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***Official TPM Audio thread (Lasderdisc comparison, Volume probs, charts, etc)


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#1 of 264 OFFLINE   Gruson

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Posted October 10 2001 - 02:19 AM

Bad news guys, as others have said, the audio on SW: The Phantom Menace is VERY low and VERY lacking.

I own the LD and have always been amazed at the quality of the sound. I finally found the DVD yesterday and put it into my player.

I read reports about the DVD being lower than the LD but I also found the LFE channel not nearly as strong and the whole front sound stage sounds "muffled", you could say, when compared to the LD.

The laserdisc sound really brings you into the movie. I even turned the volume up REALLY loud on the DVD but it did not have the same effect as the LD.

Please do not get me wrong, the DVD sounds good but it is like comparing the Jurassic Park DTS LD to the old Jurassic Park DTS DVD.

I even had a friend and my brother come over and compare the 2 and the agree with me.

Now, the anamorphic picture looks much better than the LD but the sound just pales in comparison.

Thumbs down. Major dissapointment here. I will be watching the LD when I watch Episode 1.

I can only hope there is a better release down the road.

Why would they not use the same kick ass LD audio track?!?!?!

My equipment is below.

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Equipment:
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See it:
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#2 of 264 OFFLINE   Doug Schiller

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Posted October 10 2001 - 02:30 AM

I thought we would have to wait a week to announce the winner of the first "LD sounds much better than DVD version" post.

I wish I could bet on things like this.

At least this is one of the last releases that this will happen with.

Doug

P.S. As an owner of the LD, I'm eagerly waiting to do the comparison. I haven't been disappointed yet (SPR included).


#3 of 264 OFFLINE   Rob Gillespie

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Posted October 10 2001 - 02:31 AM

I found the bass on the LD too strong. I had to drop it by 3-4db to get it sounding 'right'. I don't have to do this with the DVD.
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#4 of 264 OFFLINE   bill lopez

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Posted October 10 2001 - 02:37 AM

I thought they fixed the problem when laserdiscs sound better than dvds. Dang!

#5 of 264 OFFLINE   Gruson

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Posted October 10 2001 - 02:42 AM

Hey all, this was posted at AVSforum:

"The DD 5.1 EX soundtrack is NO GOOD either. The DVD sounds a LOT flatter and rolloff in both high and low end compared to the LD AC3 soundtrack. Another case as the SPR and JP DVD soundtrack problem compared to the LD version. Many of you will never hear the Japanese LD AC3 EX soundtrack so you'll still think the DVD sounds great. I can't!"

"Overall, a REAL disappointment and shame on Lucas and Fox and THX"

Biggest dissapointment of the year Posted Image




#6 of 264 OFFLINE   Doug Schiller

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Posted October 10 2001 - 02:49 AM

Make sure you keep reading that post for Robert George's reply...

Quote:
As for the soundtrack, there is the issue of dialnorm to take into account. The DVD uses the default setting of -27dBFS where the LD was either -31dBFS (or no dialnorm at all). That will account for 4dB of the overall level difference between these two. Also, one has to assume the soundtrack on the import LD (Pioneer Japan) was likely prepared by someone other than those that did this DVD. This is obviously opinion, but I find the DVD a more pleasing track and the LD now sounds even more bloated and "overcooked" than it did before. The DVD sounds more balanced and natural by comparison.

Doug

#7 of 264 OFFLINE   Rob Gillespie

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Posted October 10 2001 - 02:49 AM

I think anyone who states that the DVD soundtrack is 'no good' is in need of a dose of reality.
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#8 of 264 OFFLINE   Michael Reuben

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Posted October 10 2001 - 02:53 AM

Quote:
I thought we would have to wait a week to announce the winner of the first "LD sounds much better than DVD version" post.
Well it isn't this thread.

http://www.hometheat....ML/031510.html

M.
COMPLETE list of my disc reviews.       HTF Rules / 200920102011 Film Lists

#9 of 264 OFFLINE   Gruson

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Posted October 10 2001 - 02:54 AM

Rob, I have done the comparisons and I do not need a "dose of reality."

The DVD does sound good, like I said, but it does not compare to the audio on the LD in my opinion (and others).



#10 of 264 OFFLINE   RobertR

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Posted October 10 2001 - 02:54 AM

Good replies, Rob and Doug. I also think that Bjoern Roy's graphical comparisons will be useful, and more objective.

#11 of 264 OFFLINE   Grant B

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Posted October 10 2001 - 02:54 AM

I happen to watch the Ld the day before I saw the pre-released TPM at the Widescreen Review open House.
The whole time I'm watching it wondering what the hell is wrong when a DVD on the State-of-the-art system falls short of LD on a bottomfeeder system

------------------
Why?
Why do you keep hounding me and harassing me and hounding me?
It's not like I don't have anything better to do, you know.
It's not like the Phantom Cruiser is going to wax itself.
It's not like last night's burrito stain will just up and remove itself from my cape.
I am a superhero!
A very very busy superhero! Who does...things!
Now get out of here before I tell your mother.
AND DON'T TRAMPLE MY BEGONIAS!
-Space Ghost..

"Whatever it is, I'm against it!" G. Marx

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#12 of 264 OFFLINE   BrettB

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Posted October 10 2001 - 03:04 AM

Quote:
I thought we would have to wait a week to announce the winner of the first "LD sounds much better than DVD version" post.

