UCLA student gets tasered and no to very little media attention (1 Viewer)

[Chu Gai]

Certainly the LA Times is capable of providing more information than that!

 

[Carlo_M]

Don't know if he can sue the U. (obviously he can, since you could "sue a ham sandwich" if he wanted to). I mean I don't know if he would win it.

From what I understand, the UCPD is an arm of the LAPD, which serves the UCLA community. I don't think they (the U) have any leverage or authority to suggest discipline or firing of a UCPD officer, that's the UCPD's (and by extension the LAPD) jurisdiction.

So sure, he could and probably will sue the U, but chances are if he wins, he will win vs. the LAPD/UCPD and not vs. UCLA. The UCPD is not UCLA's private police force.

 

[Paul Padilla]

That's two. One where action was taken against the officer and another where the accuser was actually prosecuted and convicted. Where are these "few other complaints" because they are not in the linked article. Even still, I don't find it hard to believe that authority figures have regular complaints in a college campus atmosphere where both age and environment are spurring people to question the establishment.

I agree that officers have to be held to a high standard, but what about our own civic responsibility? The student certainly does have obligations such as to obey rules of which he has been made keenly aware. I don't see the pitch fork wielding villagers who would have the officer's head acknowledging that the student just should have provided ID as he certainly knew was his responsibility, or simply left when politely asked. If he had, all of this would have been avoided. No, he chose to take the hard way under the guise of "I'm being singled out because of race." If this policy has been in effect as long and publicized as much as has been outlined in this thread, he had no grounds to believe the ID request had an ulterior motive.

 

[Holadem]

I don't know who your lumping under the "pitch fork wielding villagers" moniker, but it has been noted in this thread by people who disagreed with the officer's actions that Ahmadinejad Tabatabainejad was an idiot. It's also quite irrelevant.

--
H

 

[Magnus_M]

Again, this reflects on the overuse-issue, there has been several cases where cops have used their tasers against sick people as they just assumed they were drunk or high.

At least one case involved a diabetic when they responded to a 911 request for an ambulance at that location, confusion and irritability are some symptoms when you're about to slip in a diabetic coma and not only something that a drunk/high individual might do.
Seeing how the caller stated that the individual was a) diabetic and b) in need of an ambulance this should be something known to the arriving officers, if not there is a severe lack in information between 911 and the police.

And as several "drunks" have gotten tasered in doubtful situations in the past there is a real risk with using the taser to frequently.
I realise that cops have a difficult task having to decide on the spot if an individual is a threat or not, but even so the taser is being used as a complement the handcuffs.
Many taser cases could be solved by overpowering or talking down individuals, though it seem that it's much easier to let the electricity do the job.

Just to be clear, I am pro taser and have no problem with the police (those I know and meet have all been great people).
My beef is with using it in situations which could be solved without that kind of force.
Basic elimination is fairly easy and fast, if the suspect is armed with a firearm it's clear cut, use the gun.
If the suspect has a knife or a baseball bat (or similar) use pepper spray or taser, the same is true if someone is acting in a apparent violent manor.
Shouting profanitys and making noise is annoying, but unless that individual is waiving around or kicking there's no need for any weapon aside from possibly the nightstick.

On a sidenote:
The main reason why the swedish police aren't allowed to carry tasers is the overuse issue in the US, that unfortunately means that people have died as there wasn't a non lethal alternative avaivible.
This is tragic as they are equipped with expanding ammo that's more likely to kill it's target instead of just disabling them.
Should there not have been an issue about this my guess is that they too would have had tasers by now, then again it's pretty much a political issue and decisions from 'above' aren't exactly quick and painless.

 

[Paul D G]

Two are two issues here:

1) Were the police justified in escalating the event. Absolutely.

2) Should they have used tasers or something else to subdue the guy and get him out of there. I don't know. I certainly don't have a problem with tasers, but I can understand that others might. As another poster pointed out they could have jumped the guy and being tasered is certainly better than reconstuctive surgery. No doubt he was feeling fine a few minutes afterwards, being jumped would mean pain for days or hospitalization. Someone pointed out that people have died from tasers. Well, people have died from rubber bullets and bean bag shots as well and they're designed to be non lethal. People can die from anything if the conditions are right.

Finally, earlier there was discussion that two cops could "easily" carry the guy out. That's just not true. I used to work nights in a hotel in a university town a block off the main party street. I've seen plenty of action and for a while not a week went by where we didn't have to call the cops for some indicident or another. We had a drunk non-guest who was pitching a hissy fit because we wouldn't let him cash a check (our policy for non-guests). Cops were called; turns out the idiot was on parole so they were going to take him in. As soon as he heard that he tried to make a break for it. The two cops grabbed him but in the end I had to help them hold him down to get the plastic straps on him. Only THEN were they "easily" able to pick up the guy and throw him in the backseat.

