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HD looking "too" digital?


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#1 of 13 OFFLINE   Sam E. Torres

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Posted July 03 2008 - 06:03 PM

Hey guys,

My roomate just bought a Samsung 46" LCD and I tried to set it up for him by running the THX Optimizer on one of the "Star Wars" standard DVDs (plugged in with components). I noticed that the film almost looks like it was shot by broadcast cameras. The camera movements remind me of something I thought I'd never see again...dare I say it, pan and scan.

When he watches digital cable broadcast at 720p (component again), it has the same problems, even if it's not in HD.

So my question is, is this a problem with the TV? Is this a component vs. HDMI issue?
I'm sorry if this has been posted before. I tried to do a search.

Moderators, give me a link to a similar thread if it exists.

Thanks!

#2 of 13 OFFLINE   Ed Moxley

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Posted July 04 2008 - 03:21 AM

Try an HDMI cable, and see if it's any better.
Some tvs look better with HDMI, and some look better with component. See if his likes HDMI better. You can get an HDMI cable at Wal Mart. No need to spend $100 for one.

Might also want to try some video calibration. Brand new tvs don't have the best looking pictures right out of the box. Most Disney dvds have a THX Optimizer calibrating area on them. Check it out.........
Good luck!
Samsung HL61A750 (LED DLP)            Onkyo TX-SR805
Oppo BDP-83 Blu ray                                  Polk Audio LSi9
Polk Audio LSiC                                  Sony SS-MB100H
SVS PC12-NSD (Sub)                       ...

#3 of 13 OFFLINE   GeorgeAB

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Posted July 04 2008 - 04:55 AM

Your roommate's first mistake was buying an LCD. He should take it back and trade it for a plasma or RPTV. LCDs all have problems with motion. The top of the line 120Hz models are a little better, but still lose resolution during program motion sequences. On 60Hz models (less expensive), resolution can drop as much as 60% during motion. There are also other problems with LCD panels in general, when comparing their image quality to other common technologies.

I don't recommend LCDs to my customers unless picture quality is a low priority, and they have a very specific reason for needing one- like seriously compromised viewing environment conditions. Do not be swayed by the increasing popularity of LCD flat panels. Picture quality is not the reason for their growing market share.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
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#4 of 13 OFFLINE   Ed Moxley

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Posted July 04 2008 - 05:38 AM

His roommate may be like me, and refuses to have a plasma in the house. If someone gives me one for free, I'll take it. But, I'll not spend hard earned money on one.

I despise the glass screen of a plasma. It reflects everything in the room so bad, like all the old CRTs. The new anti-glare screens aren't good enough either. Before, we didn't have a choice. Now we do. That, along with size availability, is why I'm gonna go with a DLP, when I can buy a new tv. Mainly going with DLP because they've quit making SXRD and D-ILA tvs, and I want a minimum of 60" screen.

I also see absolutely no sense in hanging a tv on the wall. That is a "designer" thing, instead of a practical thing. Ideal position is for center of tv screen, to be eye level, when sitting down.

Sorry to get a little off topic, but just as GeorgeAB doesn't recommend LCD, I don't recommend plasma, unless you're in an extremely dark room, with nothing in it, except the tv and your seat. Posted Image
Samsung HL61A750 (LED DLP)            Onkyo TX-SR805
Oppo BDP-83 Blu ray                                  Polk Audio LSi9
Polk Audio LSiC                                  Sony SS-MB100H
SVS PC12-NSD (Sub)                       ...

#5 of 13 OFFLINE   Alfonso_M

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Posted July 04 2008 - 06:43 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Moxley
I despise the glass screen of a plasma. It reflects everything in the room so bad, like all the old CRTs. The new anti-glare screens aren't good enough either. Before, we didn't have a choice. Now we do. That, along with size availability, is why I'm gonna go with a DLP, when I can buy a new tv. Mainly going with DLP because they've quit making SXRD and D-ILA tvs, and I want a minimum of 60" screen.

To each his own, At this stage of the game I wouldn't recommend a DLP to any one, good luck with the bulb replacing routine, expect to go through the hassle once a year on average..

I own a 50" Panny setup in a '
Florida' room with windows all around and I can see everything perfectly without rolling down the shades.(looks better with shades rolled down of course but..)

If you stand in front of the screen one can't hardly make out your own reflection. Glass is good, Glass keeps the screen safe from children and pets and is easy to clean.

LCD panels always had that "Digital" processed look to them, to me everything looks like 'CGI' animations, yes, very 'bright' colors that pop out you, but is this natural? Is this how "Film" should look like?? Is this how the world looks like through your window??

