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stop the subwoofer madness


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30 replies to this topic

#1 of 31 OFFLINE   rademacher1939

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Posted August 17 2006 - 04:02 PM

I have just been reading many of the wonderful commits about so many different subs the past couple of days, weeks and even months. The more you read the more you find out you don't know.Posted Image
I'm trying to keep my sub purchase under a grand. At one point I was thinking of the B&K asw750, but it's more then my budget can afford and it sounds like it won't perform as well as the svsound's.
I was also checking out ACI Titan XL. It has some great write ups but, has anyone see or heard one in action?
With the PB12-nsd/2 and the PB12-Plus both running neck and neck $ wise,
What is the really difference? Oh the madness!
If any one else has any other great ideas I'm willing to add to my confusion.
Thanks, much.

#2 of 31 OFFLINE   Lee-c

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Posted August 17 2006 - 06:02 PM

Get the PB2-NSD. We're talking dual 12 inch SVS woofers in a very sizable custom cabinet with plenty of power, that is some serious bass. The black finish on the cabinets (made right here in the U.S.) looks great, too. Posted Image

#3 of 31 OFFLINE   SethH

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Posted August 17 2006 - 09:28 PM

What size room are you in? Is it sealed or does it have openings to other rooms?

#4 of 31 OFFLINE   BrianTwig

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Posted August 18 2006 - 01:11 AM

As the proud owner of an SVS PB12-NSD/2 I can say you will not find a better sub for less than $1,000 anywhere. Period.

The only drawback for some, especially if you have to over come WAF is its size. It is huge. Personally I like it that way as people are just stunned when they see it. And when they hear it they are speechless.
My budget system constrained by WAF

JVC HD-ILA HD-52G787
Panasonic DVD-S52K
Marantz SR5600Marantz CC4300NHT IW3s all aroundPureAV PF60SVS PB12-NSD/2

#5 of 31 OFFLINE   Tony Genovese

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Posted August 18 2006 - 01:21 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTwig
As the proud owner of an SVS PB12-NSD/2 I can say you will not find a better sub for less than $1,000 anywhere. Period.
And... you've tried them all?

#6 of 31 OFFLINE   rademacher1939

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Posted August 18 2006 - 01:45 AM

Thanks for you responses.
My room is a basement, roughly 15' x 32' that is almost finished. So it is pretty much self contained. The only real opening will be the stair way to the upper level. It has a open rafter ceiling, so any one up stairs can get or could get a good foot massage.

Just a little more system info.
The Fronts: B&W 704
Mid Room: B&W cd56 mounted in the ceiling
Rears: B&W cwm650 mounted in the rear wall
Receiver: Marantz SR8500

So, the PB12-Plus isn't a step up from the NSD/2 until you go to the "Plus2".
Is the PB12plus/2 worth the extra $300. Or since you can't compare them side by side (its a man thing to want more POWER) its better to day in my budget and keep the wife factor in check.

#7 of 31 OFFLINE   BrianTwig

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Posted August 18 2006 - 03:14 AM

Tony,

"And... you've tried them all?"

All? Nobody has tried them "all". But I spent months researching components, going to audio shops and listening to as many speakers and subs as I could. Over and over and over any sub that fit my budget was inadequate for what I was looking for. Every sub I heard up to $1,000 was a disappointment. My original budget for a sub was $700, and all under that were just weak. So the sales guys keep telling me I had to up it and they would show me ones that cost more. Still disappointed. Then they told me that to get the bass I was looking for (hit you hard, pound your chest, and shake the house) I would need to double my budget for my entire system because I would need to spend all of my current budget on a sub to get what I was looking for ($3,000). And even then I was highly disappointed in the subs for what they were costing. I mean for $3,000 I should have been floored, mouth wide open and drool covering my chest. But I was left wanting much much more performance. I had resigned myself to the fact that I could not afford what it would take to get the bass I wanted.

So after lengthy discussions with Ron at SVS I upped my budget for the sub to $1,000 and got the PB12-NSD/2 with the hopes that it would perform to an "acceptable" level and provide some decent but not outstanding, and surely not bone crushing bass.

But when I got it hooked up and hit play on the CD player (Metallica's One live) I could not believe what I was hearing and more importantly FEELING! Then for hours and hours I just kept rolling through more and more discs and scenes from LOTR movies and Nemo. I had never experienced bass like this before and it so far exceeded my expectations I was in bass heaven. And because of WAF, living room layout, and furniture placement I have the sub in the 2nd worst place I could have it. I can only imagine the power and performance if I could place it in the optimal location. But alas I can't. And I have the thing in a room that is 33' x 21' with 9' ceilings and that is wide open to a room that is 16' x 22' with 9' ceilings. I am no math wiz but that is some massive cubic footage to energize and the SVS overpowers the area.

So, in conclusion, I will put my SVS PB12-NSD/2 up against any other manufacturers sub that is $1,000 or less out the door (delivered, or including tax).

Have any contenders you think can take down the SVS? Bring 'Em On!
My budget system constrained by WAF

JVC HD-ILA HD-52G787
Panasonic DVD-S52K
Marantz SR5600Marantz CC4300NHT IW3s all aroundPureAV PF60SVS PB12-NSD/2

#8 of 31 OFFLINE   John Garcia

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Posted August 18 2006 - 03:58 AM

For a room that size, I'd definitely look at an NSD/2 if not a Plus/2. Is it worth it? Well, the Plus has a much more powerful amp and a significantly upgraded driver. Shoot an e-mail over to SVS directly with your room size and what you're after and they will help you out.
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#9 of 31 OFFLINE   Tony Genovese

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Posted August 18 2006 - 11:36 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTwig
Tony,

"And... you've tried them all?"

All? Nobody has tried them "all".

