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Ockeghem's All Things DARK SHADOWS (w/Spoilers)
1769 replies to this topic
Posted January 20 2013 - 03:33 PM
The DVD sets didn't stop editing things out until set 11 or 12 when MPI started adding the disclaimer to the discs (and inserts) stating that the episodes are being presented as on the master tapes complete with audio and video imperfections. By then they were already through the 1795 storyline and well on the way towards the 1969 Quentin's Ghost story. From what I remember reading, it wasn't only audio bloopers that were being editid but sections where there were minor to severe video imperfections. To be 100% for sure, I would have to rewatch the entire series on VHS and compare it to the DVDs. For this reason and this reason alone I held onto my complete VHS set of the show. Eventually I plan on transfering the VHS series to DVD. I know it is a bit redundant, but I want a 100% complete version of the show on DVD as it originally aired or as close to it as possible. Ok, so which episode exactly is the one where the set caught fire? I've been watching the show for a long time and I've never been able to indentify it. Everything I've read about the show mentions it happening but they don't say specifically which episode it was. The same goes for the time Louis Edmonds wasn't wearing his pants. It's always talked about but no one seems to know which episode it happened.
Posted January 21 2013 - 04:39 AM
[quote name="Mark Collins" url="/t/310132/all-things-dark-shadows-w-spoilers/1170#post_4027461"]The fact is I never saw any of these bloopers or tape probems when first viewed by me as a kid during the shows original broadcast. I even had the pleasure of seeing the show twice over when I was a kid. Sort of like a VCR. I think Scott was able to view it twice too. We all know when the set caught fire in the histroy making episode where Julia confronts Barnabas at the end of it. I remember that Scott said the famous bloopers are on one of the special DVDs. I think it came out on on the special DVD between DVD 26 and the collectors series if memory is correct. I also have the VHS blooper tape too. Brian I stated that fact in above post. The Roger deal happen when he comes downstairs fast to finsh a scene holding his Brandy glass and in the end with shakeing hand drinks it and or breaks it. DVDs were not edited as far as you stated. Fans broke out in a roar after it was firs noticed. The notice that they are presented with all the video tape problems etc is on all DS product from MPI that i have ever watched. I have the original audios and also vhs tapes and of course the entire vhs collection. I often thought about going back to my original audios just for a listen there is history in them which is proved by the voice over in the credits. MPI I guess at one point had edited out the Bethia blooper which came to light this year and MPI corrected it. Fans called for MPI to do this and they fixed the problem right away.
Posted January 21 2013 - 09:17 AM
We all know when the set caught fire in the histroy making episode where Julia confronts Barnabas at the end of it.Sorry but that clue is a little too cryptic to pinpoint which episode the fire happened. What was the storyline at the time? Julia confronting Barnabas about something at the end of an episode happened a lot. Now if you are talking about the moment when Barnabas enters Julia's room to kill her and she is waiting for him (while Julia is searching for what happened to Maggie Evans), then I think I know which episode you are referring to.
DVDs were not edited as far as you stated. Fans broke out in a roar after it was first noticed. The notice that they are presented with all the video tape problems etc is on all DS product from MPI that i have ever watched.The uproar started with the Bathia Mappes episode which is on set 6. MPI did not specifically state that the episodes were being presented intact with the inherent video and audio blemishes until set 10. To compare, here is what the insrterts said on sets 1-9: The Dark Shadows episodes in this collection are mastered from the best possible sources. However, due to the technology at the time of production and the age of the original elements, certain video and audio imperfections exist that cannot be eliminated. Note that is does not say that the episodes are being presented unedited. Only that certain video and audio imperfections exist that cannot be eliminated. Also, when certain episodes used kinescope copies this would be noted in the disclaimer but nothing more. Collection 10-13: The Dark Shadows episodes in this collection are mastered from the best possible sources. However, due to the technology at the time of production and the age of the original elements, certain video and audio imperfections exist that cannot be eliminated. In particular, several episodes in this collection contain video streaks and varying degrees of picture instability in certain scenes due to an original camera malfunction at the time the episodes were recorded. It is not possible to remove the blemishes without editing material out of the episodes. To retain the program's entegrity, the episodes have been left intact, including these inherent video problems. Here is the first time that MPI is stating that the episodes are being presented intact and unedited. However, it doesn't state anywhere the audio defects or bloopers are being left intact but I think we can assume that the audio imperfections were also being let alone. Also, once again, episodes using kinescope copies were noted when needed. Collection 14-26, The Beginning Collection 1-6: The Dark Shadows episodes in this collection are mastered from the best possible sources. However, due to the technology at the time of production and the age of the original elements, certain video and audio imperfections exist that cannot be eliminated. And again, if kinescope episodes are included it is also noted when needed. So, taking all of this into account, any episodes from collections 1-9 are suspect to editing of varying degrees. Now when the complete series set was released it was stated that the