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My X-Files dilemma, Agent Scully


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#21 of 37 OFFLINE   Holadem

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Posted August 30 2006 - 07:05 AM

Man, thank you for starting this thread. I just recently started watching this show, and have the exact same issue, as I posted in another thread:
-- H

#22 of 37 OFFLINE   HowardPaul

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Posted August 30 2006 - 07:39 AM

This is precisely the point I was trying to make. But, you said it better! How

#23 of 37 OFFLINE   Justin O

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Posted August 30 2006 - 09:03 AM

But it's such a lovely ass.

#24 of 37 OFFLINE   Janie111

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Posted August 30 2006 - 03:15 PM

I am new to this forum. I am very glad to be here and to see this interesting thread with varied veiwpoints. The thread made me go back and watch the episode mentioned, namely, Lazarus. I must confess that Scully is even more boneheaded than 'normal' in Lazarus. Let me present what happens before her very eyes: 2 people die at the same time and are in the ER together. One is a good friend of Scully's, an FBI agent and the other is a murderer. Attempts are made to resuscitate both but only the FBI agent survives. Or, is it the FBI agent?! Well, it is soon evident that instead of shooting with his right hand, he now uses his left hand. Instead of writing with his right hand he writes lefty. And, his signature is identical to that of the murderer who 'died'. (I wonder why?) :> And, his memories and personality and demeanor are all those of the murdered man. And, he quickly grows a tattoo on his arm identical to one that the murdered man had on his arm. etc. etc Proof after proof. He goes back to his wife and knows things about her and their past that only he could possibly know. (She has to test him since he is in a new body) He later kills again and then takes Scully hostage. In short, it is obvious to the viewer and to Mulder that he IS the murdered man not the FBI agent. The soul of the murderer somehow entered his body during the revival. Now, this is where Scully is so darn frustrating. She refuses to accept the obvious because science has no explanation or methodology to measure the soul. So, she tries to find other 'scientific' explanations for what she is observing. Mind you, many scientists as individuals have faith in God and believe that we have a soul. But, science itself cannot quantify such a thing or prove that it exists. In the face of all the evidence presented in this episode, Scully does come off as an infuriating dolt. About Schrodinger, yeah, it IS true. He did become an ardent mystic in his later years as did Godel and a few other geniuses. I have always loved the X-Files but I do understand HP's reaction/dismay to Scully as someone new to the series. I think she grows on people over the long haul. Janie

#25 of 37 OFFLINE   Jeff#

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Posted August 30 2006 - 05:22 PM

There's also a period in the 5th season (the series' finest year), in which Mulder himself starts to have doubts of the existence of aliens and even if his sister is still alive. Fortunately, questioning his beliefs in the paranormal are short-lived. That was during a period in which the "I Don't Trust the U.S. Government" Mulder takes full-force. I won't tell you why Scully, meanwhile, the scientist / skeptic comes to eventually believe in paranomal phenomena based on some of what she discovers on certain cases. But I will say this: What often annoyed me early in the series is that Mulder himself always seems to find evidence of alien or monster-related life forms and Scully somehow avoided it (bad timing, being injured, being busy at the moment, etc). That was just too silly to continue, so the writers gradually let Scully herself become a witness to some of the extraordinary going-ons.

I'm not a religious person at all, but from a fictional aspect it seems odd that Scully could be such a skeptic yet be such a spiritual person. Theoretically, if she can believe that Moses can part The Red Sea (without building a dam), then anything is possible! Posted Image You're going to see a few stories in which her faith is put to the test, yet Mulder debunks what Scully saw because it's on a religious basis instead of a paranormal one! That's just a side benefit to great storytelling.

The mythology is The X-Files at its absolute best, because it develops the characters and the conspiracies that they become entangled in -- some even intentionally, such as when Mulder follows a lead (as he explores an area of the Department of Defense) from another FBI agent's information!!

#26 of 37 OFFLINE   Janie111

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Posted August 30 2006 - 11:23 PM

You made some excellent points Jeff. I forgot about those events in Season 5. Thanks for sharing them! Janie

#27 of 37 OFFLINE   Holadem

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Posted August 30 2006 - 11:44 PM

Welcome to HTF, where such discussions are the norm (never mind my posts). -- H

#28 of 37 OFFLINE   Jeff#

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Posted August 31 2006 - 12:40 AM

No problem, Janie. The X-Files is one of my all-time favorite TV series....even when the writing went down the tubes in the 7th season before Duchovny left the show. Posted Image

But just to be clear on one thing: Mulder always distrusted the U.S. Government he worked for more than most people (and not just because his sister was abducted as a child), but that fear became its most intense in the middle years. It also was one of the crucial dramatic elements that brought Mulder & Scully closer together, because she too was fed up with how the FBI, DOD, and CIA were thwarting almost every investigation that the agents were assigned to. That intensity was lessed somewhat in the comedic episodes from the 6th season, and to a greater extent in the 7th. "The Ghosts that Stole Christmas", the "Fight Club" parody with Kathy Griffin, and the episode about the genie were X-Files at its lowest points.

#29 of 37 OFFLINE   HowardPaul

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Posted August 31 2006 - 02:32 AM

Agree wholeheartedly. with point #1 ROFL! (#2) Now, there is candor for you!! Best How

#30 of 37 OFFLINE   Mark Talmadge

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Posted August 31 2006 - 08:45 AM

I wouldn't spend too much time spoiling the series guys if this is a new fan. I would hazard the spoiler that Scully's character continues to evolve throughout the series. But ... I think X-Files jumped the shark with Seasons 8 and 9.

