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What Elignment for super LOUD bass


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18 replies to this topic

#1 of 19 OFFLINE   Tyler.D.Jonczyk

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Posted July 28 2001 - 11:29 PM

What alignment is best for the shiva for super loud bass from 25Hz & up ? I'm still thinking of a EBS but i dont get the mid bass punch. I want the bass to be verry loud from 25Hz & up with midbass punch and deep enough to be felt ALOT. What should i do ? Please help Thanks

#2 of 19 OFFLINE   Greg Monfort

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Posted July 29 2001 - 10:49 AM

Define 'super loud'. It takes eight Shiva's in 40ft^3 with 5kW worth of power by my definition. GM ------------------ Loud is beautiful, if it's clean
Loud Is Beautiful, If It's Clean

#3 of 19 OFFLINE   James W. Johnson

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Posted July 29 2001 - 11:16 AM

Define 'super loud'
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I just now defined 'super loud', I have never in my entire life had to cover up my ears from high SPLs until yesterday when I went to my first NHRA event.

The races started out with some sportsman, comp, FMD/FMHC races, a few hours had passed and I was beginning to get disapointed , I though these cars were faster and lounder.. 'oh well' I thought. Then all of the sudden I spotted a top fuel dragster coming onto the track and he started his engine. Hey this thing idles as loud as the other cars were at full throttle. Then the dragster smoked his tires for traction and it was pretty darn loud but still it was not as loud as I had hoped for...but still it was much louder than any of the other cars that had raced...I was happy.
So he sets up at the start line and I watch the christmas lights go off as he gets ready to run down the track ..yellow, then green.....he takes off...my chest literally shook , all of my guts seemed to vibrate violently and I heard the loudest sound I have ever heard in my entire life. IT WAS LOUD!!!!!!!!
This was a single car that ran the track...now two cars were lining up!!! Posted Image I can't even begin to explain how loud these two cars were I listened to them race down the track without covering my ears up, I did this once, for the rest of the races I had to cover my ears for actual fear of losing my hearing.

#4 of 19 OFFLINE   Greg Monfort

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Posted July 29 2001 - 12:13 PM

HeHe, if you think they're loud off the line, go stand down at the traps right where they pull the 'chutes and the air drag is adding some thunder of its own. Posted Image

These things ~instantly damage your hearing due to the high SPL harmonics over 1sec in duration, yet often you see kids, even infants, with no hearing protection. Damaged goods before they even have a chance to enjoy youthful hearing.

I have a buddy who used to wrench for John Force. He never wore any protection and now at 40, he's very hard of hearing.

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Loud is beautiful, if it's clean
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#5 of 19 OFFLINE   James W. Johnson

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Posted July 29 2001 - 12:48 PM

HeHe, if you think they're loud off the line, go stand down at the traps right where they pull the 'chutes and the air drag is adding some thunder of its own. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Really,the parachutes are noisy? Yes it was sad to see a few kids with no ear protection, like I said I tried it once without and could not imagine how I would feel today if I listened to every Top Fuel and Funny car race without covering my ears, there must have been a good 30 races. [Edited last by James W. Johnson on July 29, 2001 at 03:51 PM]

#6 of 19 OFFLINE   Julian Data

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Posted July 29 2001 - 01:30 PM

James,

Yep.. they are! Posted Image


I could get Ron Capps in here to chime.

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#7 of 19 OFFLINE   John_Lee

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Posted July 30 2001 - 05:58 AM

I have been to many NHRA events, and while top fuel is loud, 'super loud' is redefined when the jet cars [or jet semis] take the stage. Though they are more of a novelty act [in the 1/4 mile, top fuel actually beats them because top fuel uses traction off the line, versus jet propulsion], the sound out those jets are so concussive that I wouldn't be surprised is someday they don't lead to a bleachers collapse.

#8 of 19 OFFLINE   DanWiggins

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Posted July 30 2001 - 06:33 AM

James,

I see you made it down to SIR over the weekend? I was hoping to make it, but didn't get a chance. Yes, there's really nothing quite like a pair of rails flying by at 250 MPH. The bass output - even 80 feet away outdoors - is overwhelming.

