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*** Official SAW Discussion Thread


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#21 of 72 OFFLINE   Britton

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Posted October 30 2004 - 05:13 AM

Is it just me

Spoiler:
or was Zep acting way too sadistic for someone who is being forced to play the true killer's game? I mean, why would he be listening to the little girl's hearbeat while point a gun at Monica Potter's head other than to create a plot device to make us all think he was behind it all?


#22 of 72 OFFLINE   Alex Spindler

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Posted October 30 2004 - 08:13 AM

Somewhat off topic, but does anyone know of an online source for the new High Tension/Haute Tension trailer they played before Saw? Covering for the foreign language and/or dubbing, it was primarily scored with a song whose title escapes me. I was very, very impressed with the trailer itself and need to see it again.

#23 of 72 OFFLINE   Andrew s wells

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Posted October 30 2004 - 11:37 AM

I'm thinking
Spoiler:
maybe the reason monicas character didn't shoot is because she thought her daughter had already been through tremendous stress, and didn't want to HAVE to kill a man in front of her. It's easy enough to say what someone would do in a given situation, but you never know until you're in that situation yourself. Just a thought.


#24 of 72 OFFLINE   Matt Stone

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Posted October 30 2004 - 02:56 PM

I don't think the Haute Tension trailer is up anywhere online yet. I knew what the song was while I was watching the trailer, but now I can't remember. It worked well, but I was hoping they'd use the Muse song New Born like the do in the film. It's a strange match for the movie that I really like.
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#25 of 72 OFFLINE   Matt Stone

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Posted October 30 2004 - 04:24 PM

Ah! I remember! It was an update of the Carpenters' Superstar...with the catchy chorus of "Don't you remember you told me you loved me baby...etc"



Definitely works well with the material.
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#26 of 72 OFFLINE   Blu

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Posted October 30 2004 - 04:27 PM

Why don't they make scary movies anymore?



You could tell that they made the most of their very small budget which is comendable. You could tell it was basically one location with maybe MAYBE one other hospital shot location outside of that it was all the same warehouse I bet.



It had potential like Cabin Fever did but failed to live up to any of it. The real crime is the fact that it was marketed as a scary movie and really had that kind of potential.
Spoiler:


some killer out of left field that had nothing to do with anything going on in the movie then maybe it could have been half a star higher.




It had a couple of eerie moments that were quickly killed off with exposition. IN fact there was almost nothing but exposition except they didn't explain any thing remotely close to a MOTIVE! They danced around the wasted life thing but exactly how does that fit with
Spoiler:
REAL KILLER?!?!?!




Just a little bit of script adjustment would have made this a much better movie IMHO.

#27 of 72 OFFLINE   Dave Hackman

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Posted October 30 2004 - 05:07 PM

I absolutely loved this film. I was so pumped with all the great victims, and the two chained men working through their groggy memories, in an attempt to bring some rational to their unfortunate predicament.

What a voice, echoing from all chambers of the theater, giving little sermons of self-absorbed wisdom on why each is where they are and what they need to do to end their ordeal. The main characters are not as alien to one another as initially perceived and eventually both reveal their whereabouts and actions that led to their entrapment. 360 spins were fun and really got me into the total madness that was building with each tick of the clock.

The bear trap scene is fabulous and I really liked the way she handled her business. At first it appeared she would dilly-dally around but once she shook her initial reservations, she really dug in and gutted it out like a true survivor.

Another great scene is when one of the chained men unleashes deep down animalistic thrusts of destruction atop his fellow man’s skull to help him achieve a lower state of consciousness. That felt good and sounded great.

Shit the whole thing is good but here’s another favorite. Hopelessness and insanity is abound, outlook is bleak, loved ones threaten, what’s a man to do? You scream at the screen you know it’s going to happen.

Don’t do it!!

Help is on the way

Don’t do it!!

I screamed

Do it!! Do it!!

Hands over eyes, food set away; he begins the initial rip the screaming the blood.

Sawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww that f@cking foot you mutha.

I swear to you if he got up and hopped with foot in hand and attempted to free his brother in chains I would have given a standing ovation. Wow folks I really enjoyed myself in this one.

His rational to his buddy at the end before the hunting accident was so damn funny it was better then the demonic voices burping out of the possessed female in the Exorcist the Beginning. His voice changed, he said crazy stupid stuff and I just loved it and laughed out loud.

What other movie allows their main characters to plunge a watery stool filled toilet with their hands, offer body parts in exchange for freedom and to partake in the deconstruction of each other’s unhealthy barriers of progress?

Great experience, had fun with it and that’s all I can ask from a movie.

A+

#28 of 72 OFFLINE   Alex Spindler

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Posted October 30 2004 - 06:32 PM

quote:


Ah! I remember! It was an update of the Carpenters' Superstar...with the catchy chorus of "Don't you remember you told me you loved me baby...etc"


Definitely works well with the material.


