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UCLA student gets tasered and no to very little media attention


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#1 of 76 OFFLINE   TV555

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Posted November 19 2006 - 02:43 PM



This kids clearly got a chip on his shoulder, but this is some serious BS IMO.

I would have gotten tasered to after I started confronting the police about it. Notice all the students watching and protesting fromt he beginning.

The Chancellor said he should have complied, but quickly took that statement back supposedly w/i hours.

A bunch of conservative and liberal crappers have decided this is their crux for their own personal agendas.

I am shocked that OJ and Tom and what'shername's wedding is what the news is about.

As a student it pisses me off and frankly the fact that he's Irani makes me feel for him considering the last 4 years.

Here's Olberman's interviews. Click on the video.
Get to see Mari Menounos (hottie) as well.



Some places think he deserved more and is completely acting.

edited - I put the same video twice.

#2 of 76 OFFLINE   Henry Gale

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Posted November 19 2006 - 03:06 PM

This will make for an interesting discussion about being passive vs. resisting arrest.
But, that interesting discussion will happen somewhere else.
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#3 of 76 OFFLINE   Adam Lenhardt

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Posted November 19 2006 - 04:56 PM

That's a nice campus...

#4 of 76 OFFLINE   Paul D G

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Posted November 19 2006 - 08:20 PM

I heard about it on the news. How much coverage were you expecting?

The kid was an idiot. If the cops tell you to do something, you do it. From what I understand the cops asked for his student ID or something that would have demonstrated he had a legit reason to be in the library, he refused. The police started to remove him, he resisted, struggle, forced compliance.

If the kid DID have an ID and valid reason to be there he should have presented it. If you argue with the cops you're just asking for trouble.

BTW, Google News "UCLA taser student" and a few hundred articles pop up. That's a lot more than 'no media coverage'.

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#5 of 76 OFFLINE   David Williams

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Posted November 19 2006 - 08:48 PM

I have zero sympathy for the kid. They have been having a problem with crime on campus and the student body was put on alert to show ID. They could have tackled him I guess, but he probably would have suffered greater injuries and it might have started a riot. The person to take up your issue with showing ID is the Dean of the University, not the Police officer who is doing his job.
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#6 of 76 OFFLINE   Dheiner

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Posted November 19 2006 - 10:10 PM

What a freaking maroon. What part of "stand up or you'll get tasered again" is unclear? IMHO, he deserved everything that happened to him in the video.
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#7 of 76 OFFLINE   Henry Gale

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Posted November 19 2006 - 11:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Gale
This will make for an interesting discussion about being passive vs. resisting arrest.
But, that interesting discussion will happen somewhere else.



Oh, O.K.....no idea this would survive all night.

I was not in the room during that video, but I got the distinct impression that the young man was being shocked for not cooperating.
And, bunches of people think that's good.
There is a legal right not to assist in your own arrest. This is different than resisting.
Remember the lunch counter sit ins of the early 60s?
Well, maybe you saw the videos.
No, they weren't widescreen.
Those folks practiced Ghandian passive resistance. Apparently some of you would have tasered them away from the counters.
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#8 of 76 OFFLINE   Christ Reynolds

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Posted November 20 2006 - 01:05 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Gale
There is a legal right not to assist in your own arrest.
where is there more information about this?

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#9 of 76 OFFLINE   mattCR

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Posted November 20 2006 - 02:49 AM

No sympathy for the kid. Thank god for tasers. For the most part, it's a quick way to prevent a situation from escalating to where a police officer or others could get hurt. It stops the situation cold with (for the most part) very little % wise long term negatives.
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#10 of 76 OFFLINE   Scott L

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Posted November 20 2006 - 02:58 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dheiner
What a freaking maroon. What part of "stand up or you'll get tasered again" is unclear? IMHO, he deserved everything that happened to him in the video.
+1

#11 of 76 OFFLINE   LewB

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Posted November 20 2006 - 03:10 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dheiner
What a freaking maroon. What part of "stand up or you'll get tasered again" is unclear? IMHO, he deserved everything that happened to him in the video.
Isn't the taser supposed to incapacitate you and bring you to your knees ? If he's not getting up in the first place, how is 'tasering' him again going to get him standing up ?
I saw this video on Keith Olberman's show and the kid is claiming they picked him out because he is of middle-eastern descent.

#12 of 76 OFFLINE   Chu Gai

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Posted November 20 2006 - 03:12 AM

Seems like he's getting an education in how to play the cards.

#13 of 76 OFFLINE   MandyHan

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Posted November 20 2006 - 03:21 AM

I had a friend tasered during a celebration during the MIchigan Ohio State game (when we actually won one). It really f'd him up.