Bathia Mappes episode was fixed but none of the other edited episodes from collection 1-9 were returned to their original 'as broadcast' versions. The hammering during the Vicky and Barnabas scene (where they are in the great hall discussing the book Barnabas gave Vicky, the whole being 'trapped by the past' discussion) is still missing as well as the funky audio noise during Caroline and Barnabas scene (where they are discussing Julia's notebook and killing her. Caroline is wearing the orange scarf around her neck) is also still edited. Again, from what MPI stated, only the Bathia Mappes episode was fixed for the complete series collection. There are also other edits to certain episodes from collections 1-9 but for me to be more specific I would have to rewatch the VHS releases. Here is what MPI had to say about the DVD edits way back in 2003: Dear Dark Shadows Customer: MPI is committed to releasing Dark Shadows in its complete and unedited form as originally broadcast. An outside videotape restoration facility recently digitally remastered the episodes for the program's owner, Dan Curtis Productions, and apparently there are a very few instances where the video facility has made small edits for technical reasons -- since the original masters have various picture blemishes and other problems due to the age of the material and the technology existent at the time of production (1966-71). We are investigating this matter thoroughly to hopefully avoid any further incidents even though the few trims encountered thus far have been minimal. Thank you for your interest and understanding. MPI Home Video This was from an email one Dark Shadows fan received when inquiring about the edits to sets 6 and 7. Now I am by no means saying that sets 1-9 all contain edited episdoes. I'm sure that there are a few that don't. Other than that three instances that I mentioned above, I don't recall any edits to any other episodes. However, again I am not 100% certain and the only way for me to be so would be to rewatch the VHS releases. The reason that I remember the three listed above is that the audio bloopers were so memorable that I noticed them missing when watching the DVDs. Here is a link to a thread right here on this board where someone did a side by side comparison with sets 6 and 7 and the VHS releases. http://www.hometheat...-6-and-7-edited
Posted January 21 2013 - 09:52 AM
Brian, So given all of what you and Mark have said, does this mean that if one (such as myself) has volumes 1-200 and 1-54 (i.e., the red and black and blue and black sets, respectively) on VHS tape, they have a "... 100% complete version of the show ... as it originally aired or as close to it as possible"? I have always thought that I had it very close to how it looked when it first aired, but perhaps I was mistaken.
Posted January 21 2013 - 10:27 AM
Episode #320 features a particularly unfortunate tape glitch where the picture momentarily goes blank (this happens towards the end of the episode where Barnabus is in deep conversation with Willie over young David's fate). I think the picture element might have been chewed or something. It's also one of the episodes where the colour version has been lost.
"When I get a little money, I buy movies. If there is some left over I'll attend to utilities and groceries".
My DVD and Blu-ray collection - http://classic-movieguy.dvdaf.com/
Posted January 21 2013 - 03:14 PM
Brian, So given all of what you and Mark have said, does this mean that if one (such as myself) has volumes 1-200 and 1-54 (i.e., the red and black and blue and black sets, respectively) on VHS tape, they have a "... 100% complete version of the show ... as it originally aired or as close to it as possible"? I have always thought that I had it very close to how it looked when it first aired, but perhaps I was mistaken.Yes, as far as I know the MPI VHS releases (Original Series Volumes 1-200 and Collector's Series 1-54) are the complete unedited versions of all 1225 episodes. The only minor thing that I can recall that isn't on the VHS versions is the voice over for the first color broadcast stating that 'the folowing show, Dark Shadows, is now being broadcast in color.' For some reason, the VHS version of that episode doesn't contain that minor voice over. It's kind of sad because the episode in question can now only be seen in a black and white kinescope version. I believe this voiceover was restored for the DVD version of the episode but I would have to go back and rewatch the episode to be certain. The reason I mention this is that it was pointed out in one of my many Dark Shadows books that it was ironic that the first episode filmed in color was actually broadcast in black and white and is now seen in color but the first episode broadcast in color is now only seen in black and white. However, missing that minor voiceover certainly doesn't affect the actual content of the episode so I don't count it as an edit since it is missing on the VHS. Also the recap voiceover that was supposed to be at the beginning of the episode where Maggie (in full bridal gown) is about to stake Barnabas is missing on both the DVD and the VHS (as far as I can remember). This voice over was done because (If I remember correctly) the ending of the previous days episode was pre-empted. The insertion of this voice over chopped off the first few seconds of the next episode after the opening credits. This is why the edit on this episode is rather jarring, but it is how the episode was originally broadcast. The edited footage has never been found and most likely was destroyed years ago. As for the kinescope episode after Barnabas bites Caroline, yes when MPI first released that episode there was a problem. The master tape for some reason was rewound and then fast forwarded (and yes this could be seen on volume 25, I believe). When I was completing my VHS releases (I had originally only bought volumes 1-28 during the third year of releases and once the series was complete I started buying the tapes again until I had the entire series) I contacted MPI and they informed me that the episode was fixed so I repurchased that volume to get the complete episode.