I just figured it out too, but only because I matched it to Sonic Youth's version on the Frighteners soundtrack. Then I had to see the movie again, in part to give it another shot and also to see that trailer again. Topic for another thread, but I really hope Haute Tension plays well to a general audience. I thought it was a superlative tension builder with some really honest attempts at horror.


Back to the subject at hand. Spoilers ahoy.


Some parts of Saw are so wonderfully realized that I think the whole trip is worth it, but some other parts of it are so amateurish that it threatens to sink the whole thing.


I must admit that the gorehound in me was a bit disappointed that they used inference and suggestion more than outright showing. Sing, Zepp, and even a brief shot of the Gordon's foot would have sat quite well with me. That said, I think the sawing off of his foot was overall and excellent realization of the core concept of the movie. In the way that it's kind of tossed away as a concept shortly after the Dr. mentions it, his final desperation move comes to me (and from what I could tell the rest of my audience) as soon as he begins preparing his shirt. Considering that I found the titular concept to be the best part of the film, I'd find myself recommending it on that point.


Shawnee Smith's short section was also quite nice, although it was nearly broken by two parts; the explanation from the dummy was far too long and slowed the excellent momentum from her waking up and they had to say that the opiate meant he couldn't feel anything. That really robs the scene of the worst part of the consequence. But, she does well in the short scene even if most of it is only with her eyes.


Unfortunately, the bad and amatuerish just abounds. I never thought I would find Cary Elwes to be a weak link acting-wise, but both he and Danny Glover came off as inadequate for many of their scenes. It was made all the worse with the terrible flashback segues, which came off as little better than, "he wants us to saw off our limbs. Speaking of Saw, the last thing I saw was my wife arguing with me". I'm usually a fan of time shifted narratives, especially when the main plot thread occurs in a confined space, but here it was painfully clumsy.


I've got quite a few films that I really like that have some really absurd thematic foundations, like The Ring's videotape leading to phone call and a death seven days later. I can usually run with anything as long as they stick with it and make it meaningful. But this movie was a random grab bag of concepts which were immediately discarded. The mastermind is the Jigsaw killer, but as best I can tell, he only took a jigsaw-shaped section of skin from one victim. Why did he take it from the razor victim and nobody else? Why take a jigsaw piece at all? Did he get a piece from the burn victim? Creepy doll, on a trike no less. Boars head costume? The morality purpose feels weakly lifted from Seven, and Shawnee even goes so far as to say he helped her (get off drugs?), but how exactly was he going to help the Dr. or Adam? It really feels as weak a justification as the shenanigans going on in Phone Booth. He sets up the doctor with a pen light six months before he plans to abduct him and his proxy-stalker? All this leads to a mishmash of stuff thrown in and left severly undercooked. Unless there is a hell of backstory on the cutting room floor, this is the madlib version of the twisted killer movie.


In retrospect, I sort of think this film would have worked better if it followed the model of a movie like Cube. Focus on their creative conundrums and leave the extraneous stuff behind. This film is pretty good for an independant budget release, and whenever they focus on their grisly challenges it really shines.


A point of discussion. I'm really leaning towards Zep being an apprentice of the mastermind. He says he's talked to him, his behavior seems like a sadistic lackey (especially the bit with the stethescope and gun) and he had to have met the mastermind to give him the polaroid of the mother and daughter to place in his wallet. I'm thinking he was given the poison as an added incentive.

#29 of 72 OFFLINE   Robert Crawford

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Posted October 30 2004 - 10:47 PM

This thread is now designated the Official Discussion Thread for "Saw" please, post all comments, links to outside reviews, film and box office discussion items to this thread.

All HTF member film reviews of "Saw" should be posted to the Official Review Thread.

Thank you for your consideration in this matter.


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#30 of 72 OFFLINE   Blu

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Posted October 31 2004 - 12:36 AM

The audience I was with was laughing more towards the end, especially with the over the top melodramatic acting going on. I was generally disapointed, mainly because I was expecting SCARY and wound up lauging.

#31 of 72 OFFLINE   Brook K

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Posted October 31 2004 - 04:22 AM

Glad to see I'm not the only one who found the ending absolutely ridiculous. I've got to quit letting Scott get me hyped up for all these horror movies. Posted Image

Can't wait for The Devil's Rejects. Man, it was great to see Sid Haig fronting a trailer like that.
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#32 of 72 OFFLINE   Matt Stone

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Posted October 31 2004 - 06:51 AM

Quote:
Can't wait for The Devil's Rejects. Man, it was great to see Sid Haig fronting a trailer like that.


