I've just had 'the' conversation with my supervisor (1 Viewer)

[Todd Hochard]

these people consider contractors to be SHIT.

Mostly likely because you're occupying a position that could be filled by an in-house employee, and doing so at a lower salary. If the job you have was outsourced (to you), then what's keeping the company from outsourcing theirs?
It seems your problem with low pay goes back to your employer, not ***. The *** employees' problems go back to ***'s willingness to outsource, not you. Everyone is pointing the finger in the wrong direction, and management (on both sides) is laughing at you for taking the heat off of them.

I ran into this at my job years ago. The glaring difference is that I'm an onsite consultant for the product line that the customer uses. I've put it to the complainers very bluntly- they don't have the knowledge level to have my job. Luckily, I've been able to prove this to them on several occasions, and we all have a quite amicable relationship now.

 

[JonZ]

Again,pay is one concern among MANY.

Mostly dealing with their ATTITUDES towards us.Poor opinion leads to poor treatment.I think the comments about "uneducated,lazy and stupid" or "thats not my job, let a contractor do it"(both are exact quotes)says alot about their attitude towards us.

My g/f is a 20 year employee and a ex-manger. She works down the hall and sees frist hand alot of what goes on and thinks the problem is with managment and I agree.As I said this doesnt have to be a bad job. I think the people in management positions are making it that way.

I know my previous posts make me sound bitchy but I dont think common courtesy and consideration is too much to ask.

Todd, I do on site Tech Support for 2 sites.

I recently said to a employee "If u ran this place I wouldnt really complain and Id bend over backwards to help u"
He just smiled and word is there may be some changes in the new year.

We'll see.

 

[Todd Hochard]

I know my previous posts make me sound bitchy but I dont think common courtesy and consideration is too much to ask.

Of course, it's not. In that regard, I tend to give what I get, along with an "I don't appreciate that" vibe. It hasn't gotten me shit-canned. Yet.

 

[Jack Briggs]

Zen: You worked for U.S. Suzuki in Brea? The motorcycle division by any chance? Back when I was writing for a motorcycle magazine I had to go down to the Brea facility from time to time (to pick up test bikes, interview the management, etc.). They let me sit on Kevin Schwantz's 500cc GP roadracer once!

 

[Zen Butler]

Jack, I am still employed by a U.S Suzuki Franchise. The Brea facility would be my main PDC (Part Distibution Center).

 

[DaveF]

Sure, I could have two shiny new cars, instead of one (which is now 2.5 years old). Sure, I could have a 3000sq ft. home instead of 1500. BUT, that would leave me high and dry in the event of a job loss.

Good heavens Todd! Don't you know the US economy is built on consumer excess and debt?!? You're draggin' the whole place down, which is particularly mean of you during this recession. You're a very bad person. The only path to redemption is to get out there, squander your savings, and build some healthy debt!

(It's nice to see a another financially conservative person. I think in simple terms: savings good, debt bad. )

 

[Chris Lockwood]

> While being firing/laid off allows you to collect unemployment, it is a scar on your resume

I disagree. Why would you indicate on your resume that you were fired or laid off? And layoffs are no longer a bad mark against employees since they're so common.


> Mostly likely because you're occupying a position that could be filled by an in-house employee, and doing so at a lower salary.

Huh? Usually contractors cost more than employees, & I've not seen a situation where the contractors were paid LESS. They generally get a much higher pay rate, with the tradeoff of few or no benefits. For example, I've seen people offered a choice of $55k/year or $40/hr. Do the math- that's $25k/year difference in exchange for no benefits, which aren't worth that.


> When an employer terminates an employee and shows cause (i.e., poor performance, poor attendance, disruptive conduct, theft, etc.) no unemployment benefits are forthcoming.

I don't think you're right there, Jack, except the theft or other criminal or really bad behavior. But just general things like "poor performance" won't usually get your benefits denied. If anything, they tend to favor the worker when deciding these things. The way to go is to always file (unless you quit), because the worst they can do is deny the benefits, assuming you are truthful when you apply. (Hint: "They told me I was no longer needed. I don't really know why.") And even that relies on the company challenging them, which not all do.

Think about it- any employer can claim "poor performance" for anyone. What's the definition of that? It's such a subjective term. You could be working 20 hrs a week of unpaid overtime, but it's not enough to satisfy them.

I had a company challenge mine once, but they lost because they didn't file the challenge by the deadline. They actually backdated their required notice to me. The benefits lady was NOT happy about them falsifying documents. They didn't even get a chance to explain why I was terminated. What really sucked was that I had already gotten another job, which I had to take time off from to respond to that. I was only out of work 3 or 4 weeks.

 

[Jason_H]

Huh? Usually contractors cost more than employees

Um, NEGATIVE. I operate my own small business, a software company, and have worked as a contractor myself in the past. A contractor relationship is much more desireable from an employer's/buyer's perspective.

The employer does not have to pay any taxes on the contractor, that is the contractor's responsibility (that is a sizeable chunk of change, probably 10% of the worker's total payout in savings for the employer). Benefits can be very costly, especially health insurance. Employees are also guaranteed a somewhat better sense of security...it is far easier to put a contractor on "furlow" or scoot them out the door, where as with an employee you are on the hook for unemployment payments. With an employee, you are expected to supply them with materials such as a computer, a desk, etc. Contractors may have to supply more of their own equipment. This is why outsourcing is becoming increasingly popular.

