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'Best of' Star trek TNG Blu-ray set?


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#1 of 50 OFFLINE   Camper

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Posted March 08 2010 - 11:38 AM

Many of us know by now, the expense and time it would take to re-do the 178 episodes of TNG make it very unlikely they'd spend millions to do so, BUT what about the possibiltiy of Paramount taking the most popular 20 or so episodes and converting those?

Even I, a huge trek fan would be paused by the idea of buying an expensive blu-ray set of season 1 or 2, but i would most certainly buy a 'best of' set.


Heck, get the fans involved-----take polls asking fans for their favorite 20 episodes and then announce the winners and keep the fans up to date on the progress of the re-mastering, extras, commentaries etc. Include deleted scenes and other out-takes.

  A poll would also help them gage the interest of the fans. Maybe even do some TOS style upgrades to the FX (with branching.)

A would drop a pretty penny on so ambitous an endeavor and i would be willing to pay extra for 'Yesterday's Enterprise', Q Who, Best of Both Worlds, 'Matter of Honor' etc. in Blu-ray with 7.1 sound.

Good/bad idea??

#2 of 50 OFFLINE   Sam Favate

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Posted March 08 2010 - 11:25 PM

Unlikely to happen. Either the entire season/series is released or nothing is likely to come out. Most Trek fans will not be satisfied with 20 episodes when everyone has their own favorites.


#3 of 50 OFFLINE   Joseph Bolus

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Posted March 09 2010 - 01:02 AM

 I'm sure that the CBS/Paramount execs are all "scratching their heads" as to what to do with the TNG, DS9, and VOY series.

Probably the best that we could ever hope for is that an analog-to-digital process is perfected which will allow these series (and other series from the 80's-to-early 90's which were edited on video) to be converted to the digital realm with a computer enhanced upscaling.  Something like a Lowry clean-up ... but for video as opposed to film. Of course, it would have to be a relatively inexpensive process just due to the sheer number of episodes.   

 


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#4 of 50 OFFLINE   Camper

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Posted March 09 2010 - 02:19 AM

Yes, most fans would prefer nothing on Blu if they can't have all their own favorites included.



#5 of 50 OFFLINE   Jesse Blacklow

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Posted March 09 2010 - 02:46 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camper [url=/forum/thread/298736/best-of-star-trek-tng-blu-ray-set#post_3668583]
Read his comments again.

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#6 of 50 OFFLINE   Camper

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Posted March 09 2010 - 03:28 AM

First of all, there are NEVER going to go back and find the raw footage from 178 episodes, re-assemble them and then redo the FX---NEVER. That's millions & millions of bucks.
So the idea that it's all or none is foolish.

They have 4 options............

1. NO TNG on Blu-ray---period
2. TNG on Blu-ray in SD with lossless 7.1 perhaps (they could at least then fit the seasons onto far fewer discs) But many rabid fans have them in SD already.
3. Upconverted episodes (with hopefully better results than the Trials & Trbulations experiment)---which would mean at least 5 discs per season for simple upconvert = expensive for fans.
4. A 'best of' set like i suggested.

They HAVE before done polls for the existing 'best of' DVD sets---so there is precedent.
Common sense tells us that most fans like certain episodes (it seems likely to me Best of Both worlds would be on 95% of fans lists, likewise 'Q Who' (the first borg episode)
Also most of the Worf episodes 'Reunion', 'Sins of the father' Redemption', the Spock two-parter, 'Yesterday's Enterprise', the series finale etc.

Would i be disappointed if all my favs didn't make the cut--a little, but, would I  respect the process and be happy to get a score of TNG episodes in true HD-----YES

In fact, i would be thrilled.

Now if someone more knowledgeable than I can say that even doing 20 episodes will be cost prohibitive and non profitable for Paramount---I might understand. But to just dismiiss the notion that the studio or fans wouldn't want a partial HD release I think is wrong.

#7 of 50 OFFLINE   Camper

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Posted March 09 2010 - 03:35 AM

Also, if Paramount explained the situation honestly and plainly it would be refreshing and helpful...............

The work/ expense involved, the reason why they can't be released the way TOS was, and the fact that only a one-time, fan favorite set would likely to be feasable---could help the fans realize it just wasn't some marketing scam and in a year or two the studio wouldn't come out with season sets after-all.

#8 of 50 OFFLINE   Nelson Au

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Posted March 09 2010 - 04:17 AM

I'm in the all or nothing camp. Make the entire series available or not.

I was casually watching the blu ray of Trials and Tribble-ations. It looked okay, but nothing to write home about. I agree it wasn't better then the SD-DVD.

