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Is it just me? I am trying give non-CRT RPTVs a chance but... YUCK!!!

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#1 of 28 OFFLINE   Rolando



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Posted February 11 2005 - 10:36 AM

First of all I will not even try to pretend I know what I am talking about when it comes to DLP, LCD or LCOS (I think)RPTVs. As a few here know I have been wanting to get a new TV for over 6 months now. the first debate was 51" CRT RPTV or 34" direct view CRT. non CRT was never even a thought. I had seen a few years ago (as well as plasma) and to this day have heard about how they just don't compare to even RPTV CRT. If you can get right lighting condition CRT will always look better. SO I heard and so I have believed. Well decided on Tosh 34HFX84 but as covered in another thread, it is discontinued. Only other 34" whose picture I trusted was the Sony 34XS955 but I can't justify the $800 price difference (here in Canada). I already had a long debate about going 34" when for the same price I could get a 51" RPTV. Of course PQ would be different but still not HUGE difference in right lighting conditions. So here I am back to square one looking for a TV all over again and decided maybe I am missing something. A lot of people here at the forum seem to have accepted these units do I figured maybe over the years they have improved and I might be sticking to my guns for nothing. After all the thought of a 44" unit that will look just as good in daylight was tempting. If I were alone I would definitely go for CRT RPTV but the wife will still watch some regular OTA TV during the day and I know she won't be very impressed with the picture. If we will drop $2K I don't want her to feel it's a downgrade in PQ just for size. So to make a long story short (ok, I know, too late) I decided to give other RPTVs a shot. Well I went to Audio centre, a place that pride's itself at not being Future Shop or Centre Hi-Fi (Canadian equivalent of Circuit City, Best Buy and the like) and they know stuff and their TV look nice in properly lit rooms. Well I sat in front of a 52" Toshiba DLP which he told me fit my description of what I was looking for (not bright, just well calibrated film like picture) and I would fall in love. I was disappointed instantaneously. My first clue should have been when I asked if it was an HD feed on it and he said "Yes, see how gorgeous and life like it looks?". It did not. it was a football game and it looked horrible. Was his statement supposed to make me go wow yes! I decided to give it one more shot. asked him to put on a DVD (which is what I will mostly do) and put TV on "movie mode" rather than sport or anything else. Well not even 5 minutes into X-Men 2 I could not take it anymore. It looked like I was watching an avi or mpeg on my PC zoomed in. Yes I am exagerating but how can you not notice the artifacts? the "clouds", the pixelation etc. Do people just not notice? I found it so distracting. The best part is that when I told him he says "well with a good DVD player it does the processing and it will look better". So I say ok do you guys sell Denon. he said no, we have Marantz which is better. So I ask what DVD player was he using now? "Marantz." Is it me? Or are there units with impeccable processing without this "ghosting" effect? Is it calibration? Is it lighting? Is it DVD player? Or do I just need CRT?
Rolando Avendano

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#2 of 28 OFFLINE   Guy Usher

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Posted February 11 2005 - 10:54 AM

I too was a died in the wool CRT only fan. . .Be it RPTV or direct view untill I found my Sony 55WF655. . . Yes I know about LCD RPTVs and how crummy they are supposed to be but dont tell that to this Sony. . . When I ran VE to set it up. . . everything was spot on the money at default settings (Standard/warm/ nothing added)right out of the box. Now about one week later I have trouble letting go. . . It is hard to watch crawls and black bars knowing they wont hurt her. . . I LOVE THIS TV!!! I wanted an integrated HD tuner and a spectacular picture and I got both. There might be some black issues but not so you notice watching what I watch which is just about everything in HD. . . Shoot I watched the original "Charlie's Angels" the other morning at 6AM. . . Hows that for you?? Strange for me but the picture was so damn good I kept watching untill it ended. . . I am happy as a clam. . . Does just fine in my book and as I said a month ago I would have bet money that I would never ever buy one of these and 3 grand!! NEVER!!
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#3 of 28 OFFLINE   Scott_N


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Posted February 11 2005 - 11:22 AM

Well I have a JVC 52" D-ILA and except for black levels I prefer the picture I get with it over CRT on DVD's and HD. On standard def I think CRT looks much better but I can live with that. I'm not a big fan of DLP so I would check out some LCD tv's and the JVC D-ILA before making a final judgement about digital display's. One of my friends has a Mitsubishi 55" CRT RPTV and prefers my tv over his so I guess i'm not alone in this opinion!Posted Image

#4 of 28 OFFLINE   Travis_R


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Posted February 11 2005 - 11:41 AM