Amen to that. As stupid as HO1KC was, I'll be there opening night.
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#33 of 72 OFFLINE   Justin_S

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Posted October 31 2004 - 12:46 PM

Quote:
A point of discussion. I'm really leaning towards Zep being an apprentice of the mastermind. He says he's talked to him, his behavior seems like a sadistic lackey (especially the bit with the stethescope and gun) and he had to have met the mastermind to give him the polaroid of the mother and daughter to place in his wallet. I'm thinking he was given the poison as an added incentive.

Another idea. Perhaps his sadism was why Jigsaw chose him? Its never really explained, so that's possible.

Quote:
Can't wait for The Devil's Rejects. Man, it was great to see Sid Haig fronting a trailer like that.

Same here. The cast for that flick is amazing. I didn't like the original at first, but its really grown on me. Nothing amazing, but very fun. This sounds like it'll be a better movie.

#34 of 72 OFFLINE   Scott Weinberg

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Posted November 01 2004 - 05:38 PM

From Yahoo! News:

By Joal Ryan

No-win moral dilemmas are at the crux of Saw (well, that and a lot of yucky gore). By comparison, Lions Gate's decision to sequelize the horror film was a breeze.


The low-budget indie flick made a scary amount of money.


A day after Saw wrapped up its debut weekend with $18.3 million, Lions Gate and the film's producers announced plans for Saw 2.


The new movie has been penciled in for a Halloween 2005 release.


In a statement Monday, Lions Gate president Tom Oretenberg said Saw's opening weekend "exceeded all our expectations."


The movie, made for under $10 million by first-time director James Wan and cowriter/costar Leigh Wannell, placed third behind fellow horror hit The Grudge ($21.8 million) and the Ray Charles biopic Ray ($20 million).


On Halloween Sunday, no film made more money than Saw--$5.4 million, per BoxOfficeMojo.com. Its three-day, per-screen-average of $7,895 was the second highest among the weekend's top 10 movies, behind Ray's $9,989.


Word is Saw 2 talks were underway even before the weekend. Wan and Wannell are expected to be involved in the sequel, although their roles have yet to be announced.


Also to be determined: Who among Saw's stars--the surviving ones, anyway--will be back for more twisted fun and games?


Saw, a hit at last January's Sundance Film Festival (news - web sites), stars Danny Glover (news) and Ken Leung as cops after a moralistic, if sadistic serial killer known as Jigsaw. Cary Elwes (news) appears as one of Mr. Saw's do-or-die playthings.


#35 of 72 OFFLINE   Matt Stone

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Posted November 01 2004 - 05:51 PM

Wow, interesting. I don't know if that's good or bad...but very interesting.
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#36 of 72 OFFLINE   Joseph S

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Posted November 04 2004 - 03:11 PM

I absolutely loved this film. Bring on a sequel. Posted Image Posted Image

#37 of 72 OFFLINE   david stark

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Posted November 06 2004 - 08:07 AM

I liked this film and found it a bit of fresh air after a lot of this years films. I thought it brought with it some new idea's rather than a by the number rehash. Unfortunately it was let down by some pretty poor acting.

The only parts of the story I really didn't like was how Detective Tapp went off the rails after his partners death and the scene where Tapp and Sing had caught the killer and he set of the drills. he just took too long to decide to shoot the drills and allow John to escape.

As for the killer being the 'dead guy' on the floor, I thought it was an interesting twist, although after watching it and thinking about it is is odd how Zep and average guy manages to get into Doc Gordon's house and is very accomplished in what he does in that way.

Was there any reason for keys everywhere in the film, or was just coincidence? the woman who escaped had to dig a key out of the guys stomach, the killer gave the detectives a bunch of keys to let the guy out of the drill trap, the key went down the plug hole for Adam's chain. There was a key given to Doc Gordon (in his pocket) that ended up being for the box hidden in the wall.

#38 of 72 OFFLINE   Brett_B

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Posted November 07 2004 - 01:41 AM

Was there any reason for keys everywhere in the film, or was just coincidence?

I think it was just a coincidence for the fact that there wasn't a key for the "razor-wire" puzzle.

#39 of 72 OFFLINE   Robert Ringwald

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Posted November 07 2004 - 09:02 AM

Interesting premise bogged down by bland, uninteresting characters. I felt almost NOTHING for anyone in this film.

Danny Glover's character even bordered on camp towards the end.

The movie had a lot of potential, and I think with a litle reworkind could have been a solid Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

There were just too many plot holes, and inconsistancies present to make it truly shine. A missed opportunity.

Posted Image Posted Image 1/2

#40 of 72 OFFLINE   Andres Munoz

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Posted November 08 2004 - 06:20 AM

I liked the movie a lot. I'm all for new guys getting their big break in Hollywood and these guys did it in some way.

The guy playing Adam (Leigh Wannell) is from Australia and I thought he did a great job with the American accent.

But unfortunately, I cannot say the same about Elwes. Amazing that a veteran like him could act some scenes as horribly as he did. The guy simply cannot cry or act desperate.

Other than that, I had a great time with this one. Bring on the sequel.
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