#14 of 76 OFFLINE   Jeff Gatie

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Posted November 20 2006 - 03:30 AM

Quote:
As a student it pisses me off and frankly the fact that he's Irani makes me feel for him considering the last 4 years.

Why? Has there been some campaign against Iranian students in the US that we have not heard about? From what I understand about Iranian politics, the students are the ones the US is befriending due to them having fairly liberal and democratic views and a general loathing of the theocracy set up by their religious leaders. I don't know if this student adhered to those beliefs, but I certainly would not say it is that bad being an Iranian student in the US. Since you seem to have reason to think this man was persecuted, perhaps you could steer me towards evidence of other persecution towards students of Iranian descent?

#15 of 76 OFFLINE   Carlo Medina

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Posted November 20 2006 - 04:31 AM

The rules were this: after 11pm, Powell Library is restricted to only students. This is for their safety and students knew about the rules (they are posted). This kid repeatedly refused to show his ID to a CSO (Community Service Officer - students who work as a non-interventionary arm of the UCPD). The CSO went to get the UCPD. That much is agreed upon by both sides.

It is at this point that the stories diverge. The UCPD say he hadn't left the library when they arrived, the kid says he was in the process of leaving. The UCPD say they began to escort him out when he started yelling and inciting others to resist as well. The kid says as he was heading out the UCPD grabbed him by the arm at which point he yelled at them to let him go.

The rest you can see on the youtube videos.

BTW - they used the lowest setting on the taser, called "drive stun". A taser at full blast can incapacitate, but from what I understand the drive stun setting acts more like a cattle-prod/compliance mechanism.

My own opinion, the kid had his whole spiel ready to go (political diatribe about certain governmental policies and police abuse) and I'm thinking that when you get shocked, you don't really have time to think about that kind of thing. You're just thinking "OWWWW!". There is not a history of police brutality on this campus. I've met quite a few of them in and around UCLA/Westwood Village and they really talk fondly of their jobs and the kids they protect. UCLA has had problems with sexual predators (gropers, etc.) and the UCPD really took that seriously and worked with the community to increase awareness and safety. It's not like south-central L.A., the UCPD really know the campus, students, faculty, staff and administrators really well here, they are part of the community.

This is not to say that the officers did not use excessive force, but you have to take the fact that the video does not show what happened to precipitate the incident, only the end-result.

Put it this way, with the rash of school shootings around the country (regardless of race), could the police simply just play it safe with someone who refuses to produce ID when requested? Especially in a place where it is known that you will have to show ID (remember in this library it was a known policy and ID checks happen every night after 11pm)?

In hindsight, he wasn't armed, but there is no way the officers could have known that ahead of time. What if the reverse happened? What if the CSO never gets the UCPD, and then something bad happens? Have to think of both sides of the story before jumping the gun and blaming the cops, IMO.

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#16 of 76 OFFLINE   TV555

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Posted November 20 2006 - 04:34 AM

Well I heard from a girl (same highschool) I know at UCLA that he was not willing to show his ID to the library staff despite having been there for many hours. He said they needed to ask a couple of the white guys for their ID's in order to prove they were not singling him out. He waited around and finished his work and then the cops showed up. This is the chip on his shoulder I was referring to.

I don't think many of you have experience with Taser.
One good blast will incapacitate you. You do not immediately recover and standup. 5 blasts is for a drugged up giant of a man.

If the enforcement had not gone too far, why did all those students get up and start demanding the officer's badge numbers?
What threat did this kid present?
The second they touched him he started yelling to make sure everyone saw what was going on and then he fell to the floor limp. A limp guy on the floor is not a threat.
Remember this is obviously a 20 year old kid w/ a bookbag who has been in the library for a while.

The way I see it is if the media went berserk over the potential rape of a black woman by LAX members at Duke, then this should have gotten more than a footnote.
I feel it's being swept under the floor.

Also, I travel regularly and rarely get searched. I had a Pakistani friend of mine buy our tickets to Chicago and we got searched the whole way there and back, randomly of course. I kind of get how this profiling would cause a chip on one's shoulder.

I personally do not understand why people think he deserved that response.
I also think the Patriot Act is BS, but let's stay off that b/c that's more political.

Carlo,
Go find a police or security officer and try the lowered setting direct to skin as they did.

#17 of 76 OFFLINE   Carlo Medina

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Posted November 20 2006 - 04:52 AM

Quote:
I feel it's being swept under the floor.
1) it's not being swept under the floor, it's making huge news here in L.A. and UCLA specifically. This shouldn't, IMO, be headline national news. There's more important stories than this.