Apparently the latest marketing hype against "plasma" is that this consume "Lots" of electricity. Many people are falling for this line.

My Plasma is on like 8-12 hours a day., and I haven't been able to attribute any extra electrical expense to the Plasma. In any case, I prefer a better image (and viewing angle) even if I can shave $5.00 a year off my electric bill with an LCD screen.YMMV



#6 of 13 OFFLINE   Jesse Skeen

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Posted July 04 2008 - 11:49 AM

From the original description it sounds like you have one of the picture "enhancement" modes enabled- I've seen a lot of TVs in stores that make material shot on film look more like video. The effect is pretty amusing but of course that's not how it's supposed to look. I assume there's a way to turn it off.
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#7 of 13 ONLINE   Mark-P

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Posted July 04 2008 - 03:54 PM

You don't say which of the Star Wars DVDs you were viewing on it. If, by chance it was Episodes II or III, there is a good reason they don't look anything like film - There was no film as they were shot 100% digital.

#8 of 13 OFFLINE   MikeRS

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Posted July 04 2008 - 06:14 PM

I saw a Blu-ray demo at Best Buy.

Samsung 46" LCD.

Various clips from Batman Begins and Pirates 2.

Awful.

The Tumbler chase looked like an episode of "Cops" in HD (I am not exaggerating).The Kraken sequence from Pirates didn't resemble a cinematic image at all.

#9 of 13 OFFLINE   troy evans

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Posted July 04 2008 - 06:54 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfonso_M
Glass is good, Glass keeps the screen safe from children and pets and is easy to clean.

LCD panels always had that "Digital" processed look to them, to me everything looks like 'CGI' animations, yes, very 'bright' colors that pop out you, but is this natural? Is this how "Film" should look like?? Is this how the world looks like through your window??

Apparently the latest marketing hype against "plasma" is that this consume "Lots" of electricity. Many people are falling for this line.

My Plasma is on like 8-12 hours a day., and I haven't been able to attribute any extra electrical expense to the Plasma. In any case, I prefer a better image (and viewing angle) even if I can shave $5.00 a year off my electric bill with an LCD screen.YMMV

I agree. I own a Samsung plasma and have been consistently dazzled by the image and I'm using a 720p model. I don't say this lightly, I would take the Panny and Sammy 720p plasmas over the 1080p LCDs of any company any day. I've seen friends setup their LCDs with THX Optimizer and they look like shit to me. THX Optimizer just doesn't cut it anymore. You have to invest in an Avia or DVE calibration disc or foot the bill to get a pro to calibrate it.
" I think it's time we go to plan B". "What's plan B?" "That's the one where we don't do something stupid".

#10 of 13 OFFLINE   Nathan Eddy

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Posted July 06 2008 - 09:45 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Moxley
I despise the glass screen of a plasma. It reflects everything in the room so bad, like all the old CRTs. The new anti-glare screens aren't good enough either. Before, we didn't have a choice. Now we do. That, along with size availability, is why I'm gonna go with a DLP, when I can buy a new tv. Mainly going with DLP because they've quit making SXRD and D-ILA tvs, and I want a minimum of 60" screen.

Sorry to get a little off topic, but just as GeorgeAB doesn't recommend LCD, I don't recommend plasma, unless you're in an extremely dark room, with nothing in it, except the tv and your seat. Posted Image

As the proud owner of a new Panny plasma, I have to wholeheartedly disagree. I never see ANY reflections. Granted, I don't put a light directly behind my head, but my room is NOT dark, much less "extremely dark." I watch mine on the cinema setting (calibrated with Avia) which is much, much less bright than the other settings. If you want to crank it up to unnatural brightness like an LCD, you can. There's no reason why you can't get a plasma, unless you're watching movies in a room that you have no business watching movies in the first place (big window behind you, bright lights behind you, direct sunlight hitting you in the eye, etc.). That would be like complaining that external speakers are a rip-off because you can't listen to them next to an airport with the door and windows open . . . and thus advocating headphones only. If your viewing room is already this compromised, it's not the fault of the technology, but your own fault for trying to watch movies in such a ridiculous environment. Modern plasmas are a thing of beauty. The new anti-glare Panasonic screens work like a charm. Please, those of you reading, do NOT let uninformed opinions developed by only looking at TVs in a bright showroom sway you. Trust the people who actually own these products and watch them in realistic settings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark-P
You don't say which of the Star Wars DVDs you were viewing on it. If, by chance it was Episodes II or III, there is a good reason they don't look anything like film - There was no film as they were shot 100% digital.
Good point! Posted Image

