Where can I find some info about choosing the right home theatre sub? (1 Viewer)

[Robert_J]

I've also added my old 30W active sub to make 380RMS of bass

Your goal is output. That is like saying you have a vehicle with 500 horse power. If your goal is speed, which one do you want? A race car, street legal car, a Kenworth dump truck, a tractor or a bull dozer? They can all have 500hp.
Think of this sub as the race car. With only about 5 watts of power, he's hitting over 120db at 21hz. That's amazing. There are guys putting 2 and 4 of these in their rooms.
[VIDEO]http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=--7My1qU1Eg[/VIDEO]

 

[VanillaRice]

Yes Robert, subs are definitely a science that I'm yet to fully understand. After experimenting with the 2 subs yesterday the difference is simple, one sub I can hear and the other one I can feel. With your logic as described in your previous posts, with a larger sub (say 12'', 15'' or higher) I should be able to feel it more even of they're running off less power. Enclosure dependent of course. With the idea being physics are at work and not a smaller sub having to work its ass off to achieve the same results.
Unfortunately most home theater brands don't cater for such large subs unless you have very deep pockets. So the DIY choice is the only feasible option for most. Then you need to be a good carpenter because for me a tidy setup is paramount. I don't want to sound vein but if it looks ugly I'd do my best to hide it because I don't want speakers and sub boxes to dominate my lounge room.

 

[schan1269]

The best part of DIY???
You can cover your speakers(sub in this case) in whatever you want.
If you can find the same flooring that you already have..or at least close, use that to cover the sub once built...then it won't be an eyesore.
I did an outdoor home theater for a neighbor. I ended up painting the sub in the same "rock paint" they painted all the flower pots in.

 

[Robert_J]

With your logic as described in your previous posts, with a larger sub (say 12'', 15'' or higher) I should be able to feel it more even of they're running off less power. Enclosure dependent of course. With the idea being physics are at work and not a smaller sub having to work its ass off to achieve the same results.

Not my logic but Hoffman's. He's the H in KLH speaker fame. The less work a sub is doing, the less distortion it has. In fact, a sub should never bring attention to itself unless the material calls for it.

Then you need to be a good carpenter because for me a tidy setup is paramount.

All you need is basic woodworking skills. It's a box with one or more holes in it. The speakers I'm currently working on are being painted with rattle can spray paint. I did take my time and use a lot of techniques used in painting cars (see You Tube for those).

I don't want speakers and sub boxes to dominate my lounge room

Rarely do I turn on all of the lights in the theater. I could easily get by with black paint rolled or brushed on and no one would notice but my wife.

 

[aerialacoustics]

Then you need to be a good carpenter because for me a tidy setup is paramount.

All you need is basic woodworking skills.

OR, a better job, LMAO!

 

[VanillaRice]

I think I've gotten the bass "bug" because I'm already thinking about adding more sub's.
I'm more than happy with my M6AS. But as a project I'm thinking 2x15's and a nice enclosure would be epic. Might be a litle too expensive though so I'll have to be realistic according to my budget.
Robert and other resident Audiophiles I will seek your advice with potential sub/amp/enclosure options.

 

[VanillaRice]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=491367839&permanent=0
me like.
After some quick research it's clear to me the plate amp is going to be the problem. Subs are a dime a dozen in this country.

There are some Asian manufacturers that will sell direct. Since they are all made closer to you, I don't see why they wouldn't be available locally.

I will begin my seach, even importing from Australia is quite expensive.
I browsed some local audio forums and noticed one guy imported from "parts-express.com". I just checked the shipping cost for a plate amp and it was around $180usd! I must have other options here.

 

[Robert_J]

http://www.soundstream.com/AudioProducts/Subwoofers/tarantula.htm
The full T/S parameters for the T5 series are listed but not for the T6. Without those parameters, we are just guessing when designing an enclosure.

 

[VanillaRice]

Hmm that is a problem. I might try to request it from them. Failing that I'm sure there are other choices, but that price is reasonably good and I may be able to get a deal for 2.

 

[VanillaRice]

http://www.soundstream.com/AudioProducts/Subwoofers/tarantula.htm
The full T/S parameters for the T5 series are listed but not for the T6. Without those parameters, we are just guessing when designing an enclosure.

Here you go robert, I got in touch with tech support.

or PDF: [ATTACHMENT=323]Tarantula T6.pdf (217k. pdf file)[/ATTACHMENT]

 

[Robert_J]

Large and sealed is your best bet. I also suggest a pro amp to power it with. Behringer makes some great ones that don't cost that much. I've been running an EP-2500 for a few years. It will be a day or 2 before I can model up an enclosure but like I said earlier, the larger the better. How much space are you willing to give up?

 

[VanillaRice]

How much space are you willing to give up?