Posted January 22 2013 - 02:46 AM
Brian, Thank you for the excellent (and very detailed) information. I appreciate it. I am so thankful that I have (and continue to use) my VHS collection of this series as well as other shows. "The reason I mention this is that it was pointed out in one of my many Dark Shadows books that it was ironic that the first episode filmed in color was actually broadcast in black and white and is now seen in color but the first episode broadcast in color is now only seen in black and white." Ironic indeed! "However, missing that minor voiceover certainly doesn't affect the actual content of the episode so I don't count it as an edit since it is missing on the VHS." Agreed. I don't count it as an edit either, as it has nothing to do with the content of the episode.
Posted January 22 2013 - 05:59 AM
OK- may I put in my two cents here? It is a known fact that there was one scene accidentially edited from Volume 6- that was during Bathia Mapes' attempted exorcism when a blooper was accidentially edited out. The blooper can be seen on the MPI DS blooper DVD. When the DVDs were re-released last year in new slimmer cases and the big coffin set, Volume 6 was reissued with the edited scene put back in!. Therefore, if you want the complete episode in question as I did, get yourself a copy of the 2012 reissued Volume 6 set. It's fairly easy to tell the old Volume 6 set from the new: the new set has a full color cover, as opposed to the original, which was merely a tinted red photo as Josette as a vampire. A similar photo is on the new version, but in full color. Also, I suggest for all you completists to get the new Volume 12, which has a full-color werewolf on the cover. That now has footage that was also deleted the first time around (I understand it was a scene between Barnabas and Maggie). Otherwise, the older DVD collections are complete. If you have the older sets, all you need to get the new Volumes 6 and 12 for a complete series set with the edited footage (only two scenes!) . The coffin box set is complete with none of the accidental edits.
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Posted January 22 2013 - 07:34 AM
The episode where Maggie is about to stake Barnabas has a glitch but it GIVES a weeks summary of the show right after the opening credits on DVD 2. DS decided to do recapes during the opening credits later as the show aired in later years. The recaps were if the show was not on the day before like a NIXON conference or something. I have the audios. I have the one when Caroyln is attacked by the Werewolf in the episode when LIZ returns a recap on my audios. Laura and Angelique meet over Barnabas coffin a recap during opening credits again.
Posted January 22 2013 - 07:52 AM
Scott I am sorry to say there was some editing on those VHS tapes. Those of us who had the NJN tapes could see it when it came out. I think it was footage that lost a minute 30 seconds at most during transfer . My big deal was the Julia and Sheriff talking at Collinwood after Joe tried to kill Barnabas. The thing took out some comments. The edits are minor so minor that I dumped my NJN tapes years ago. I keep the VHS tapes just as back ups. The audio recaps would have been nice on all versions not just DVD 2 and on the VHS set. I grabed them from my old audios just to have them as I did when the DS movies were aired on CBS Late Night. I have the audios of the fire and I could drag it out to compare with the VHS and DVDs but that would be a great deal of work. The MPI has the notice and that was what i meant on all tapes. I looked at those all these years from vhs to dvd to mean edits caused by damage. Scott have peace my friend we have the closest to broadcast we ever had of our number 1 show in VHS or DVD
Posted January 27 2013 - 10:07 PM
I am now up through Episode #980. Lots of action in that episode...Jeb and Sky are both dead and Barnabas has crossed over into paralell time! Really looking forward to the PT storyline.
