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Sequels that have ruined the original..


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#1 of 75 OFFLINE   Chris

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Posted December 16 2002 - 05:30 PM

There is no doubt about it, when I think of films that fall into this category, I always think of "Highlander" and "Highlander 2" as much as I love the original, the sequels take away from how good the original was, and in some ways sully it.

I was talking to friends recently over the excitement about another action oriented sequel.. The Matrix 2 & 3 (Reloaded/Revolutions) I get it.. they are great people to do it, should be good.. but someone in our group suggested that which had crossed my mind at least once: let's pray it's not Highlander 2.

Have you ever looked in dread at an upcoming sequel and thought "for as original and unique as the first movie was, shouldn't they have been well enough leaving it alone?" Posted Image

(not saying I will not go to the future Matrix movies; I look forward to them, just the thought re: anti-sequel)
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#2 of 75 OFFLINE   Bernhard

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Posted December 16 2002 - 07:24 PM

Definetly Alien³. It basically made all the struggles in the second one pointless in its first 5 minutes. Posted Image
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#3 of 75 OFFLINE   Ricardo C

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Posted December 16 2002 - 07:30 PM

"Braveheart 2: Hamish and Stephen Hit the Road" was too big a departure from the original. I was willing to go along with it at first, but when they got to modern-day Palm Springs, I knew it was all over.

Posted Image

I'd have to say "Porky's 2" wrecked it for me. Oh, don't laugh. The original "Porky's" was pretty darn good, as far as low-brow sex comedies go.

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#4 of 75 OFFLINE   Yee-Ming

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Posted December 16 2002 - 07:36 PM

Quote:
the sequels take away from how good the original was, and in some ways sully it.

Chris, that is an understatement. H2 is a complete abomination. it completely disregards the premise of the original: suddenly they are exiled aliens??!!?!?!??

at least H3 ignored the nonsense raised in H2 and returned to the initial premise of H1, but with the "cute" exemption that Peebles's character had been buried and therefore did not factor as another immortal when Connor was "the only one" left.

if someone gives me a copy of H3 I might grudgingly watch it again (I own the limited edn tin-box version of Highlander -- to give you an idea of what I think of it), but I doubt I'd ever watch H2 again, even out of curiousity to see why I disliked it so much.

edit (to add more sequels): let's add Jaws 2, Speed 2, Scary Movie 2 (some would say the first was crap too, but hey, it's a guilty pleasure), More American Graffitti (or whatever it's called) to the list.

G3? I would say that it's not bad, just not great as compared to its more illustrious forebears.

French Connection 2? haven't watched yet, although I bought the 2-pack box, will reserve judgment until I have.

Police Academy series? the first few were pretty good (not great), but by 4 it was all getting rather tired.

and finally, Empire Strikes Back. worst sequel ever.

(just kidding! Posted Image make that BEST sequel ever.)

#5 of 75 OFFLINE   Andy Olivera

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Posted December 16 2002 - 07:48 PM

Have either of you seen the director's cut of Highlander 2? The "alien" backstory was added at the last minute and is completely removed, among other not-so-minor changes. Yes, there is a backstory that wasn't mentioned in the original, but it doesn't contradict it. Besides, all good sequels have to add something to the previous film.

I would say that Aliens ruined Alien, but that was only after I read all the extras on the Alien LD. Well, I guess that would mean the extras ruined it, but I still think Cameron took the idea in the wrong direction and Fincher attempted to bring it back to its origins. Sorry, but I never miss an opportunity to complain about this.Posted Image
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#6 of 75 OFFLINE   Yee-Ming

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Posted December 16 2002 - 08:09 PM

Andy:

I was not aware that there was a director's cut that removed the abominable alien business. now that you mention it, I might revisit H2 if I somehow come across it; I won't really go looking, I have too many DVDs already in my backlog (e.g. 5 seasons of ST:TNG for starters).

first time I've seen someone so vocal about putting down Aliens. I am one of those who actually prefers Alien, but still enjoys Aliens in its own right. any specific examples of the extras that "ruined Alien" by way of Aliens? I don't have the LD, only the Legacy boxset.

#7 of 75 OFFLINE   Andy Olivera

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Posted December 16 2002 - 09:38 PM

Well, my problem isn't that Aliens is a bad film. In fact, it's excellent, though not up to the original. The extras I speak of might actually be included on the DVD(some of them, anyway). Look for some script excerpts(and very cool conceptual drawings) of a pyramid and a longer progression of events after the Nostromo lands.