Well then, this statement makes me feel very uncomfortable:

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTwig
As the proud owner of an SVS PB12-NSD/2 I can say you will not find a better sub for less than $1,000 anywhere. Period.

How about adding the caveat "In my experience" or some such. Otherwise, it's just so much hot air and boosterism and really can't be taken seriously (by me).

BTW, I admire SVS and Tom's and Ron's work. I just think it's a bit silly to declare anything the best...period.

It would be like my saying as "a proud owner of a Subaru Outback wagon you will not find a better car for less than $32,000 anywhere. Period." Kind of silly, isn't it?

#10 of 31 OFFLINE   Lee-c

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Posted August 18 2006 - 11:57 AM

Well, there is one difference with SVS. Tom and Ron have bought and thoroughly tested nearly every, if not every, sub worth testing at any price level that isn't insanely high (I'm sure they aren't going to drop $20,000 just to test a sub). And even some of those super expensive ones have been tested by respected others with solid objective measurements, so they know what those ones can do, as well. And so they are in a position to know for a fact if their subs have superior performance compared to anything else you can buy at a given level of cost. Posted Image

#11 of 31 OFFLINE   rademacher1939

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Posted August 18 2006 - 04:29 PM

Thank you to everyone who replied, the info and your opinions where great.
This morning I did a quick sketch of the NSD/2 on the floor to get an Idea of how large it will be. I think the wife will want me to mock up a 3D cardboard version so she can get the full scope. John you commented that the NSD/2 might not be adequate and that larger might be better ( That sounds like Tim the Toolman Taylor). I...........Like it. Oh the wife and the budget might not though. Whats your opinion on multiple sub in a room, be it box or cylinder, Or a combination of the two?

#12 of 31 OFFLINE   RichardH

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Posted August 18 2006 - 04:35 PM

How loud do you plan on listening?

#13 of 31 OFFLINE   rademacher1939

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Posted August 18 2006 - 05:33 PM

I don't want to say that its the loudness but the fullness that I'm going after.
The pecussion of the cannons from Tcycovskis 18th overture as it developes.
The beating of the heart as Freddie Kruger removes it from some unsuspecting soul. It does have to blow me through the back wall, but maybe lift me off my seat.

#14 of 31 OFFLINE   rademacher1939

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Posted August 18 2006 - 05:36 PM

Sorry, that last line should have read "It doesn't have to blow me through the back wall"

#15 of 31 OFFLINE   Ryan Schnacke

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Posted August 19 2006 - 06:05 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Genovese
How about adding the caveat "In my experience" or some such. Otherwise, it's just so much hot air and boosterism and really can't be taken seriously (by me).
These kind of statements are made all the time (oops, I mean "lots of times") around here and its a rare instance that we call somebody to the mat for it. I think he meant no harm. In a professional publication this would have been inappropriate. But here ... well, when it comes to free advice you're already getting more than you paid for.

rademacher,
I'd skip the carboard mock-up if you're pulling for a dual-driver sub. Its not even close to what the finished product will look like and I find that women-folk sometimes have a difficult time seperating the aesthetics from the size. She'll probably push for the smaller SVS or maybe even a smaller sub altogether.

#16 of 31 OFFLINE   rademacher1939

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Posted August 20 2006 - 03:55 AM

Thanks to everyone.

I shot a e-mail over to Erik @ SVS yesterday morning with my room
dimensions, and had a response back already last night.... Man, if there
subs work as hard as they do then I"m at the right place.
I ended up faxing over a diagram of my room and can't wait to find out their
suggestions.
The cardboard mock up is for the wife never got of the ground. I guess I'll be living in the basement Posted Image and will be permitted up stairs on occassion.Posted Image I think I can live that that.

#17 of 31 OFFLINE   Jay_Via

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Posted August 20 2006 - 03:56 PM

let us know what they recommend. Ive got a similar situation (13x27) room that im very close to completion on (dedicated theater room). Im in dire need of a bangin' sub also Posted Image

#18 of 31 OFFLINE   rademacher1939

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Posted August 20 2006 - 05:12 PM

Jay,
I just checked my e-mail and got a reply back from Eric at SVS. He gave me three very nice choices; PC Ultra, PB12 Ultra and the PB12plus/2.
Pending the placement, I can probably work any of the three into my room. I personally don't mind the looks of the cylinder and all three are in the standard black (thats the only way the cylinder comes) and are within a Ben Franklin of each other. Eric himself was leaning more towards the PB12plus/2. Because of its range of depth and having a greater db out put over that of the other two options. The sub in the Ultras are the creme dele creme and would give a better musical quality with a lesser output (I don't have a formidable knowledge of Subs, this is the basic info. I received from Eric). I was hoping I could get away with the NSD/2 after I heard the great comments from John Garcia. But, I think I'll have to save a few more pennies and just go for the PB Ultra. I wish you luck on your quest.
Shot the guys over at SVS an e-mail of your room and how you have it set up and how you plane to use it.

#19 of 31 OFFLINE   BrianTwig

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Posted August 21 2006 - 05:48 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rademacher1939
The cardboard mock up is for the wife never got of the ground. I guess I'll be living in the basement Posted Image and will be permitted up stairs on occassion.Posted Image I think I can live that that.

Will the sub be in the basement?
My budget system constrained by WAF

JVC HD-ILA HD-52G787
Panasonic DVD-S52K
Marantz SR5600Marantz CC4300NHT IW3s all aroundPureAV PF60SVS PB12-NSD/2

#20 of 31 OFFLINE   Parker Clack

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Posted August 21 2006 - 07:29 AM

The other thing to consider is how difficult is the sub going to be getting into your basement. When people say they are huge believe me they mean it not only size but in weight too. Be sure you have a lot of help getting into your place. And we want pictures of it in your room when done.

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