I wish I could bet on things like this.

You can! Vegas had Oct 17, 3:24 PM Central set as day & time for this thread to appear, but when word of E1 hitting shelves early in a major way got out it was pushed up to Oct 9, 9:57 PM Central. Call your bookie quick and you still might be able to bet on the appearance of the "Snow White's Colors Are All Wrong" thread. Posted Image

Posted Image

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God Bless America



#13 of 264 OFFLINE   Rob Gillespie

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Posted October 10 2001 - 03:08 AM

OK, we're off into the land of subjective viewpoints here.

I no longer have the LD but I'll give you my thoughts anyway.

The LD was very loud. The only disc I've had which plays at that kind of level is the Private Ryan LD. The DVD plays lower, maybe a little lower than I'm used to but it's hardly an issue (for me). I never play anything at reference level (too loud for the room). The DVD I play at around -13 or -14. The LD I could barely get above -20 before thinking it was too damn loud.

The bass on the LD I always found to be overbearing. My Boston VR2000 could handle it very well, but it just felt too much. Bass heavy and over-exaggerated. I had to reduce the LD LFE level by 3 or 4db to get it sounding 'right'. I don't have to do this with the DVD. The bass is still very strong, but it's also more balanced. It's NOTHING like the faulty DTS JP DVD which sounds weak on my system.

You say the front soundstage is 'muffled'. It's not on my system. It sounds bright (but not fatuiging) and clear. I can't say much else, really.

I have no way of knowing the real deal, but the LD just felt a little 'overcooked'. I like the DVD a lot and I can't in all honesty say that I have any real complaints about it.

So sue me! Posted Image
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#14 of 264 OFFLINE   Gruson

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Posted October 10 2001 - 03:17 AM

Sorry, perhaps instead of saying "muffled", I should say the DVD's sound is not as dynamic as the LD and the DVD sounds flatter.

I prefer the "overcooked" LD.



#15 of 264 OFFLINE   mark_d

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Posted October 10 2001 - 03:18 AM

From DVDFile (my review site of choice:
"While the transfer is near-perfection, the soundtrack beats it - it is simply the best Dolby Digital track I have ever heard on DVD. This is the most aggressive mix since Saving Private Ryan"

I look forward to hearing this "lacking" sound mix Posted Image

I heard the movie in a pretty decent cinema and was knocked out by the dynamics and how tight and deep the bass was. It wasn't over boomy, which is what I'm imagining the LD sounded like.

I've had two copies shipped - one on Monday, the other yesterday, but the postie hasn't delivered one yet...

Mark

#16 of 264 OFFLINE   Lewis Besze

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Posted October 10 2001 - 03:29 AM

Quote:
I happen to watch the Ld the day before I saw the pre-released TPM at the Widescreen Review open House.The whole time I'm watching it wondering what the hell is wrong when a DVD on the State-of-the-art system falls short of LD on a bottomfeeder system
I'm not familiar with your set up but I've heard the WSR's rig,on the Haunting and U-.571 dvd's.Arguably the 2 of the bassiest dvd's out there,and on several bass notes those tower subs and mains and center were bottoming out,sometimes badly.
In fariness the system was put togheter the night before literaly,and they haven't had time to fine tune it,and this was the only caveat that I had with it.
Also the bass was smooth and free from any frequency humps like the typical 40hz room induced spike,which many confuse it with "more" or "better" bass.
I also thought that the TPM LD was "overcooked",a bit.

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"You Hungarians always disagree"


#17 of 264 OFFLINE   RobertR

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Posted October 10 2001 - 03:38 AM

Some people think more bass = better bass and better bass = more bass.

Others think it's not that simple.

#18 of 264 OFFLINE   mark_d

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Posted October 10 2001 - 03:44 AM

Amen RobertR

Mark

#19 of 264 OFFLINE   Gruson

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Posted October 10 2001 - 03:54 AM

The Ep. 1 LD supporters, like myself, are not just talking about the bass but the overall sound mix.

As David600 says from AVS,

It's time someone runs comparative charts of the two tracks but I'm utterly convinced a different mix has been used. No wonder, different companies did the mixes (Pioneer vs FOX/Skywalker ranch ).
It seems it is not only a dialnorm issue but a mix issue, as it was for the DTS (and dolby !!) dvds of JP and LW vs their ld fathers.
and on HTF they were already teasing/warning the ld owners on the possibility the dvd matches or beats up the laserdisc....... I'm rolling on the floor!
Now, the argument raised is that the ld is not faithful to the theatrical track but cooked up........ I'm rolling on the floor again!!!!!!!!!!!!!
same people will say to us to raise then the volume while playing the dvd............. well, third time I'm on the floor...... "

The mixes are not the same. To each their own, I guess.



#20 of 264 OFFLINE   Mark Zimmer

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Posted October 10 2001 - 04:11 AM

Haven't heard the DVD yet, but just thought I'd chime in and mention that when I saw it in a DTS theater, Ep. 1 sounded pretty weak and not very impressive at all. I've been ready to be disappointed ever since the movie premiered. The LD obviously must have been overcooked if it features all the bass you folks are claiming (or are you just trying to justify the $100 you paid for an LD that now is essentially valueless?)

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"This movie has warped my fragile little mind."


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