If they can't bump the clarity up a lot, then it's probably not worth it to most people to rebuy the sets...

I bet CBS studios had gotten the process down pretty well when they redid the TOS effects shots. Though I bet with what they learned, they might do a better job then they did with TOS. The TOS Enterprise varied from flat to very real looking. And TNG's original effects were okay in the first 2 years to great at the end. So the point is, they might be more efficient at redoing the effects. And not restrained with the notion of matching the level of effects work from the 1960's to a 2006 level of CGI.

The TOS sets set the bar very high. So it's probably going to be difficult for a TNG set. I wonder what the source materials are that were used for the TNG DVD sets. Tapes or film. I don't know, I'm guessing even though the effects were done on video, did they transfer it back to film? If so, couldn't they take the live action and do the same level of restoration as they did on TOS?, then cut new effects into that cut like on the TOS effort.


#9 of 50 OFFLINE   Sam Favate

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Posted March 09 2010 - 04:46 AM

It's more than that, Steve. Part of the appeal of DVD in the first place is not just great picture and sound quality but the ability to archive. DVD collectors are after a large degree of completion, which is why fans get annoyed when music is changed (see the reaction to Paramount's Fugitive DVD sets) or when all the available extras are not included (Generations' trailer was left off two DVD releases), and so on. The TOS sets include the entire series, warts and all. (How many would buy Spock's Brain if it were not included in the set?)

Personally, I would vote for no TNG on BD rather than the piecemeal project you suggest. BTW, twenty episodes is close to an entire season, and that would also be a considerable expense for the studio.


#10 of 50 OFFLINE   Camper

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Posted March 09 2010 - 04:49 AM

^^
So you would prefer none to some?? Wow? And yeah, 20 episodes are close to a seasons worth---that's obvious. That's what i am suggesting---about a seasons worth of the best episodes.

Do you think that doing all 178 episodes can be done profitably?

And if they are released season by season you'd have the weaker seasons out first----the exact opposite of TOS !!

I myself would not buy season 1 or 2 and it seems that if they released season 1 and 2 and they weren't big sellers they'd possibly stop right there.
Also doing the whole series would take literally years to do----while the focus of the franchise is now back to the original characters.

I wish we could get even a very rough estimate of what it would cost to re-do a single episode.

$10,000, $25,000 more? This mixed with the fact that fans are increasingly wanting the season sets to be affordable. If Paramount is spending millions to re-do the series pretty much from the editing process forward--not to mention the fact that the original elements may need restoration/cleaning as well----they are not going to dump these on the market for the $40-$60 fans have been paying for TOS.

And i am a big TNG fan, but I won't buy 7 seasons anyway--unless i hit the lottery. It's good entertainment---but it not the compact, classic must-have that TOS is.


#11 of 50 OFFLINE   Garysb

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Posted March 09 2010 - 06:53 AM

Who knows if the raw film footage still exists. Have there been any shows where the editing was done on video and that were mastered on 480i been released on blu ray ? I am talking about a show like "Cheers" which doesn't have special effects.   Even if the film does exist who knows what condition it is in. I don't think anyone knows what exists and in what condition it is in. Unless a way can be found to do this work cheaper in the future, I just don't see this happening.

#12 of 50 OFFLINE   JediFonger

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Posted March 09 2010 - 07:25 AM

i assume CBS has no stakes in trek from TNG onward, is that correct?


#13 of 50 OFFLINE   Garysb

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Posted March 09 2010 - 08:19 AM



Originally Posted by JediFonger 

i assume CBS has no stakes in trek from TNG onward, is that correct?
 
I am no expert but I believe Paramount TV became part of CBS when Viacom split into 2 companies, Viacom and CBS. Therefore all of trek TV should be with CBS.


#14 of 50 OFFLINE   John Stuart

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Posted March 09 2010 - 10:36 AM

If almost 5 years after the BD format hits the market, no TV show from the past decades except for a bunch ones were released on Blu, what does that tell us?

Either is not possible to do that (like someone noticed, they can't never do that for example with X-Files) or they don't think the sales will justify the costs?

But if that's the case, then why they can't release TNG or any of those old shows like they did with TOS but instead of showing the episodes with or without the new FX (you can select either of them in all TOS discs), they mix the old effects on video, with some scenes ih HD quality?

It might look awful but isn't that worth enough to do an upgrade on the current DVD releases?

Can we at least expect that happening?

Is it possible that all regular scenes (the ones where two actors are just talking with each other) will be available in HD quality, and more than that, in a good quality and not just upscale from SD tapes? I can't believe that only doing special effects from scratch is the main issue.

