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Starting to buy for my first HT.


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15 replies to this topic

#1 of 16 RJCornine

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Posted March 31 2009 - 08:54 AM

Hi, I am new to this site and I am happy that I stumbled upon it because there seems to be lots of supporting members and lots of good information available. That being said I am getting ready to move into my new home and there happens to be a home theater room down in the basement. Its not wired or anything like that but it's suppose to have extra insulation or something along those lines. Anywho I have a few things picked out and I would really like to get everyones thoughts on my choices and any other suggestions.. any and all comments are welcome. The room is roughly 19.5'x14.5'. No windows or anything like that. 10 foot ceilings.

speakers:
Wanting to go with Klipsch
front towers: RF-83
center: RC-64
Rears: Rs-62
sub: RD-12D

Receiver:
Pioneer Elite SC 07

Blu-ray:
Pioneer BDP-05FD

Projector:
JVC DLA-RS10

then for the screen i was thinking about just buying the material and making a 160" screen and just building the boarder for it. and thats about all I have planned at the moment. Just give me your opinions of what i have chosen and if there is something better that you think i should consider that would be great too. thanks in advance, Raymond

#2 of 16 Kevin Stewart

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Posted March 31 2009 - 02:44 PM

1. If you're planning on spending that much money for the equipment and you want it to look/sound it's best, I'd probably concentrate on the actual build of the theater before considering equipment. Will you be building a riser? Stage? Columns? Soffit? Accoustic panels? What will the design scheme be? Fabric on walls? Paint? What color paints? Carpet? Wiring schematic? Shelf mounted projector? Ceiling mount? Sconces? To do it right, you need to spend a bit of time designing what you plan on doing to the room. Once you plan it out and then accomplish it, it could be several months before you're ready to buy equipment. In that time, many of the pieces of equipment you wanted to buy originally will be "last years model", and you'll have to start planning your equipment all over again. So, my best advice is to not plan on any specific equipment purchases until you're almost done with the "build" portion of the theater. Even expensive equipment can sound like crap if the room isn't right.
2. Unless you'll also be listening to 2 channel stereo, you probably don't need tower speakers for the fronts (your sub will be handling all the bass).
3. How many rows of seating will you have and what will be your seating distances? 160" is probably too big of a screen for that room. Assuming seating distances of around 12' and 18', you'll probably want to stay at 126" or less (160" is too big for 12' distance). Additionally, for an image that size, you'll need a high gain screen.
4. What is it you like about the Pio 07? Instead of the 05? 03? 01?
5. The Pio BDP-05FD is already an outdated model.
"the dream never dies, just the dreamer"

#3 of 16 Robert_J

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Posted March 31 2009 - 11:32 PM

Klipsch makes great speakers but their subs are not of the same value. You can get a better sub by going with one of the many internet direct sub companies that we recommend all of the time:
SVS
Elemental Designs
Hsu
Epik Subwoofers

-Robert

#4 of 16 RJCornine

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Posted April 01 2009 - 02:35 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Stewart
1. If you're planning on spending that much money for the equipment and you want it to look/sound it's best, I'd probably concentrate on the actual build of the theater before considering equipment. Will you be building a riser? Stage? Columns? Soffit? Accoustic panels? What will the design scheme be? Fabric on walls? Paint? What color paints? Carpet? Wiring schematic? Shelf mounted projector? Ceiling mount? Sconces? To do it right, you need to spend a bit of time designing what you plan on doing to the room. Once you plan it out and then accomplish it, it could be several months before you're ready to buy equipment. In that time, many of the pieces of equipment you wanted to buy originally will be "last years model", and you'll have to start planning your equipment all over again. So, my best advice is to not plan on any specific equipment purchases until you're almost done with the "build" portion of the theater. Even expensive equipment can sound like crap if the room isn't right.
2. Unless you'll also be listening to 2 channel stereo, you probably don't need tower speakers for the fronts (your sub will be handling all the bass).
3. How many rows of seating will you have and what will be your seating distances? 160" is probably too big of a screen for that room. Assuming seating distances of around 12' and 18', you'll probably want to stay at 126" or less (160" is too big for 12' distance). Additionally, for an image that size, you'll need a high gain screen.
4. What is it you like about the Pio 07? Instead of the 05? 03? 01?
5. The Pio BDP-05FD is already an outdated model.



thats for the reply.
1. I plan on building a 10" riser in the back for the rear set of seats (looking to have 8 seats total.. 2 sets of 4). a small stage up front. wanting to hold all the equiptment in the back of the theater. as far as walls they are painted a nice deep chocolate brown and was going to pretty much run with that. It has 4 sconces down the walls already but all the wiring would need to be run (not a big deal for me). Looking at a ceiling mount projector but it's not set in stone all depends on what screen i go with. Im not worried too much on the brightness because i have complete control of the lighting. I like the newer JVC DLA-RS20 projector but i just cannot justift paying 2 times the price for not all that much more. The reviews on it that i have read have said that it's not all the much better than the RS10.