-paul

 

[Chu Gai]

My understanding is that Sweden, UK, and Finland have approved the use of tasers. I don't think that means that all officers will be equipped with them just as not all officers in the US are. After the UCLA incident, I've changed my stock recommendation from hold to buy. Expect strong growth as other countries in Europe and elsewhere adopt the technology.

USC's Daily Trojan recently weighed in on this which I found interesting as it took a position I'd not expected. http://www.dailytrojan.com/media/sto...ailytrojan.com

 

[JeremyErwin]

It's an op-ed piece, not an editorial. There's a difference.

But so what? The university should be a place where all reasoned opinion is welcomed.

 

[Chu Gai]

Assuming the following isn't phonied up somehow, we have the following two screenshots of Mostapha's tribenet info...

Before


If you can't read it, among other things it says...
Interests
"I like to take simple problems and find the most difficult way to do them. i have a talent, what can i say."

Favorite Quotes:
"that hurts, stop it" - shahab

About Me:
i am currently having a early life crisis. i can't seem to make decisions, it'll pass, i hope. i need to play soccer, when i don't i become another person. its like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, weird i know.

Presently


Favorite Quotes:
"under a government which imprisons any justly, the true place for a just man is in a prison". - Henry David Thoreau

About Me:
i'm a simple man. i like school and soccer. throw in some persian poetry and politics and i'm golden. did i mention that i love delicious food.


Somehow, after the tasing incident, he appears to be a new man. Still likes Dr. Seuss though.

 

[TV555]

Chu,
Would you care to elaborate what your newly presented evidence means to this discussion which I'd like to best call an excercise in civic responsibility?

What are you trying to point out?

 

[JeremyErwin]

A desperate attempt to gain a ninth friend? Sometimes, there's such as thing as overanalysis?

And so what if the myspace page has changed? People change. Closure is a myth.

 

[Carl Miller]

My best friend is a narcotics detective in Brooklyn, and has been NYPD for 16 years.

We were talking about this incident today, and he felt the officers involved made no reasonable effort to diffuse the situation. He understood the initial use of the taser to take control of the situation, and felt it justified.

He usually bristles when civilians make nonchalant statements about how the police should have done this or that, or could have done such and such. I'm quite sure the statement here about how the officers could have easily carried this guy down the stairs would make my friend shake his head in disgust and say that anyone who says this has no idea what it's like to be a police officer and can't possibly even imagine how doing something like that places the police officers life and safety at unncessary risk.

Having said that, he said his training would have called for cuffing this guy, searching him, putting him down on his stomach on the ground and then attempts to calm this guy down should have been made, even if it took significant time to do so. He felt the behavior of these officers was unprofessional, excessive and absurd. Particularly tasing the guy, and then within seconds after doing that, yelling at him to get up.

He likened these actions on the part of the officers to that of a parent who hits his/her child because the child won't stop crying, thereby hurting the child and making the child cry even more.

I tend to be very sympathetic to the police when issues where police behavior is called into question, but I totally agree with my friend on this.

 

[Chu Gai]

Simply pointing out something interesting Tom. Maybe in the same vein as how the LATimes was quick to dig up information regarding the officer(s) in question. If we're going to speculate, I'd think the information presented before it was changed wouldn't play so well in a civil suit. Do you?

 

[Jeff Gatie]

He also still refuses to get a job. At least he sticks to his convictions in that area.

 

[Chu Gai]

Well to be fair he's a student and perhaps is in no need of seeking employment for whatever reason.

 

[Joe S.]

Paul,

For #1, we don't have evidence either way (the film really starts at the first tasing, we don't see the escalation.) I think it is reasonable to say that the guy was becoming problematic and something needed to be done to cool the situation off. Tasing neccesary? Don't know, but I could see the case made (well) that it was justified.

For #2, the issue isn't that they should have manhandled him to the ground and wrestled to get cuffs on him. The issue is that after he was initially tased AND cuffed, he was then tased at least 3-4 more times on the ground. The initial takedown may have been warranted, but how can you defend tasing someone handcuffed and prone again, again, again, and again because they won't "get up"? To use your example, it took 2 cops and you to subdue one guy and get him on the ground. How many times did the cops need to kick him AFTER he was prone and cuffed to carry him to the car? If it is more than zero, it was unjustified. All you need do at that point is wait until the person calms down or you get enough people to carry him away (as mentioned, time is then on your side.)

Once someone is prone and cuffed, it is over. If you need to keep tasing them after that, it IS a problem and I just can't see how anyone here can make the case that it is justified (in this case or others.)