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Looking for new receiver


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13 replies to this topic

#1 of 14 pensfan667

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Posted January 10 2011 - 01:04 PM

Im looking for a new receiver and soon speakers to go with it.


I was looking to spend about $3,500. I have 2 units in mind, but am stuck and not sure which one to get.


Here are my choices:


Onkyo: TX-NR5008

or

Denon: AVR-4810CI


I will get speakers to match either one of these once I make up my mind.


Any help would be great!



#2 of 14 David Willow

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Posted January 10 2011 - 02:25 PM


What is your budget for the speakers?  I ask since you are spending so much on the receiver I don't want you to make the mistake of overspending on the receiver and underspending on speakers.


Either of the flagship models are going to be great.  I suggest downloading the manuals for both and see which one appeals to you more.



#3 of 14 pensfan667

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Posted January 11 2011 - 12:33 AM

Well for speakers I was looking for about $1,500. I looked at both and of course as you know that both can have different things. Im looking for a great sounding receiver. Both receivers look great. I know Denon, but never played with Onkyo.


Thanks



#4 of 14 John Brill

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Posted January 11 2011 - 01:29 AM

You have your priorities backwards.  Spend 70% of your audio budget on speakers and 30% on the receiver.  On the receiver end, the biggest consideration, IMHO, is the amp section, especially if you will be spending $2.5k-$3k on speakers.


Hate to sound like a broken record and an Emotiva fanboy, but consider the UMC-1 ($699) pre/pro and the XPA-5 ($899) or UPA-5 ($599) amps.  Bang for buck, you won't be able to match this combo with Denon or Onkyo.  If you are adamant to have HDMI 1.4a compatibility, I'd consider the Marantz AV7005 (MSRP $1500) paired up with a good amp (Emotiva or Outlaw Audio Model 7125).


If you want an all-in-one receiver with the latest bells and whistles, stick to the $800-$1000 models, you don't need the flagship models.



#5 of 14 davepr

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Posted January 11 2011 - 01:47 AM



I agree.  Speakers are the most important components in your system, the most variable, and the ones you need to go to B&M stores and listen listen.listen.  Choose amps, separate or avr's, that match the load and efficiency of your speaker selections and your listening habits.  In John's 800 to 1000 range,  avr's such as the Onkyo tx-nr1008 or Yamaha avr-rx1000 should most likely meet your needs.
Quote:

Originally Posted by John Brill 

"You have your priorities backwards.  Spend 70% of your audio budget on speakers and 30% on the receiver.  On the receiver end, the biggest consideration, IMHO, is the amp section, especially if you will be spending $2.5k-$3k on speakers.


Hate to sound like a broken record and an Emotiva fanboy, but consider the UMC-1 ($699) pre/pro and the XPA-5 ($899) or UPA-5 ($599) amps.  Bang for buck, you won't be able to match this combo with Denon or Onkyo.  If you are adamant to have HDMI 1.4a compatibility, I'd consider the Marantz AV7005 (MSRP $1500) paired up with a good amp (Emotiva or Outlaw Audio Model 7125).


If you want an all-in-one receiver with the latest bells and whistles, stick to the $800-$1000 models, you don't need the flagship models."




#6 of 14 David Willow

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Posted January 11 2011 - 05:33 AM


That is what usually happens.  Folks spend WAY too much on the receiver and too little on the speakers.

As others have said, speakers are what you hear.  Contrary to popular belief, the receiver does not have that much impact on the sound quality (once you get above a few hundred $$$, at least).


I would suggest start by listening to speakers and looking at online only brands like SVS and Axiom.  Spend $3000+ on the speakers (especially the subwoofer) and then get the receiver.  FWIW - You could easily spend $1500 on a sub and be happier in the end.  Posted Image



Originally Posted by pensfan667 

Well for speakers I was looking for about $1,500. I looked at both and of course as you know that both can have different things. Im looking for a great sounding receiver. Both receivers look great. I know Denon, but never played with Onkyo.


Thanks





#7 of 14 pensfan667

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Posted January 13 2011 - 01:50 AM

Thanks guys. Just need something with 3d pass through. Ill take a look at your suggestions for receivers. So what kind of speakers do you recommend to listen to first?



#8 of 14 Palmz

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Posted January 13 2011 - 02:04 AM


I own the 4810CI and let me say that despite it being a stunning piece of equipment I wish that I had gone the route previously described by John here. I matched it with the latest gen Paradigm Reference Studio 100's, a CC-690 and 4 ADP-590's around the back. The theatrical experience leaves virtually nothing to be desired, but I've grown to appreciate high-fidelity music more and find myself wanting even more our of my speaker musically (again, the Studio 100's are absolutely superb at their price point though). And as John has indicated big power and dedicated processing can be had for the same or less. Plus, I like the idea of over-spending on a killer amp and then switching out processing units more frequently.

Originally Posted by John Brill 

You have your priorities backwards.  Spend 70% of your audio budget on speakers and 30% on the receiver.  On the receiver end, the biggest consideration, IMHO, is the amp section, especially if you will be spending $2.5k-$3k on speakers.


Hate to sound like a broken record and an Emotiva fanboy, but consider the UMC-1 ($699) pre/pro and the XPA-5 ($899) or UPA-5 ($599) amps.  Bang for buck, you won't be able to match this combo with Denon or Onkyo.  If you are adamant to have HDMI 1.4a compatibility, I'd consider the Marantz AV7005 (MSRP $1500) paired up with a good amp (Emotiva or Outlaw Audio Model 7125).


If you want an all-in-one receiver with the latest bells and whistles, stick to the $800-$1000 models, you don't need the flagship models.