Posted January 28 2013 - 11:08 AM
DS The Complete Series is on sale at Amazon 333.00 along with some of the special DVDs. The Vampire Curse and the other one which is Quentins storyline.
Posted February 13 2013 - 12:49 AM
I'm now up through Episode #995. I'm not enjoying the PT storyline as much as I'd hoped. Part of it may be that Barnabas has been "chained in the coffin" for awhile now. Is this when they were filming the first DS film? I wonder what the audience thought of all of this at the time (Mark, Scott???). I believe that the ratings were starting to slide at this time and I can kind of understand why. I had no idea that they did a "Jeckyll & Hyde" storyline, so that's been enough to keep my interest going, but I'm just not as thrilled overall with the series now.
Posted February 13 2013 - 02:37 AM
Paul, I was (and still am) captivated by the PT story line. Having Barnabas in the scripts really raised my interest in the series, and of course it aided the ratings quite a lot. The Dark Shadows company of players often speak of how difficult it was for Jonathan Frid to learn so many lines as he was in so many episodes throughout the series. He must have welcomed an occasional break in the schedule every now and then. I don't really know if House Of Dark Shadows was being filmed at precisely this time in the story line, as I was chained in my coffin from approximately 1966-1971. (I had a good working television in there with me, of course.)
Posted February 13 2013 - 03:46 AM
Fans, There are some nice b&w images (and some other recent news) posted over at Dark Shadows Journal Online. http://darkshadowsnews.blogspot.com/ Mark, I remember the days of Daphne Harridge rather well. She was one of the first faces I ever saw when I first became interested in the series.
Posted February 17 2013 - 07:25 AM
Hi Scott, Thanks for the heads up on DS news from Stuart. He really keeps us informed. Have you or perhaps and other DS fans received a Shadowgram of late? I also thought we were going to get another Lara Parker Novel on Quentins story line and more comics from Stuart. Perhaps Charles can help us here . Charles has a wealth of knowledge about what is going on with the show. Charles can you help us?? I am watching Laura and we are getting ready for that very first Seance on Dark Shadows where Vicky speaks French. Next weekend I will be watching.
Posted February 17 2013 - 08:26 AM
Mark, You're welcome. And no, I haven't received a Shadowgram since before the new film premiered. I'll keep an eye open for it.
Posted February 18 2013 - 06:21 AM
I am watching Laura and we are getting ready for that very first Seance on Dark Shadows where Vicky speaks French. Next weekend I will be watching.Mark, watch for Laura's facial expressions when Vicky speaks French. Absolutely priceless! Speaking of facial expressions, I just finished the subplot where Maggie Evans escapes from the mausoleum after her memory returns of Barnabas' evil ways. The expression on Barnabas and Willie's faces when she invites them to her home and they find out she lost her memory again is pretty hilarious - especially Willie's, where he goes from all nervous jitters to relieved laughter in a matter of seconds. "Yes, that's right Maggie, it has been few weeks since I'm seen you". I actually watched that scene twice.
Posted February 18 2013 - 07:24 AM
I've just finished Collection 4 (episodes 331-371). Interesting point I noticed... Kathryn Leigh Scott only appears twice in the 2 weeks before the 1795 arc begins. I'm wondering if writers kept her appearances brief because she was busy with costume, wig fittings for Josette.
"When I get a little money, I buy movies. If there is some left over I'll attend to utilities and groceries".
My DVD and Blu-ray collection - http://classic-movieguy.dvdaf.com/
Posted February 18 2013 - 10:21 AM
Speaking of facial expressions, I just finished the subplot where Maggie Evans escapes from the mausoleum after her memory returns of Barnabas' evil ways. The expression on Barnabas and Willie's faces when she invites them to her home and they find out she lost her memory again is pretty hilarious - especially Willie's, where he goes from all nervous jitters to relieved laughter in a matter of seconds. "Yes, that's right Maggie, it has been few weeks since I'm seen you". I actually watched that scene twice.George, LOL! Yeah, I remember thinking it was quite amusing when Maggie invited them both into her home given recent events. I usually pay attention to the looks on the face of Barnabas as he is often examining his victims' expressions and words carefully to see if they're faking it as far as remembering or not. This time, he seems genuinely dumbfounded by Maggie's remarks. That is a great moment in the series for me.
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