I used to think the same way, as 15 years ago a big screen projection TV looked like crap compared to a CRT, but since I have upgraded from my Zenith 32" from 1987, which was the biggest you could get in 87', well anyway I now have a 42" Mitsubishi LCD RP HDTV and I love it, the picture on DVD and on DISH Network HD looks fantastic, I even have Basic Cable as a backup in case of storms and I also have to have it for Internet, but even basic cable doesnt look half bad on it, but the HD IMHO looks out of this world

#5 of 28 OFFLINE   Rolando



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Posted February 11 2005 - 11:41 AM

Well I guess this is what I am asking. Is it possible then to get a PQ as good as CRT??? Was it just missing something. Will calibration and a good DVD player do the trick? Or is it that no one notices these things? I see them clearly. Everytime night crawler moved it was somewhere. I am not even talking about diring his fight scene. I mean just before as he is walking in. The sleave of his trench coat, his face in the close up, the secratary's face. Everywhere I looked I saw little pixelation effects. Is the a unit that does not do this or is it that these things don't bother other people?
Rolando Avendano

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#6 of 28 OFFLINE   Mike Gov

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Posted February 11 2005 - 11:42 AM

I was in the same dilema and guess what, I bought another CRT RPTV. The picture cannot be beat IMHO!!

#7 of 28 OFFLINE   Ryan Peddle

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Posted February 11 2005 - 12:09 PM

Just to confirm: What do you currently have or have had in the past? I know that I just upgraded from a toshiba 32' Direct view CRT to a Toshiba 51" 16:9 HDTV CRT. It take a little getting used to. The television is able to pick up so much detail over my old one that I am able to see so many more flaws in a picture. I have not had a chance to view any HD programming yet. Just dvd through a rather cruddy JVC progressive scan dvd player. But if the dvd is authored and produced well, then the picture is amazing, but if it is not, you can certainly tell on a hi def tv.

#8 of 28 OFFLINE   ChuckSolo



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Posted February 11 2005 - 12:34 PM

Well I can chime in that my RCA HD CRT RPTV looks fantastic in HD and equally fantastic when I play a DVD upconverted to 1080i. I love this thing. The clarity is excellent. I will eventually get a plasma screen, but I will hold onto my RCA. It will make a fantastic bedroom set.

#9 of 28 OFFLINE   Mike Boniferro

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Posted February 11 2005 - 01:02 PM

I think you are a lot like me in your dislike for most material on DLP. I am VERY aware of the artifacting, and I think the Toshiba is one of the best pictures I've seen. Posted Image
However, I would suggest that you seriously consider taking a good look at the Sony WF and XS series LCD RPTV's. They do have a very nice picture on just about any source material. The JVC DILA also looks pretty good, except on DVD players that suffer from the chroma bug (I find it is really exagerated on this set).

But for me, I am happy with my Toshiba 51" CRT RPTV, as I'm sure I will love my soon to be purchased Panasonic AE700 projector.

#10 of 28 OFFLINE   Shane Martin

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Posted February 11 2005 - 11:37 PM

Rolando, Not but just shy of a year ago I went looking around to find a new TV set. I was really intrigued by the LCD/DLP/LCOS/DILA type sets but after reading about all the issues and seeing many of them on various sets, I decided against that and bought a CRT RPTV. I couldn't be more happier. The nicest surprise is the fact I was able to save alot of money while doing this too. The same size set I bought in digital form was $1500-$2k more. That said if I had to buy a digital set, I'd strongly consider the JVC DILA. That is the only set that is somewhat acceptable to me besides the 1080P Sony XRD but that is $13k

#11 of 28 OFFLINE   Rolando



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Posted February 12 2005 - 08:54 AM

anyone know who carries and where I can view a JVC DILA unit in Montreal? Or how much it retails for in Canada? The Canadian site was not very helpful in that respect.
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#12 of 28 OFFLINE   Kenneth Harden

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Posted February 13 2005 - 05:32 AM

Only DLP/LCD/LCOS RPTV I like is the 42" Sony. It ALWAYS looks good to me. Better plasma's and LCD's always look good. However, I just am not too impressed with a lot of the other newer TV's - they are too edgy and I am just not too impressed.