2. As far as towers thats what the company recomended for me for the best sound.

3. Again just what was recomended to me by local dealer. I am not yet in the home still working on closeing so once in i can break out the ol' masking tape and get a visual of size to distance. Guy also told me the RS10 with the zoom would have no problem projecting that size image from less than 16 feet (i would have it further back).

4. The Elite 07 has 140watts rms per chan. and speakers are all rated above that rms. rears are 150rms.. then fronts are 250 etc. Sales guy recomended the 05 but it was 130watt rms.. figured extra 10 watts wouldnt hurt. Any other recomendations? I like pioneer for home audio so i have always planned to go with their receiver.

5. I didnt think it would be a big deal taht that blu-ray was semi-outdated. it still has the 1.3 hdmi out put on it so picture would still be great. If you could clear up whats outdated about it? I am new at blu-ray and am not 100% on what is different between 550$ 1.3hdmi output and $2000 1.3hdmi output?

#5 of 16 RJCornine

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Posted April 01 2009 - 02:38 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_J
Klipsch makes great speakers but their subs are not of the same value. You can get a better sub by going with one of the many internet direct sub companies that we recommend all of the time:
SVS
Elemental Designs
Hsu
Epik Subwoofers

-Robert

Really? I thought the Rt-12d sounded breath taking? Its 3 subs in one box 800watts rms, 2000 max. have you hurd this subwoofer? I will look into those brands you have stated above. thank you, RJCornine

#6 of 16 David Willow

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Posted April 01 2009 - 04:34 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJCornine
Really? I thought the Rt-12d sounded breath taking? Its 3 subs in one box 800watts rms, 2000 max. have you hurd this subwoofer? I will look into those brands you have stated above. thank you, RJCornine

Yes, heard a few of the Klispsch subs. No contest - My SVS wins by a mile.

4. An extra 10 watts will make absolutely no difference. It would take an additional 120 watts for you to hear a difference. The RMS for your speakers is the max, not the required or even optimal. Klispsch is very easy to drive - you get a lot for a little...

#7 of 16 Robert_J

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Posted April 01 2009 - 04:54 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJCornine
Its 3 subs in one box 800watts rms, 2000 max.
It is 1 active 12" driver and 2 passive radiators in a box. That is the same as having a driver and a pair of ports - link. Also, wattage doesn't impress me either. The Adaptive Room Correction sounds neat but I went with a manual approach of an SPL meter and parametric EQ. That allowed me to put more money into my DIY sub.

Don't fall for the marketing or some BS a saleperson is throwing at you. Ask questions here. Learn. Heck, I pick up new tricks all of the time and I've been here a little while.

-Robert

#8 of 16 RJCornine

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Posted April 01 2009 - 05:01 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_J
It is 1 active 12" driver and 2 passive radiators in a box. That is the same as having a driver and a pair of ports - link. Also, wattage doesn't impress me either. The Adaptive Room Correction sounds neat but I went with a manual approach of an SPL meter and parametric EQ. That allowed me to put more money into my DIY sub.

Don't fall for the marketing or some BS a saleperson is throwing at you. Ask questions here. Learn. Heck, I pick up new tricks all of the time and I've been here a little while.

-Robert
Thats why i joined and am happy that i stumbled upon the site. I would love to learn more before commiting to a purchase. Im looking to spend about 12,000 on speakers, blu ray, sub, reciever and the projector. It a modest budget and im trying to get the best possible for my money. The rest of the money will go into the seating and room. if it comes to 15,000 for speakers adn stuff than so be it. I just want to get something that is going to sound incredible and that i can be proud of. Thanks to all who have replied and any knowledge or opinions you have just put them out there. Im happy to learn.

#9 of 16 Robert_J

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Posted April 01 2009 - 11:22 AM

How handy are you with tools? Instead of buying a $1,000+ screen, I built one for $75. It looks better than anything I could get locally. There are paint formulas that rival some of the best high gain screens.

I also built my speakers and subs. The speakers were from published designs that received great reviews. My current sub is my own design including the dual 15" custom drivers. I'm upgrading to quad custom 18's.

Since you want your room to sound incredible, look into sound panels and bass traps. Again, you can build great looking and great functioning sound panels for around $20 each.

I always suggest DIY since I like building things. It also justifies a garage full of tools. It also lets me trade my time for extra money that goes into items I can't build like a receiver, projector and Blu-Ray. But if you are not handy, don't have tools or can earn more money with your time then you save with DIY then ignore this post.

-Robert

#10 of 16 Robert_J

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Posted April 01 2009 - 11:34 AM

Since you are building what sounds to be a full blown room, check out the Home Theaters and Projects section. Here's a couple of good threads:
http://www.hometheat....e-theater.html
http://www.hometheat....y-ht-room.html

#11 of 16 RJCornine

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Posted April 01 2009 - 11:38 AM

yea i love to DIY more satisfaction on it. I have looked into doing the acoustic panels on my own and planned on getting just the screen material and building the frame for it. im just trying to get all the speakers and whatnot to make my home theater sound better than a movie theater. I want the heart stoping bass and a nice picture to go along with it.

