV?  Years ago I had a sub positioned next to the couch, and it was an awful location. I eventually rearranged things so that the sub was relocated to the side of the TV.  It blended much better with the mains and disappeared sonically.  Axiom makes floorstanding, in-wall and on-wall speakers.  It should be possible to assemble a set of sonically matched 5.1 speakers from a mix of their on-walls and in-walls.  A couple of years ago I moved from Paradigm stand-mounted speakers to Axiom on-walls.


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