#31 of 37 OFFLINE   TravisR

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Posted August 31 2006 - 10:25 AM

Half the fun of The X-Files is that one is a skeptic and one is a believer. Posted Image

EDIT: I know most people don't like Season Eight (although most people probably think that solely because Duchovny is gone) but it's one of the best years of the series.

#32 of 37 OFFLINE   Louis C

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Posted August 31 2006 - 03:03 PM

I enjoyed season eight. Doggett is great. But seven and nine were just not consistent. You can find a couple single episodes, but the whole mythology got really muddled after the 'syndicate' ending from season six, and the writing went downhill. Stil... bad X-files seasons are better than the best seasons of other shows.

#33 of 37 OFFLINE   Jonathan_Clarke

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Posted September 01 2006 - 03:53 AM

The first half of season eight (when Duchovny is missing) is great. It's when he comes back and the writers had nothing for him to do that sucked.
www.notinmybook.comWhere I can complain and complain and complain.

#34 of 37 OFFLINE   Janie111

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Posted September 01 2006 - 12:18 PM

HP, I assume that you are a doctor when you say 'medical professional'. If I'm wrong, please correct me. In my experience, most doctors are rather rigid and conservative which is why I see alternative practitioners like an acupuncturist and a chiropractor. I THINK I know where you are coming from with this post. But, would you spell out for me what you see as the downside of modern medicine with all of its scientific advances? And, our increase in life span? Thanks, Janie

#35 of 37 OFFLINE   Jeff#

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Posted September 01 2006 - 01:06 PM

Which explains why Duchovny left again. Posted Image But he came back again for the 2 hour series finale, so there's still always a possibility for a movie sequel. This year both David and Gillian expressed an interest in a post-series X-Files feature film. Unfortunately, other than the search for a decent script idea, Chris Carter also has differences with 20th Century Fox (a studio which, by the way, really needs to change their name to 21st Century Fox --- something they should have done back in 1997).

#36 of 37 OFFLINE   HowardPaul

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Posted September 02 2006 - 03:13 AM

Sure Janie. I’d be happy to do so. Firstly, yes, I am an M.D. I have one specialty and 2 sub-specialties. (This means I did residency training beyond medical school in these 3 areas.) Where modern medicine has made the greatest strides is in the treatment of infections and trauma. (Since infections used to be the prime cause of death, I believe that Fleming’s discovery of Penicillin was the greatest single life-saver of the 20th century.) Where we have failed rather miserably is in the treatment of chronic diseases such as arthritis, chronic fatigue, depression etc. The vast majority of what primary care doctors treat are chronic diseases. I believe that you, personally, are better off with your acupuncturist and chiropractor for the majority of commonly seen ailments, unless you happen to have an M.D. in your area who has been trained in Integrative Medicine. Many Americans have become disillusioned with ‘traditional’ medicine and turn to alternative remedies more and more. According to a NEJM study, close to 50% of Americans now use some type of natural remedy each year. Let’s look at the leading causes of death. They are heart disease, cancer and stroke. Heart disease causes around 750,000 deaths annually, cancer causes roughly 550,000 deaths annually and stroke causes 170,000 deaths annually. Now, let’s look at some little-known, fascinating data. (This data has been published in conservative medical journals such as JAMA, by the way.) Up to 137,000 people die annually due to ‘properly prescribed prescription drugs’. Drug reactions and drug side effects etc. are responsible for those deaths. (Note the use of the term, ‘side-effect’. What we have been trained to call a side-effect is actually a direct effect of the drug but one that is undesirable.) Vioxx is just the tip of the iceberg, by the, as far as abuse and callousness by the pharmaceutical industry in releasing and continuing to market drugs known by them to be harmful. You’ve no idea how brutal the facts are. In fact, the former editor of the prestigious New England Journal of Medicine resigned her post to write an expose concerning the drug companies. Approximately 195,000 people die each year as a result of ‘hospital errors’. This data came from the years 2000-2002. Next, consider that 100,000 patients die annually due to hospital-acquired infections. Add these 3 figures up and you will see that, despite its advances, medicine is related to 430,000 deaths each year, give or take. This makes it the 3rd leading cause of death in the US. About our increase in life expectancy. In 1900 it was 50. By the end of the century it was 75 or 76. These gains were due largely to the eradication and control of numerous infectious diseases and to non-sustainable advances in agricultural technology such as chemical fertilizers. Basic life expectancy numbers exaggerate this growth, however. The low level of pre-modern life expectancy is distorted by the extremely high infant and childhood mortality of that era. (Some figures suggest that in 1900 nearly 50% of children died from infectious diseases before age 10) Improvements in medicine, public health, and nutrition have increased the numbers of people living beyond childhood, with less effect on overall average lifespan. There is much more to be said. I teach a course that goes into all this thoroughly. But, I don’t want to hog the board. I've not even touched on the 'quality of life' debate or the huge amount of health dollars spent on just the last 6 months of life or that, despite the USA being ranked by WHO in the year 2000 as the #1 spender of healthcare dollars we were ranked #37 in the world in 'quality of healthcare delivery'. So, despite my being a primary healthcare provider, I recognize the problems that we face and the limitations of a traditional approach. I greatly favor the growing use of Integrative Medicine. Best Regards and welcome to the board Janie, HP

#37 of 37 OFFLINE   Janie111

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Posted September 02 2006 - 10:30 AM

Thanks for your informative and detailed reply HP AND the welcome. I'd read about figures like that in the NY Times over the years but never bothered to add them up! I'd also seen a release about the WHO report. It shocked me, to be honest. Thanks again! Janie




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