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeAB
LCDs all have problems with motion. The top of the line 120Hz models are a little better, but still lose resolution during program motion sequences. On 60Hz models (less expensive), resolution can drop as much as 60% during motion.
From what Sam is describing, I'm not sure the smooth motion of the 120Hz would even be good enough. He described something close to "pan and scan," which is an artificially smooth motion. He's not describing judder or motion blur, which is what the 120s are developed to "correct." I think he just doesn't like the artificial look of LCDs, as others here have guessed.
07-04-2008 07:49 PM

#11 of 13 OFFLINE   Ed Moxley

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Posted July 06 2008 - 12:19 PM

Quote:
The new anti-glare Panasonic screens work like a charm. Please, those of you reading, do NOT let uninformed opinions developed by only looking at TVs in a bright showroom sway you. Trust the people who actually own these products and watch them in realistic settings.
It's not an uninformed opinion. It's what I've seen, with my own eyes! Seen in both store, and home settings. Glad it doesn't bother you, like it does me. Enjoy!
Like Alfonso M said.......to each his own.
Samsung HL61A750 (LED DLP)            Onkyo TX-SR805
Oppo BDP-83 Blu ray                                  Polk Audio LSi9
Polk Audio LSiC                                  Sony SS-MB100H
SVS PC12-NSD (Sub)                       ...

#12 of 13 OFFLINE   Nathan Eddy

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Posted July 06 2008 - 02:05 PM

Ed, of course, to each his own. However, "your own" includes such emotionally-charged language as "despise" and "refuse." Lots of people have spent $1000s on plasmas, yet you denigrate this choice by saying you would *only* take one for free . . . as if they had no worth whatsoever. That's a bit harsh. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect people to respond directly to an extreme position that, by it's language, explicitly and proudly articulates a refusal to acknowledge any worth in a popular technology with clear merits. You refuse to buy a plasma. I refuse to let such obstinate opinions be voiced on a public forum for a product that millions of people happily buy without voicing an equally strong, opinionated response. Especially when I see inherent inaccuracies in such an opinion. Nothing personal. I just feel sorry for people who read your post, and, through their own inexperience, take your word for it.

"Your own" seems like an emotional decision which is contrary to the evidence. Maybe you've seen some plasmas in a home. But I'm looking at mine right now with the lights on and I can't see any reflections. This isn't an issue of "to each his own." Any human being with working eyes can sit in my living room and watch my TV without seeing reflections . . . because there aren't any reflections. So it's not exactly as subjective as you make it sound (unless you're implying that I'm an inaccurate judge of my own perceptual experience). Either you were watching an inferior product, or watching it in inappropriate, unrealistic circumstances. Or you're wrong. I think people who are about to make a decision concerning how to spend 1000s of dollars should have the benefit of a direct rebuttal to what I felt was an unfair generalization of an entire display technology. Perhaps you could list the exact model and brand, if you are confident in this opinion and don't mind people checking it directly by trying to reproduce your experience with the same TV? Conversely, if anyone wants, I could post some pictures of my TV and we could play "find the reflections."

#13 of 13 OFFLINE   Ed Moxley

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Posted July 06 2008 - 04:39 PM

That's MY opinion, and how I feel about it.
You're welcome to your opinion, and how you feel about it. All anyone needs to do is see for yourself. I've never seen a plasma that doesn't reflect, including the anti-glare Panasonics. I've seen it! You're not going to convince me that I didn't, because I know I did.

I believe when someone feels strongly about something, and voices their dislike, it's understood you need to see for yourself. One mans treasure is another man's trash. Some people don't even consider the reflective nature, until they get it home, and suddenly realize it. A few people would return it, but most people won't. They'll live with it. Since I do voice strong opinion about it, maybe someone will say, "I better check this out better. Can I live with that?" Some LCDs also have reflective screens, but not all of them, so there's a choice. I admit plasmas have a very nice picture. But I can't handle the screen. My 36" CRT drives me crazy, with the reflections. The picture is great, but I'll be rid of it as soon as I can.............

I'm not going to argue with you about this. You can't tell me I didn't see something that I did. So, you tell folks your opinion of plasmas, and I'll tell mine. Then they can check it out for themselves. Do you buy or not buy something, from one review of it?
Samsung HL61A750 (LED DLP)            Onkyo TX-SR805
Oppo BDP-83 Blu ray                                  Polk Audio LSi9
Polk Audio LSiC                                  Sony SS-MB100H
SVS PC12-NSD (Sub)                       ...


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