And if they ever did that, we would definitelly expect some criticism if they didn't put the original effects on those discs (not because the purists will complain - the original work would be altered like replacing a original black-and-white with a colorized version and not including one of them on the disc, which is not a good idea, specially when all discs can store both).
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#15 of 50 OFFLINE   Alex cosmo

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Posted March 09 2010 - 11:33 AM

IF the film still exists and can be located, they'll do it eventually. Probably with new effects, that kind of CGI that they used for the original series is getting cheaper every year. If the show had no effects and was as popular as Seinfeld they'd be doing it already.


#16 of 50 OFFLINE   dana martin

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Posted March 09 2010 - 11:40 AM



Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Bolus 

 I'm sure that the CBS/Paramount execs are all "scratching their heads" as to what to do with the TNG, DS9, and VOY series.

Probably the best that we could ever hope for is that an analog-to-digital process is perfected which will allow these series (and other series from the 80's-to-early 90's which were edited on video) to be converted to the digital realm with a computer enhanced up-scaling.  Something like a Lowry clean-up ... but for video as opposed to film. Of course, it would have to be a relatively inexpensive process just due to the sheer number of episodes.  

 
will this happen, as already stated someone at CBS is scratching their collective heads, this is CBS/Paramounts cash cow, will these be cleaned, remastered and have new effects done, one word states it all (Cindy Brady), i mean syndication, LOL, it could be re-marketed all over again just like TOS was, as we get further and further into HD programing, items for stations in HD will need a steady diet of items for  the future of programing. Someone stated that the current trend in Trek is the TOS crew, well with J.J. running that current franchise, i am sure a tie-in of some way is possible 
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#17 of 50 OFFLINE   SilverWook

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Posted March 09 2010 - 06:15 PM

Apparently, some TNG stock footage was newly transferred  for use in Enterprise's final episode, so the original film reels must be around.

www.ex-astris-scientia.org/inconsistencies/ent_vs_tng.htm




#18 of 50 OFFLINE   Joseph Bolus

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Posted March 10 2010 - 05:52 AM



Originally Posted by SilverWook ">

Apparently, some TNG stock footage was newly transferred  for use in Enterprise's final episode, so the original film reels must be around.


Joseph
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#19 of 50 OFFLINE   Douglas Monce

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Posted March 10 2010 - 06:11 AM

The big problem is not just the effects. The problem is THE WHOLE SHOW. Every episode of TNG likely shot 4 to 6 hours of footage for each 46 min show. That means that they would have to have the edit room logs to know which takes of each shot were used. In some cases, a particular close up of an actor might be, take four for the first part, take six for the middle, and take one for the last part. All inter-cut with close ups of another actor. They would also have to know how many frames of each shot were used. With out the edit logs, they would have to look at each episode shot by shot, and cut by cut to find out what all was used. Now maybe the edit logs still exist and maybe they don't. Having seen the special about the auction they did of Star Trek items a few years ago, I was surprised how little information they had about what some of the stuff was even as recently as Voyager.

Then there issue of the effects shots. The model work on TNG, much of it having been done by ILM was very good. The problem is the video compositing. If the original elements of those shots still exist, then they could be re-comped with today's technology and would look in my opinion, stunning. The other option would be to re-create them from scratch in the computer. Either way is going to cost LOTS of money. In addition to that, things like phasers and other animated effects were created and exist only in 480i resolution and would have to be created from scratch.

Now I'm fairly sure that Paramount knew what it had by 1987 with Star Trek, and they would preserve the film and sound elements. But my guess is that to do this process to all 178 episodes of TNG, would cost more and take longer than it took to create the show in the first place.

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#20 of 50 OFFLINE   Douglas Monce

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Posted March 10 2010 - 06:14 AM



Originally Posted by Joseph Bolus 






Now ... I *do* like the idea of a new standard-definition release to Blu-ray using the VC-1 codec and DTS-HD MA audio.  Due to the 50GB/disc storage capacity, it should be possible to put about 20 eps (in standard definition) on each disc.   That means the entire series would fit on about 9 or 10 BDs!!  And the audio/video presentation will still be way above what we currently have on DVD (especially the first two seasons).  



 
I don't think the audio and video presentations would be any better than what we have on DVD now. The big stumbling block in this case is not the codec being used on the DVDs, but rather the vintage late 80's telecine work of the show. Its always going to be soft with bleeding colors. Using a more advance codec won't help that situation. In fact Trials and Tribulations, on the second season TOS blu-ray set, looks in my opinion worse than it does on the original DS9 DVD.

Doug


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