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Reviews on the same title on BR and HD-DVD


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9 replies to this topic

#1 of 10 ppltd

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Posted September 28 2006 - 12:30 PM

It is nice to see that some titles are now being released on both formats, and the reviewers seem to be generally agreeing that the quality between the two format's titles has little difference. Still waiting for Widescreen Review to review a dual released title. Couldn't find any.

Quote:
However, if nothing else, 'Lethal Weapon 2' offers more evidence that, all things being equal, Blu-ray can deliver quality on par with HD DVD.

Quote:
(Fugitive) This Blu-ray release, though an equal with its HD DVD counterpart, doesn't deliver a huge upgrade over the standard DVD release.

Quote:
Warner has produced a solid Blu-ray release for 'Space Cowboys,' with a very good transfer and soundtrack......

Now for my question. I have read, while not necessarily fully agreeing with, that 1080p gives BR the edge. If this is so, will we notice an improvement in the HD-DVD releases when they are viewed on a 1080p player?

Thomas Eisenmann
Thomas Eisenmann(Last updated 09/30/11)

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#2 of 10 Rob Zuber

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Posted September 28 2006 - 01:50 PM

I really would expect the picture quality potential of the two formats to be equal. They both store bits on an optical disk.

These are the movies that you can currently find reviews of on both formats:

Blazing Saddles
Firewall
Fugitive, The
Full Metal Jacket
Good Night, and Good Luck
Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang
Lethal Weapon
Rumor Has It
Swordfish
Training Day

Those reviews are listed somewhere among these sites:
DVD Talk
DVD Town
DVD File
The Man Room
Home Theater Forum
Home Theater Spot

#3 of 10 Cees Alons

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Posted September 28 2006 - 11:09 PM

Quote:
I have read, while not necessarily fully agreeing with, that 1080p gives BR the edge.
Not over 1080i.
Both images, certainly if from a HD disc, are the same. Currently, most display systems (TVs) are 1080i (which is bound to change in the future).


Cees

#4 of 10 ppltd

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Posted September 29 2006 - 12:14 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cees Alons
Not over 1080i.
Both images, certainly if from a HD disc, are the same. Currently, most display systems (TVs) are 1080i (which is bound to change in the future).


Cees
I think the point I was trying to make,poorly it looks like, is this. Given a 1080p display that accepts 1080p native, if the reasoning is right that the player that sends 1080p vrs. the player that sends 1080i should be the better image, the early reviews are not bearing that out.

I have personally felt the whole 1080p/i was a red herring, but if it isn't, then the current HD's vrs BR that have equal quality images should show an improvement on HD when 1080p players are released.

Thomas Eisenmann
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#5 of 10 Bob Black

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Posted September 29 2006 - 12:33 AM

That's possible with a display that accepts 1080P natively. However, the Samsung BD player does NOT output 1080P natively - it upconverts the signal (and with a supposed faulty chip no less) and thus offers no advantage over HD-DVD. The upcoming Toshiba HD-XA2 will output full 1080P and offer HDMI 1.3, so there will be no difference between the formats aside from the strikingingly better overall quality of the HD-DVD discs.

#6 of 10 Cees Alons

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Posted September 29 2006 - 12:36 AM

Thomas,

If the player sends 1080i, then the display should be able to accept that (and create the original image), while if the player sends 1080p, the display should likewise accept that.
If the display cannot possibly accept the signal that's sent to it, you won't see a degradation of the image, but no proper image at all.

Only if questionable conversion is going on somewhere (e.g. inside the TV), then the images could potentially differ.
(There won't be a "questionable" conversion inside the HD player: it will simply and correctly decode the outgoing image according to its setting, if it can do so: 1080i or 1080p; or else that setting will not be there).

But 1080i-player -> 1080i-TV vs 1080p-player -> 1080p-TV will be moot: the images should be totally equal.

So inherently there's no advantage of one over the other, unless some bad conversion is going on.


Cees

#7 of 10 Robert Crawford

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Posted September 29 2006 - 01:05 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Black
That's possible with a display that accepts 1080P natively. However, the Samsung BD player does NOT output 1080P natively - it upconverts the signal (and with a supposed faulty chip no less) and thus offers no advantage over HD-DVD. The upcoming Toshiba HD-XA2 will output full 1080P and offer HDMI 1.3, so there will be no difference between the formats aside from the strikingingly better overall quality of the HD-DVD discs.
Not entirely true about the HD-XA2. It will do the same upconvert as the Samsung. Also, what do you mean that the chip is faulty in the Samsung? Are you talking about the DNR being activated and causing a softer picture?