#13 of 28 OFFLINE   Ricardo E Garcia

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Posted February 13 2005 - 11:36 AM

Rolando, it's not just you. In fact most of the LCD and Plasma TVs including the LCOS and ILA sets have problems which I consider to be unacceptable. The main one is that I enjoy viewing shows, sports, and movies with alot of action. The non-CRT sets can not keep up with the action because of the refresh rate of the pixels. This is the same reason why I don't have an LCD monitor for my computer. I have a 22" Viewsonic CRT. I am looking forward to seeing the new SED sets that are supposed to have sub 1ms refresh. But for now I'm thinking about getting a Hitachi 65" CRT RPTV JMHO
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#14 of 28 OFFLINE   Jerome Grate

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Posted February 13 2005 - 11:42 AM

For awhile I thought I was missing something. I would go to these stores and compare in the sense as best as I could to my Sony 51 CRT-RPTV and I conclude for most t.v. watching, I find my Sony better than the other types like DLP, LCD etc. I appreciate what your situation is and my wife really likes to watch movies only on the Sony and use the 32 inch Toshiba for everyday watching. The kids sometimes request to watch t.v. downstairs but that's because I put a lot of their toys down there. Get the CRT RPTV, she'll grow to appreciate it and it will be to your satisfaction.
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#15 of 28 OFFLINE   Mike Boniferro

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Posted February 13 2005 - 11:51 AM

Rolando, Future Shop in Montreal would carry the JVC DILA

#16 of 28 OFFLINE   Rolando



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Posted February 14 2005 - 07:26 AM

Thanks Mike. Just my luck though, the two around me seem to have guys in the TV section who are totally clueless about TVs.
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#17 of 28 OFFLINE   John S

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Posted February 14 2005 - 07:43 AM

It is good there are choices out there. You do seem to prefer CRT.. So do I, but I have seen many other techology displays I also consider very good. Sony LCD Projection is very good and I do think I would enjoy it just as much as my CRT. Panasonic ED Plasmas also get a thumbs up from me. I am still not taken with any particular DLP based sets yet though myself. I helped installed a 4805 over the weekend, I wasn't as happy with it, as the owner was, but we could only feed it DVD via component. I am supposed to help him further with it one night this week.

#18 of 28 OFFLINE   Rich H

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Posted February 15 2005 - 01:11 AM

Rolando wrote: "non CRT was never even a thought. I had seen a few years ago (as well as plasma) and to this day have heard about how they just don't compare to even RPTV CRT."

Actually, if you keep reading the forums and even read professional reviews these days you'll see a lot of enthusiasm for how well some of the current technology stacks up against CRT RPTVs.

I tend to like a good plasma myself. The Panasonic plasmas can do black levels into CRT territory so you get a CRT-like punch and richness combined with the non-CRT virtues of fixed pixel (perfect precision, no geometry/focus/color fringe issues) as well as a brighter picture and perfectely even illumination from any angle. They don't have that "shifty" effect to the image that a CRT RPTV has. As such I find their image clearer, more convincing and an over-all more natural, comfortable viewing experience over a CRT RPTV.

Not a few professional reviewers feel the same, these days Sound and Vision said Panasonic had wiped out any misgivings that CRT enthusiasts might have had about plasma, The Perfect Vision said the black levels of the plasma were subjectively as black as any CRT RPTV he'd seen and that he'd rather watch the plasma for it's greater clarity, and Ultimate AV (Stereophile Guide To Home Theater) said the Fujitsu 50" was the best image they'd ever seen anywhere around it's size and was their new reference.

(And btw plasmas don't have problems with motion, such as sports. Their refresh rate became quite good years ago now. I watch tons of sports on my 3 year old Panasonic plasma and there is zero difference in terms of motion vs my 27" CRT Panasonic Tau set).

So...things have changed. It just takes getting to see the latest technologies in a proper set-up, which is very rare in stores, unfortunately.

BTW, if you want to see something beat your CRT check out the new Sony Qualia SXRD 006 Rear Projector. It's Sony's version of LCOS technology and it looks incredible. I agree with people who have seen it that it's the best RPTV image out there.

As for DLP and LCD they have some virtues - better geometry over CRT, brighter, better viewing angles, more punch (especially DLP). And they can look astoundingly sharp with Hi-Def and good DVD transfers. However, I still prefer a CRT RPTV in some ways. I find the CRT RPTVs have a more subtle, natural color quality and deeper blacks for a slightly "weightier" deeper image.

Best of luck.

#19 of 28 OFFLINE   Ted Lee

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Posted February 15 2005 - 06:36 AM

is the jvc dila still available? we (best buy) are not carrying it anymore. i heard it was discontinued, but am not sure.

i also am concerned about fixed pixel displays on standard-def programming. i've seen the 60" sony lcd (955 series) with sd, and it was barely tolerable. but, on hd stuff, that tv seriously *shines*. the way i'm looking at it, within a few more years, hdtv will be full-tilt, so i won't have to worry about sd programming anymore.

ps, that salesperson must work on commission. Posted Image

#20 of 28 OFFLINE   Jon Sheedy

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Posted February 15 2005 - 10:32 PM

I agree...check these out! A truly amazing picture..and at a very reasonable price lately. Jon
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'bout sound and vision"

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