Originally, when the crew visited the derelict they found the Space Jockey, but no eggs. They did, however, find a pyramid shape etched in the Jockey's console. They then return to the Nostromo. A few hours later(after the sun comes up and the storm clears; I can't remember what happens in the meantime) they spot a pyramid on the horizon. They make a second excursion there, which is where they find the eggs. In addition, in the pyramid are a number of drawings depicting the alien's lifecycle(egg, facehugger, chestburster, adult, egg; no queen). By removing the pyramid they threw away a very interesting mythology and allowed Cameron to add the queen(very mundane in comparison).

One of the deleted scenes contains part of the mythology(when Ripley finds Brett and Dallas). It was taken out for pacing, but isn't missed because the pyramid was removed, too. If the scene were kept, however, it would've closed a significant(to me) plot hole. Nevermind that the bodies(Brett and Dallas) completely vanishing is never explained, but it would explain the derelict and the eggs found there. Where did all those eggs come from? They were what was left of the derelict's crew. The original script never mentioned what exactly happened on the derelict, but it can be safely assumed because the exact same thing was happening on the Nostromo.

I even came up with a way the pyramid could've been brought up in a sequel had Cameron refrained from changing the lifecycle and cementing the idea that the aliens weren't indigenous to LV-426. Suppose the blast that destroyed the facility(and also the derelict) at the end of Aliens didn't destroy the pyramid?

Essentially, my complaint about Aliens ruining everything is more in terms of a missed opportunity. Cameron took the series in one of two possible directions; he chose the less interesting one.

Again, I'm not sure how much of this is on the DVD, but hopefully Fox will use all the contents of the LD on the upcoming reissues. Everybody who loves this series should know how it originally went.

BTW, the Highlander 2 DC is labeled "Renegade Version"...Posted Image
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#8 of 75 OFFLINE   DavidAC

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Posted December 16 2002 - 11:36 PM

Quote:
Nevermind that the bodies(Brett and Dallas) completely vanishing is never explained, but it would explain the derelict and the eggs found there. Where did all those eggs come from? They were what was left of the derelict's crew. The original script never mentioned what exactly happened on the derelict, but it can be safely assumed because the exact same thing was happening on the Nostromo.


Well I always figured the derelict ship was like a cargo ship with the Space Jockey being the unfortunate bastard transporting the eggs to an unspecified destination. Somehow one of the eggs was disturbed and a facehugger attached itself to the Space Jockey. After the facehugger later dies after impregnation the Space Jockey lands on LV-426, an uninhabited planet at the time to prevent infestation, and sends out the warning signal to not approach before it dies. I think the deleted scene with Brett and Dallas was showing the instictive nature of the Alien to coccon Dallas and Brett and bring back an egg for impregnation.

Quote:
I even came up with a way the pyramid could've been brought up in a sequel had Cameron refrained from changing the lifecycle and cementing the idea that the aliens weren't indigenous to LV-426. Suppose the blast that destroyed the facility(and also the derelict) at the end of Aliens didn't destroy the pyramid?


I think Cameron's take on the lifecycle makes more sense really plus it made Aliens all the more exciting with the Queen at the end. I think they could still tread in the origin of the Alien though through a prequel perhaps, or even a sequel, maybe even the Alien Vs. Predator movie on the horizon might touch on it.

Still while I liked Alien it was nowhere near as exciting as Aliens. Alien 3 on the other hand... Bleh! Alien 4 was worse.

#9 of 75 OFFLINE   Rob Gillespie

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Posted December 17 2002 - 12:32 AM

Quote:
Originally, when the crew visited the derelict they found the Space Jockey, but no eggs. They did, however, find a pyramid shape etched in the Jockey's console.

But none of this was in the film Andy. Whatever changes were made from the initial ideas, Cameron's film does follow on and does make sense from what we actually *saw* in the first movie.
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#10 of 75 OFFLINE   Chuck L

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Posted December 17 2002 - 12:56 AM

Personally Alien3 is my favorite of the series.

Following the events of the first two films, Alien3 is, at least to me, a natural progression of the chacaters. Ripley had to lose those things around her in order for her to make the final sacrifice, herself, for humanity. Wonderful film.