#12 of 16 gene c

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Posted April 01 2009 - 02:12 PM

Quote:
5. The Pio BDP-05FD is already an outdated model.
Quote:
5. I didnt think it would be a big deal taht that blu-ray was semi-outdated. it still has the 1.3 hdmi out put on it so picture would still be great. If you could clear up whats outdated about it? I am new at blu-ray and am not 100% on what is different between 550$ 1.3hdmi output and $2000 1.3hdmi output?
Things BluRay are changing really fast. The Elite 05 is a really good player but it's way over priced compared to what the compitition has out now. And the Pioneer 51 is almost identicle and can be had for under $300 from authorized on-line dealers.

Other BR players to consider are the Panasonic 80, the Samsung 2550 and OPPO is coming out with one in a few weeks that's supposed to be a real winner.

And Pioneer is releasing a couple of new models to replace the 05 and 51 sometime this Spring which means the 05 and 51 will begin to be harder to find while they close them out.

In short, there are many excellent BR players to choose from. Many with more features for a lower price. But the 05 is still a fine player. I'd have one myself if it supported DTS-MA thru the analog outs.
"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 


#13 of 16 CB750

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Posted April 03 2009 - 06:41 AM

Buying HT is much like buying a Digital Camera these days. In a Camera you want to focus of the best lenses you can afford. Camera bodies change and are up dated frequently and you will replace them every few years, but your lenses will last for years.

The same thing is true with HT if you substitute speaker for camera lens. If you want as you say

"I just want to get something that is going to sound incredible and that i can be proud of.

Then you are going to want to research and devote a significant portion of your budget to your speakers. If you get the ones you really like then they are going to last you for many years into the future. On the other hand look at all of your other components, receiver, projector, blue ray as the parts of your system that could or will become obsolete at some point in the future.

#14 of 16 RJCornine

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Posted April 04 2009 - 09:17 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CB750
Buying HT is much like buying a Digital Camera these days. In a Camera you want to focus of the best lenses you can afford. Camera bodies change and are up dated frequently and you will replace them every few years, but your lenses will last for years.

The same thing is true with HT if you substitute speaker for camera lens. If you want as you say

"I just want to get something that is going to sound incredible and that i can be proud of.

Then you are going to want to research and devote a significant portion of your budget to your speakers. If you get the ones you really like then they are going to last you for many years into the future. On the other hand look at all of your other components, receiver, projector, blue ray as the parts of your system that could or will become obsolete at some point in the future.

Thats exactly what i was thinking. And Klipsch speakers i choosen seemed to sound pretty good and i think they are a middle speaker (although so claim they are high end models). Way i look at things is no matter what you buy it was high end at some point. Only thing i have changed my mind on is the subwoofer. I have decided to go with the JL audio f113. I must say that is the best sub i have ever hurd. Very clear and the bass will leave you speachless. I wanted to get the 213 model but they wanted almost 9000$ for it. i can get the f113 for $2800 shipped each.. so if i needed 2 would still be well under the 213. but thanks again and i'll post pics as i begin my HT

#15 of 16 Robert_J

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Posted April 04 2009 - 11:52 PM

Do a Google search on 'craigsub rankings thread'. You will find a 50+ page thread at AVS (no direct links allowed to that site). He is an independent tester and ranks all of his subs on the same criteria.

Not to knock JL, they make a great product but they are definitely not the best value. I would look at the following:

SVS Ultra 13 - Internet direct so there is no middle man driving up the price. The founders, Tom and Ron, met on this site in the DIY section. These guys have a passion for subs. The driver was designed by Stephen Ponte, in my opinion on of the best transducer engineers in the audio business.

Epik Subwoofers - Another internet direct company. Chad Kuypers is also a member here. He makes a line of great products with something for everyone. His drivers come from Scott Atwell at Fi Car Audio. Scott is responsible for designing the most outrageous drivers in all of audio, the 78 pound Resonant Engineering XXX 18".

Elemental Designs - Their A7-350. It's not the biggest or loudest sub in their lineup but it does have a custom built, 15", underhung driver. Ben and his crew sometimes get bashed in the car audio forums about stuff that happened when the company first started back in the late 90's. The company has matured and this is a serious sub.

DIY - It's easy. For a fraction of the price of the JL, you can easily build something that will beat it in both output, extension and sound quality. It may not be as small but that is one sacrifice that most serious bass-heads make. Drivers from Exodus Audio (designed by Dan Wiggins) and AE Speakers (Designed by John Janowitz) would provide a solid foundation to any DIY sub. And if you can wait, Audiopulse (Thilo Stompler owner) should have their new drivers out soon.

If you aren't familiar with any of this, Google the companies as well as the names I dropped.

Finally, I am a bass nut. I have dual 15" custom drivers with titanium cones and neodymium magnets driven by a 2,400w professional amp. It's not enough. I'm building four custom 18" drivers (Scott Atwell provided the parts and advice) for an infinite baffle sub (Google it). I hope to achieve reference bass levels down to 10hz.

-Robert

#16 of 16 CB750

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Posted April 06 2009 - 10:53 AM

Given the money you are willing to spend if you don't get a great sounding system it will be your fault. When selecting speakers only three things matter. Listen, Listen, and Listen again, and buy what your ears tell you sound best.


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