I don't know if you saw my lounge room pic but I have a lot a space. Roughly ~ Depth: 1.2m Width: 70cm Height: 60cm (sorry it's not ft and inches lol) This is approximate size limitations for a 2 x 15" enclosure. If hampered by budget limitations due to lack of affordable amps in NZ I may have to downscale to 1x15" but would prefer not to.
I'm not at home as I write this so haven't been able to measure it. I will measure up properly when I get home.
I spent a long time yesterday looking locally for amps to power 2 x 1000rms subs and they are all way over my budget. You guys are very lucky with parts express and that amp you have is the best value I've seen by far. Unfortunately your one is only available in 110V (or is it, can you confirm please?) I see there is a 1x1000rms @ 4ohm amp that is 230v compatible so there must be more. The only problem is getting it here. Shipping is astronomical so I may have to co-incide buying this with a trip to the states at some point.

 

[Robert_J]

Fortunately, I'm fluent in converting metric to English measurements. Based on your measurements, I used the standard 3/4" thickness for all sides and a 1.5" double thick baffle to come up with approximately 14.8 cubic feet. By the time you properly brace it, you will end up with about 12 cubic feet total. That means 6 feet per sub. More than enough air space. In fact, you could go sealed or ported. If you go with a pro amp, then I recommend sealed.

Unfortunately your one is only available in 110V (or is it, can you confirm please?)

Behringer is a German company so there has to be a 230v version. I'm pretty sure another forum member in Pakistan ended up with a Behringer in 220v.
You can also order directly from a Chinese company called Sanway - http://www.china-sanway.com/Product.asp?BigClassName=FP-new%20series%20Switching%20Power%20Amplifier A lot of guys in the US have ordered their FP-14000 in 220v. Yes, that is a 14,000 watt amp. One guy on another forum bought 4 for his eight 18" subs. Their e-mail is through gmail with the name sanway.audio

 

[VanillaRice]

I've found one or 2 local shops selling Behringer amps but price is still high. Your ep4000 is $1000nz. I can get an ep2500 2nd hand for $500nz but I don't think it will be powerful enough. I will continue the search.

 

[Robert_J]

The EP-2500 and EP-4000 are the exact same amp with a different model number on the front. I use the EP-2500 on dual 15's and I can shake my entire house. It's more than powerful enough.
My theater, my amp. That's a Stryke Audio/TC Sounds TC2+ 12" sub, my Behringer and then my center channel all stacked on top of each other. The Behringer is powering the TC Sounds TC-3000 15" sub on the right. There is an identical one on the left as well. Both are wired at 2 ohms getting 800w/channel at 20 hz.

 

[VanillaRice]

So you have no problems running them at 2ohm? This could provide the same amount of power and is brand new not 2nd hand:
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=491041173
Don't know about the brand though.

 

[Robert_J]

That's a Chinese knock-off of a QSC amp. I don't see that it is rated at 2 ohms though. The Behringer has no problem running at 2 ohms stereo. I even swapped the factory fan for a quiet model.

 

[VanillaRice]

Ok, I saw the 2 x 800w but that is probably max power at 4ohms. Not 2 x 800Wrms at 2ohms. If that's the case then I will try and chase up the ep-2500 then.
I thought you said you were running an ep-4000 in another post, or did I read that wrong?

 

[Robert_J]

I freely use both model numbers so people aren't confused. Since they are the same amp inside, I don't want people to go looking for the 2500 and thinking it is a smaller amp. Behringer just added a peak power rating and bumped up the model numbers. The EP-1500 is now the EP-2000. The EP-2500 is now the EP-4000. But neither put out their RMS power in the instruction manual. Behringer tests their amps at 1khz. The lower the frequency, the more difficult for the amp to reproduce. The real rating of the EP-2500/4000 is 800w into 2 ohms at 20hz. But this is the same for all pro amps that state their power at 1khz.

 

[VanillaRice]

I freely use both model numbers so people aren't confused. Since they are the same amp inside, I don't want people to go looking for the 2500 and thinking it is a smaller amp. Behringer just added a peak power rating and bumped up the model numbers. The EP-1500 is now the EP-2000. The EP-2500 is now the EP-4000. But neither put out their RMS power in the instruction manual. Behringer tests their amps at 1khz. The lower the frequency, the more difficult for the amp to reproduce. The real rating of the EP-2500/4000 is 800w into 2 ohms at 20hz. But this is the same for all pro amps that state their power at 1khz.

Thanks for clearing that up.
This is what I want then. Only 1 that I can find anywhere. Might try to get the price down, but evidence suggests these have been sold for $1000nz new here.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=492615566
That only leaves the subs and enclosure. I'm not 100% sure on soundstream subwoofers. But for a 1000wrms 15" the price is good. What has me confused is why the older models are being sold second hand for more than the price of a new latest model People claim they bought their T5-15" for $1000 but I can get the T6-15" which can play 5hz lower for $400nz new
T/S Specs comparison (am I missing something here?):