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#8 of 10 Dave>h

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Posted September 29 2006 - 01:25 AM

Not sure if this is slightly off topic but...

If the quality of the Blu Ray presentation at 1080i or 1080p is identical to the HD DVD presentation at 1080i or 1080p, then this war will be fought based on price and content, no? At least at the consumer level. However, at the manufacturer level, which format is cheaper to produce? Which is the easier format to create disks on? Anyone know the answer?

If the war will be fought based on price and content, Blu ray clearly has the edge on content (although they need to start rolling this stuff out!) and HD DVD clearly has the edge on price. As it has been said, movies will win this war and given what we are hearing and seeing about the neglible differences in presentation, I am starting to believe this. Content is indeed King.

I dove into HD DVD figuring I was getting an excellent cd player and up converting DVD player that played HD content for relatively little money. And this has proven to be very true. I have finally gotten to use my HDTV for its intended purpose and I am very impressed with the results. I am loving the picture quality from both SD DVD and HD DVD on my TV (SAMSUNG 61" DLP) through the HD A1. My frustration is lack of content.

I want the Fifth Element, I want Star Wars, I want Indiana Jones. And a whole multitude of other disks. I am willing to double dip for some titles given the improved picture quality and lossless sound formats. I am sure that everyone who has taken the initial plunge does too, whichever side of the fence you fall.

I just keep repeating in my head "Patience is a virtue. Patience is a virtue..."

I guess my point is, the winner of this war will win because:

1) The consumer thinks the price is right and they are getting value
2) There is adequate content that is an improvement over the current content - and I am thinking this will be a tough sell to most consumers.
3) The manufacturing and authoring of content is cheap enough and easy enough (or better, cheaper and easier than it is with SD DVD) to warrant studios and manufacturers switching to either or both formats.
4) Profit margins on the new format are an improvement or on par with SD DVD (after all they are just recycling their profits here), find a new way to sell us the same stuff again.

My $0.02...

Dave

#9 of 10 ppltd

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Posted September 29 2006 - 02:43 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cees Alons
Thomas,

If the player sends 1080i, then the display should be able to accept that (and create the original image), while if the player sends 1080p, the display should likewise accept that.
If the display cannot possibly accept the signal that's sent to it, you won't see a degradation of the image, but no proper image at all.

Only if questionable conversion is going on somewhere (e.g. inside the TV), then the images could potentially differ.
(There won't be a "questionable" conversion inside the HD player: it will simply and correctly decode the outgoing image according to its setting, if it can do so: 1080i or 1080p; or else that setting will not be there).

But 1080i-player -> 1080i-TV vs 1080p-player -> 1080p-TV will be moot: the images should be totally equal.

So inherently there's no advantage of one over the other, unless some bad conversion is going on.


Cees

So for my understanding, it is not the output of the players, but rather the quality of the chips that do the conversion. Both disks are stored at 1080p 24, and one way or another, that hs to be deinterlased to 1080i, 3-2 added, and reinterlaced (think that is a word...) to 1080p. The current status is where that is done, in the player or the monitor.

Now, to add a slight curve. If the output (for film) were 1080p 24, and the monitor could handle it, would we see less artifacts in the image.

Thanks to all for the answers. It is a nice to pick up some knowedge on this, as it has always confused me a little.

Thomas Eisenmann
Thomas Eisenmann(Last updated 09/30/11)

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#10 of 10 Sean Bryan

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Posted September 29 2006 - 03:12 AM

Quote:
Both disks are stored at 1080p 24, and one way or another, that hs to be deinterlased to 1080i, 3-2 added, and reinterlaced (think that is a word...) to 1080p.

Well, actually the data is interlaced to 1080i. The Samsung then deinterlaces back to 1080p (how well it does this is something others can speak to). Ideally players can (and I'm certain future players will) be able to output the native data at 1080p (24 or 60 depending on what your monnitor can accept) without having to convert to something else first (other than the frame rate from 24 to 60 if your monitor requires that).


Quote:
I have read, while not necessarily fully agreeing with, that 1080p gives BR the edge. If this is so, will we notice an improvement in the HD-DVD releases when they are viewed on a 1080p player?

Just to clarify, as you know the software for both formats are mastered in 1080p24. Whether or not any specific player outputs 1080i or 1080p (or does "p" properly) is an individual issue for each player (BD or HD DVD). It is not format specific and BD marketing has misrepresented this issue because the first HD DVD player output 1080i only while the first BD player did 1080p (though this only after decoded in 1080i internally first).
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