#11 of 75 OFFLINE   Qui-Gon John

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Posted December 17 2002 - 02:01 AM

Yee-Ming I'm with you on Scary Movie 1 and 2.

I loved #1. I thought they did very well incorporating the various spoofs and what not into the story line.

However #2 was horrible. Just lame bits and pieces thrown in, IMHO.

#12 of 75 OFFLINE   Micheal

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Posted December 17 2002 - 02:34 AM

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Definetly Alien³. It basically made all the struggles in the second one pointless in its first 5 minutes.


I agree. I still "like" Alien³ but the beginning really pisses me off.Posted Image
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#13 of 75 OFFLINE   Jeff Kleist

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Posted December 17 2002 - 02:45 AM

Quote:
The "alien" backstory was added at the last minute and is completely removed, among other not-so-minor changes. Yes, there is a backstory that wasn't mentioned in the original, but it doesn't contradict it. Besides, all good sequels have to add something to the previous film.


Umm, no it doesn't remove it. It just dubs over every mention of the word "Zeist" with (bad kung fu dub voice) THE PAST. The hell it doesn't contradict the original. The whole point was that being an Immortal was random, like being gay it was uncontrollable. The whole Zeist crap is ludicrous.

It still makes no sense, and wrecks the entire concept

This being said, at least the Renegade version now works as a narrative. It still sucks, but it doesn't suck nearly as hard Posted Image

#14 of 75 OFFLINE   todd s

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Posted December 17 2002 - 03:29 AM

Second runner up...."Meatballs sequels"
First runner up....."Slap Shot 2"

And the Winner is....."Caddyshack 2"

I refuse to see both for fear that it would ruin the classic originals.
Bring back John Doe! Or at least resolve the cliff-hanger with a 2hr movie or as an extra on a dvd release.

#15 of 75 OFFLINE   TheLongshot

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Posted December 17 2002 - 03:30 AM

Highlander sequals? You mean there were some? Posted Image

As a button I have said, there should have only been one.

My understanding about Highlander 2 is that Mulchay went way over budget and had the film taken away from him by the financeers, who made the cut and dumped it into the theaters. The Renegade version tries to fix the film, but as Jeff says, you can't polish a turd.

That being said, I've always thought that Michael Ironside was fun, and having Sean Connery making a cameo was also fun, tho it didn't make much sense in the plot.

Getting back on subject, more sequels that put off the original:

American Pie 2
Austin Powers 2 + 3

Movies that prove that the creators didn't have any more ideas from the first film.

Edit: Just thought of another one: Most of the Police Acadamy sequels.

Jason

#16 of 75 OFFLINE   Qui-Gon John

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Posted December 17 2002 - 04:10 AM

Hey Jason, one time ... at band camp ... Posted Image

#17 of 75 Guest_DAN NEIR_*

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Posted December 17 2002 - 04:29 AM

I'd have to go w/
Alien 3 - By far the worst piece of crap ever and it totally ruined the previous movies as well as buried the franchise. I can not comment enough on how I hate this movie. In my mind this movie never happened.
Speed 2 - Best move Keanu ever made was saying no to this garbage.
Batman and Robin - Has to be tied w/ Alien 3 for me as one of the worst sequels ever made. Schumacher should never be allowed to make a movie again!
Highlander 2 - Another bad film.
Other bad sequels would have to be, King Kong Lives,Halloween 3(Sorry but the title Halloween should be taken off this movie),Jaws 2-4,Godfather 3, and Conan the Destroyer(OOOOOHHHH is this another bad one!) Oh, I almost forgot, Superman 3 and 4. My God were these bad!!!!

#18 of 75 OFFLINE   EricW

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Posted December 17 2002 - 04:42 AM

how can a bad sequel ruin the original? two of my all time faves are Ghostbusters and Major League. both have sequels that (i consider) are very, very, bad. i just don't watch them again. when i first did, i cringed, but then i got over them and forgot about them.
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#19 of 75 OFFLINE   Rob Gardiner

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Posted December 17 2002 - 04:50 AM

Psycho 2

#20 of 75 OFFLINE   Chad R

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Posted December 17 2002 - 05:03 AM

Arthur 2: On the Rocks
More American Grafitti
2010
Hannibal (maybe not ruins it, but I have a sick feeling in my stomach if I watch SOTL knowing that Hannibal exists - even the book was horrible)


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