#9 of 14 pensfan667

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Posted January 13 2011 - 03:20 AM

So Palmz what made you decide to get the 4810CI? What receiver would you have gotten instead knowing what you now know?



#10 of 14 dmiller68

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Posted January 13 2011 - 04:29 AM

I would also decide which speakers you want and find the best matching receiver. If you are looking for suggestions. SVS Subs rock... I have never heard any of their speakers. Definitive Technology Speakers - for home theater they rock! I would also look at the Pioneer Elite SC-35/37 receivers. I love my SC-27 and I'm getting the 37 in a week or two.
Equipment: Panasonic TC-P65VT25, Panasonic DMP-BDT100, Pioneer Elite SC-37, TiVo Premiere XL, Limited Edition MW3 XBOX 360s with Kinect, Apple TV
Speakers: Definitive Technology Mythos XTR60 (3), Definitive Technology Mythos XTR20BP (4), Definitive Technology SuperCube II


#11 of 14 John Brill

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Posted January 13 2011 - 04:41 AM



Originally Posted by pensfan667 

So Palmz what made you decide to get the 4810CI? What receiver would you have gotten instead knowing what you now know?



 Jason, I think we've all been where you are at now.  My first dip into home theater I bought a Yamaha RX-V540 with a Yamaha speaker package.  It served me well initially but I started wanting a little more "oomph" out of watching movies.  I quickly realized that it wasn't the receiver causing me issues, but the inadequacy of my speakers.  I quickly upgraded from a 8" sub to a 12" sub which had me grinning from ear to ear.  Then I started listening to music and the grin disappeared.  The mids and highs out of my speakers when in 2 channel mode were harsh and strained.


This lead me to a serious upgrade in speakers and I opted for B&W's mainly because I could get them for the same price as comparable Totem or PSB packages I was looking at.  I paired up the speakers with a Rotel receiver for more power and upgrades to surround sound codecs etc...


And along came HDMI to ruin my party Posted Image  I managed for a while with multi-channel analog ins but I only had room in the receiver for one such input device (my blu-ray player) and now had several input devices competing for the slot (PS3, Cable Box, X-Box 360, Blu-Ray).  Then the enviromentalist in me kicked in (sounds better than "cheap bastard") where I didn't want to replace a perfectly good receiver (with a really good amp section!) just for HDMI.  This is when I wished home theater would move back towards an affordable separates type of environment like Hi-Fi was 20 years ago.  Lo and behold, the smaller independant companies like Emotiva, Outlaw, and even NAD (instead of separates, NAD is going the swapable cards route, much like a PC design) sensed the change in mood and paired it up with their existing Hi-Fi products.  Intially I paired an Emotiva UMC-1 pre/pro with my Rotel doing only amplification duty.  I have since bought separate amplification (again Emotiva) and have moved the Rotel out of my home theater into my family room.


So, the lessons I learned, speakers matter most.  More than the electronics, speakers are what is going to define limits of your home theater and they won't be obsolete tomorrow.  This is the smarter investment.


Receiver technology is changing fast!  Last year HDMI 1.3a was the be-all-end all and we already have HDMI 1.4a scheduled for April and HDMI 1.4b, I wouldn't be surprised, is probably lurking in the background for a summer bummer fest.  The bulk of a recievers cost is the amp section, why do you want to replace that every year?



#12 of 14 pensfan667

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Posted January 13 2011 - 05:20 AM

John,


Great info thanks! Ill start with the speakers and move from there.




#13 of 14 dmiller68

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Posted January 13 2011 - 06:58 AM

I do agree with John coments on receiver tech always changing. I bought my SC-27 about 13 months ago then comes 1.4a to mess me up durning my latest upgrade. I will say that the main reason I went with the Pioneer SC receivers is because of the amps. They are assume. I was able to sell my 27 for $1000 and got the 37 for $1600 so I feel pretty good about my upgrade.
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#14 of 14 Palmz

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Posted January 14 2011 - 05:45 AM


To be honest I bought it because of past experience with Denon and because they had it at the shop that had the speakers I wanted. I was auditioning towers by the pair, and knew that I would match the center and surrounds with whatever I choose for the towers. The Paradigm Studio 100's and Focal Chorus 700's (or 800's, can't remember) were both available at the same place. The Focal's were more emotive for certain types of music, but then when my personally favorite genre came around (female vocal Jazz), the Paradigms were clear winners - incredible vocal detail and stage for the price range, and I LOVE the Paradigm Sub-12 and Sub-15. I chose the Denon 4810CI because I had owned a flagship Denon receiver about 10 years ago and was utterly satisfied with it (also powered an older gen Studio 100). In between these two Denon's I had a Sherwood Newcastle R-965 which I was not as impressed with, although it was still good and satisfying.


Trouble is I now have friends and colleagues with cheaper systems that sound a little better than mine. If I were to go back I would have gone with a more expensive speaker and an absolutely dynamite independent amp. The most I would have spent on processing would have been $1500. In fact the Marantz SR7005 looks stellar and I want it. I would even be tempted to go one lower to the SR6005. But I haven't ever done the research on going the seperates route because it seems impractical at this point. For my next system I will likely go with a Focal BE-line speaker, or even something from Cabasse. Independent amplifying and processing for sure though.


My current system...

Paradigm Reference:

     Studio 100's

     CC-690

     ADP-590

     Sub-12

Denon AVR-4810CI

Cambridge Audio Asur 650BD

Runco LS-5


Originally Posted by pensfan667 

So Palmz what made you decide to get the 4810CI? What receiver would you have gotten instead knowing what you now know?