I actually had a worker decide to switch from being an employee to a contractor because she wanted more flexibility in her hours (AKA didn't have the motivation to work a 40-hour week, we are very flexible on when you can come in and leave). The downside? She sorta shot herself in the foot...first priority for handing out work goes to the people who are working full time and I am already paying for.

 

[JonZ]

Jason is correct.

Lets say Company A hires Company B to supply them with employees. Company A pays company B $25 a hour for that employee. Its possible the employee will see only $15 of that money.The rest goes to Company B which is what keeps the company in business.

As said, this isnt a problem with Company A but actually with Company B who pays u every week. While cash is a gripe, its not my number 1 concern.

"it is far easier to put a contractor on "furlow" or scoot them out the door"

While this hasnt happened to me, it has happend in the company. People were recently forced to take 2 weeks off without pay.I know for a FACT that this was done for eomployee bonuses.There have also been cases of them letting people go and then rehiring contractors. They come back becuase they need a job.

Unfortunately as I said, I think this is the future. Companies will use contractors on site (theyll always need company employees for management),but its a known fact this company for instance,doesnt want any more employees. Theyd rather hire contractors - it will save them 100s of millions in the long haul(Perks and bonus, benefits,pensions)

Hopefully with some schooling I can move onto better things.
And I wish the others here unhappy at work the best of luck.

 

[Todd Hochard]

Good heavens Todd! Don't you know the US economy is built on consumer excess and debt?!?

Where's my head? I just put a down payment on Tiger Woods' home here in Isleworth, using corn futures as collateral. I'm sure it'll all work out.
Just doing my part for the machine.

Actually, in the last two months, I've bought new furniture for my daughter's bedroom, and new carpet for all the bedrooms (the only carpets in the house), so I'm not THAT miserly.

And, then, there's the DVD habit...

Dirty little secret- I have to carry an AMEX blue balance this month.:b

Todd

 

[Chris Lockwood]

> The employer does not have to pay any taxes on the contractor, that is the contractor's responsibility

Contractors are typically employees of contracting firms, who pay the employer taxes on them. Either way, the billing rate has to be high enough to cover the taxes. How do you explain contractors being billed at $80-100/hr or more working with employees making $40-60k? How is that cheaper? Especially when some companies bring in a contractor for years.


>Benefits can be very costly, especially health insurance.

Yeah, mine is $100/mo. That's less than $1/hr for someone working 40 hr weeks.


>Employees are also guaranteed a somewhat better sense of security...it is far easier to put a contractor on "furlow" or scoot them out the door, where as with an employee you are on the hook for unemployment payments.

Now we're getting funny. Employees have security? Most of the mass layoffs in the news are employees. Many companies with "hiring freezes" still bring in new contractors. And the employer DOES NOT pay the unemployment benefits. Are you sure you run a business?


>With an employee, you are expected to supply them with materials such as a computer, a desk, etc. Contractors may have to supply more of their own equipment.

What universe is that in? I've always had the company supply those things. The main difference is that the employees may have nicer cubes or some may have their own offices, but the idea that a contractor is going to bring his own PC into the office is laughable.

 

[DaveF]

I just put a down payment on Tiger Woods' home here in Isleworth, using corn futures as collateral

That's the spirit!

As for me, I'll start looking more seriously at the Porsche dealership, rather than Honda and Toyota, as I search for a new car

 

[Malcolm R]

That is incredibly cheap for health insurance coverage. Mine is over $300/mo and that's through an HMO (single-person coverage).

 

[Chris Lockwood]

Malcolm, you need to shop around. My policy is with Blue Cross & is not an HMO but a PPO (i.e. I can go anywhere for service but if it's on their preferred list they pay a higher %). Also that's just medical, no dental or vision coverage. It was $60 when I first got it, but it goes up a few bucks every year as I age.

 

[Kirk Gunn]

Our company uses over 50% contractors in it's IT department. Just terminated 8 folks - all employees (though there overall skill set was questionable).

And I just hired 2 contractors for my team....

 

[Malcolm R]

Ditto. Just basic medical for $250-300/mo. :frowning:

 

[Leila Dougan]

Yeah, mine is $100/mo. That's less than $1/hr for someone working 40 hr weeks.

You pay $100/month for medical insurance and your contracting company does not contribute one single cent for your insurance??? There is no way you can get private insurance for $100/month.

For my company I pay about $60/month and that is just coverage for me, but I know that my company contributes a few extra hundred dollars for me.

 

[Chris Lockwood]

> There is no way you can get private insurance for $100/month.

Yes there is. Do you want me to fax you the bill? This is direct from Blue Cross- has nothing to do with any employer or contracting company.

 

[Leila Dougan]

Yes there is. Do you want me to fax you the bill? This is direct from Blue Cross- has nothing to do with any employer or contracting company.

No no I believe you. But I still think there's got to be something different between what you have and what I can get. Either percentages paid, co-pays, level of coverage, etc. But the important thing is that it meets your needs.