Quote:
I don't think many of you have experience with Taser.
2) Have you been tasered? Or are you saying we don't have experience so any opinion we have is invalid vs. your opinion despite you not being tasered as well? All I'm reciting is what various news outlets have said about the drive stun setting. I can proudly say that I haven't been tasered, but if you have, please enlighten us as to your first-hand experience (and remember, not all tasers are the same, the ones the UCPD used were purchased in 2004 and may have different settings than any you might have been hit with).
Quote:
If the enforcement had not gone too far, why did all those students get up and start demanding the officer's badge numbers?
3. Because students at universities always feel like they're entitled to those things. I've been a member of the UCLA community as a student then staff for 15 years and students will ask for ID/badge numbers/etc. if you give them a parking ticket they don't think they deserved.
Quote:
What threat did this kid present?
4. What kind of threat did the Columbine shooters present before the incident? Or any other random school shooters beforehand? If cops knew beforehand if people presented a threat or not, there would never be school violence. What are they supposed to be, Nostradamuses? It's simple, the policy was you show ID after 11pm. That's not a secret. He did not comply.

5. The thing your female friend told you is the first that we've heard of this. By the way, on the youtube video you can clearly see one of the students who actually works for me on campus (he sits right outside my office) and he's heard nothing of the sort and was there for the whole event.

Quote:
Carlo,
Go find a police or security officer and try the lowered setting direct to skin as they did.
6. Aside from adding nothing to the strength of your argument (or to this discussion) again I ask: have you been tasered? By the same type of weapon and setting? If so, please enlighten. If you haven't, then please drop this line of discussion.

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#18 of 76 OFFLINE   Nathan*W

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Posted November 20 2006 - 04:55 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by TV555
I don't think many of you have experience with Taser.
One good blast will incapacitate you. You do not immediately recover and standup. 5 blasts is for a drugged up giant of a man.
Untrue. The taser like any electrical current is either on or off. If it is on, muscular responses are incapacitated, if they are off, an individual has full muscular control.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TV555
If the enforcement had not gone too far, why did all those students get up and start demanding the officer's badge numbers?
What threat did this kid present?
Because college students are indoctrinated to question all representations of authority. Police officers are trained enter unpredictable situations and assert control. The time to question that authority is at trial, not in the midst of a situation, and certainly by onlooker students who have nothing else to contribute.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TV555
The second they touched him he started yelling to make sure everyone saw what was going on and then he fell to the floor limp.
Just like any other media hound.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TV555
A limp guy on the floor is not a threat.
A limp guy on the floor is an unknown.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TV555
Remember this is obviously a 20 year old kid w/ a bookbag who has been in the library for a while.
I hate to say it, but so are suicide bombers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TV555
Go find a police or security officer and try the lowered setting direct to skin as they did.
Most police departments require officers who carry a taser to also be shocked by it, so I'm not quite sure what your point is?
 

#19 of 76 OFFLINE   Carlo Medina

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Posted November 20 2006 - 05:02 AM

Quote:
Also, I travel regularly and rarely get searched. I had a Pakistani friend of mine buy our tickets to Chicago and we got searched the whole way there and back, randomly of course. I kind of get how this profiling would cause a chip on one's shoulder.
I forgot to address this point. So it seems like (and hoping to avoid locking of this thread here) that an element of racial profiling is filtering into your argument.

Let me say this: you must have little idea of the racial profile of UCLA. Minorities are the majority here. By far. And yes, that includes a large segment of students from Muslim/Middle Eastern countries. The area of Westwood Blvd just south of Wilshire (less than a mile from campus) is referred to as Little Tehran because of all of the Iranian/Persian restaurants and shops.

If UCPD (who patrol UCLA and Westwood) really were racially profiling Middle Eastern/Muslim students/people, we would have had a huge problem way before now.

One thing I can proudly say about UCLA, our diversity is our strength. Sure, racism/racial profiling can happen anywhere, but it is not a system-wide problem in the UCPD's case for sure.

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#20 of 76 OFFLINE   Chuck Mayer

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Posted November 20 2006 - 05:39 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by TV555
I also think the Patriot Act is BS, but let's stay off that b/c that's more political.

Carlo,
Go find a police or security officer and try the lowered setting direct to skin as they did.

No main rebuttal to Carlo except to recommend he gets tasered? And if you don't want to bring up the Patriot Act (which is completely irrelevant to this case)...why bring it up???

Anyways, yet again, someone who has never been in that situation, but quick to judge those who have.

The kid should have complied and dealt with any perceived biases later. Rules were rules. And I agree that he clearly wanted attention, so I am glad he got it.
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