Of course, with 5,000 HP on tap, it better be! Posted Image

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#9 of 19 OFFLINE   Greg Monfort

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Posted July 30 2001 - 09:35 PM

>Really,the parachutes are noisy? ==== You bet, but what I was primarily referring to is the noise a T/F aerodynamic barn door makes ripping through the air at 300+mph before they pop the 'chutes. ==== >I could get Ron Capps in here to chime. ==== Cool! ==== >'super loud' is redefined when the jet cars..... ==== Yes, I remember experiencing Art Arfon's Green Monster. My personal high SPL though was a Saturn V booster preliminary test over at MSFC. I have no idea how loud it was where I was at, but hearing protection didn't seem to help much, though of course it did or I would be deaf now. It was like nothing I've ever heard/felt before or since, and I've experienced a 500lb bomb simulator closer than I care to (and damn glad I never had to experience the real thing). GM ------------------ Loud is beautiful, if it's clean
Loud Is Beautiful, If It's Clean

#10 of 19 OFFLINE   Jack Gilvey

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Posted July 31 2001 - 04:54 AM

What's a bomb simulator? I want one.
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#11 of 19 OFFLINE   David-alexander

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Posted August 01 2001 - 01:21 PM

the Saturne V engine produce 170dB I think. it can crush bones Posted Image

a 9mm is rated at 132dB I think.

now, on the question, put the subs in different place in the room. measure each time the highest SPL pressure. the highest of all should be the place to locate the subs. but it's not always that simple... Posted Image

or place the subs in many different places in the room, starting with corners, and measure the pressure at the listening position: you could end up with putting the subs right next to the sofa or seats or behind them. sometimes, room modes surprise Posted Image

being at the null point of bass wavelength is the worse that can happen.

#12 of 19 OFFLINE   Greg Monfort

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Posted August 01 2001 - 02:58 PM

The simulator was a 7Hz 1/4WL basshorn driven by a 40hp air compressor and built like a railroad car for moving it around. The HF was an air raid horn type array. Peak output was ~175dB/400Hz IIRC. GM ------------------ Loud is beautiful, if it's clean
Loud Is Beautiful, If It's Clean

#13 of 19 OFFLINE   Peter Johnson

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Posted August 01 2001 - 05:16 PM

Interesting fact about the rockets...the water underneath the launch pad, which I thought was to keep it all cool.

Its reason is actually to damp the vibrations caused by the engines (ie the 170dB noise). Without it, the rocket would literally shake itself apart, and never get off the ground..

The wonders of discovery channel Posted Image

#14 of 19 OFFLINE   Greg Monfort

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Posted August 01 2001 - 06:03 PM

>Interesting fact about the rockets...the water underneath the launch pad, which I thought was to keep it all cool. Its reason is actually to damp the vibrations caused by the engines (ie the 170dB noise). Without it, the rocket would literally shake itself apart, and never get off the ground. ==== This may/may not be a factor, I don't know (seems reasonable though), but FWIW, the reason given to me by an engineer at the time of the early test I experienced was to keep the concrete pad from exploding as the blast deflectors weren't adequate. He made his point by applying heat to a spot on the floor we were standing on with a propane torch. Sure enough, it exploded. GM ------------------ Loud is beautiful, if it's clean
Loud Is Beautiful, If It's Clean

#15 of 19 OFFLINE   Cam S

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Posted January 14 2002 - 09:40 PM

I was reading a topic a while ago about a huge horn that has been (apparently) used in germany for crowd control. The huge horn played at 5hz or so, and from an eye witness account made everyone lose control of their bowels, hahaha. Anyone else heard of this, cuz dam that would be funny to do to friends???
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#16 of 19 OFFLINE   Dustin B

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Posted January 14 2002 - 10:05 PM

If a Saturn V is 170dB then those car audio contests are even scarrier than I thought. Isn't the current record in the 170dB range.
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#17 of 19 OFFLINE   Ron Shaw

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Posted January 15 2002 - 08:36 AM

If you really want to approach these levels it will take horn loading. I have plans for a 'W' horn, good for 50Hz freestanding. Use in multiples (or in a corner) to extend response. A single 'W' horn is 6 ft. wide, 36 in. deep, and 40 in. tall, and takes 2 15" drivers. A single unit can achieve up to about 140db at 1 meter, depending on the drivers employed. Each doubling on units adds 6 db. Guaranteed to loosen bowels and cause nose and ear bleeding.

#18 of 19 OFFLINE   Greg Monfort

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Posted January 15 2002 - 10:00 AM

Doing a little research, a ramjet gets to 170dB at the source, the Saturn V is 195dB, and a naval 12" cannon is 200dB 1ft away and 1ft below the muzzle.



Air gets rarefied at ~176dB and turns into a shock wave at ~194dB.



Don't guess we'll be reproducing the cannon in the 1812 Overture at live levels without resorting to lighting one off in the room. Posted Image



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#19 of 19 OFFLINE   Scott Simonian

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Posted January 15 2002 - 10:03 AM

Anyone hear know how to make an alignment like he suggested? Sounds like what Im looking for.
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